Why is it the Pioneer BDP-23fd gets no love, but the Oppo and PS3 get mad RESPECT!

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

I am one of those. Is the video of the Oppo that much better than the 23fd?

On video nothing has surpassed it yet, as I said it is being rated to the Denon reference model. The audio is lacking if you are using analog outputs, however if you are using HDMI, there should be no difference, as long as you have a good receiver or pre/pro. If you are comparing analog audio on the Oppo to the Denon, the Denon blows it away. Now for the audio between the Oppo and the Pioneer, again HDMI shouldnt be any difference, but I would be the audio on the Pioneer via analog would best it, because of the DAC's which are pretty good. I am not sure what DAC's the Oppo is using, but I havent heard they are anything spectacular. So short story: Audio=Pioneer Video=Oppo in my opinion.

[sokrman14]

On a different topic, you can purchase the Oppo for $500, and send it to upgrade company, and they will enhance the audio to meet or exceed that of the Denon, for $1000. $1500 total with the player and upgrade. Basically the same quality player as the Denon for less than half the price. That should only be necessary if the Analog audio is important to you. The HDMI quality, because its digital, should make no difference. That is where the quality of your Pre/pro or receiver DAC's come into play.

[cembros]

For bd playback the oppo is no better than the pio. Upcomversion, the oppo takes the edge. As far as features the oppo does play sacd and DVD-a which the pio does not. The pio does stream music through the HMG which is a really awesome feature. Pqls is another great feature if you have a compatable pio amp. For analogue audio I def give the edge to the pio with the wolfsen dacs and burr brown dacs for 2 ch. The pio is a top notch player

[ManUtd]

Originally Posted by cembros

For bd playback the oppo is no better than the pio. Upcomversion, the oppo takes the edge. As far as features the oppo does play sacd and DVD-a which the pio does not. The pio does stream music through the HMG which is a really awesome feature. Pqls is another great feature if you have a compatable pio amp. For analogue audio I def give the edge to the pio with the wolfsen dacs and burr brown dacs for 2 ch. The pio is a top notch player

Great input and I think that the 23fd is for me. I have no need for sacd/dvd-a support as I already my 58av for that.

[Blove23]

Finally, its good to hear from those who have different players. I thought I was going a little crazy for awhile.. I have to give the Pioneer love because I'm a pioneer guy.

Everyone likes what they like and I usually upgrade my Blu-player every year and a half or so new technology is a *****. If you get what I'm saying. I don't know why I do it, but I do. Since I bought the Pioneer I don't have that itch any more for now. I'm all Pioneer out, but I need to work on some Pioneer Speakers and I'll be great!

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Blove23

Finally, its good to hear from those who have different players. I thought I was going a little crazy for awhile.. I have to give the Pioneer love because I'm a pioneer guy.

Everyone likes what they like and I usually upgrade my Blu-player every year and a half or so new technology is a *****. If you get what I'm saying. I don't know why I do it, but I do. Since I bought the Pioneer I don't have that itch any more for now. I'm all Pioneer out, but I need to work on some Pioneer Speakers and I'll be great!

I tried to be brand loyal but Pioneer hasn't ever made a BD player worthy of their plasma and AVR heritage. Until recently, they priced themselves out of the mass market and now their optical division is paying the price. Pioneer inhabited that niche of home theater reserved for the "enthusiast." Not too cheap to be taken lightly but not too expensive to be considered high end. Unfortunately, they were not able to build that cult following that their Kuros got and have now conceded that enthusiast spot to Oppo. It was not enough that they couldn't get good word of mouth for their BD players but they actually reversed with broken promises and long delays concerning their firmware (forums everywhere were unkind to the 05/51 players). Earlier efforts like the 94 and 95 players were ridiculed for being unnecessarily pricey and video standards not in line with what you paid. Here's hoping their AVR division fares much better.

[Blove23]

I will say the only down fall with the BDP-23fd is the BD-live and I will never use that and its not important to me! LOL

[HD Man]

Originally Posted by Blove23

I will say the only down fall with the BDP-23fd is the BD-live and I will never use that and its not important to me! LOL

I have absolutely no interest at all in BD-Live and it's not even a consideration when I look at players. I've only heard from friends who try to use it that it just causes problems/freeze up on their players, and they finally turned the feature off.

Anyone out there really enjoy BD-Live or do you just see it as a novelty?

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by Blove23

I will say the only down fall with the BDP-23fd is the BD-live and I will never use that and its not important to me! LOL

It has bd-live and might slow up the loading of certain movies...the first time. This is common though even on the ps3. I don't like the fact the 23fd isn't wireless for bdlive. You could make it that way with an adaptor but I don't use bd-live so it isn't a concern with me.

[Halcro 1]

[QUOTE=EWL5;2506538]I tried to be brand loyal but Pioneer hasn't ever made a BD player worthy of their plasma and AVR heritage. Until recently, they priced themselves out of the mass market ... Ummmm I think a Kuro is priced out of the mass market... LOL

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Halcro 1

Ummmm I think a Kuro is priced out of the mass market... LOL

You took my sentence out of context. Here it is again:

Originally Posted by EWL5

I tried to be brand loyal but Pioneer hasn't ever made a BD player worthy of their plasma and AVR heritage. Until recently, they priced themselves out of the mass market and now their optical division is paying the price. Pioneer inhabited that niche of home theater reserved for the "enthusiast." Not too cheap to be taken lightly but not too expensive to be considered high end. Unfortunately, they were not able to build that cult following that their Kuros got and have now conceded that enthusiast spot to Oppo. It was not enough that they couldn't get good word of mouth for their BD players but they actually reversed with broken promises and long delays concerning their firmware (forums everywhere were unkind to the 05/51 players). Earlier efforts like the 94 and 95 players were ridiculed for being unnecessarily pricey and video standards not in line with what you paid. Here's hoping their AVR division fares much better.

The bolded portion is only meant to describe their optical division (specifically BD players). This was a classic case of all talk but no walk (something Oppo has been able to back up...and then some).

A similar thing happened to their plasma division but much worse as often times, their MSRP were not even in the same ballpark as others. If memory serves, my Elite 1130 MSRP'd for $5500 back in 2006.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

On video nothing has surpassed it yet, as I said it is being rated to the Denon reference model. The audio is lacking if you are using analog outputs, however if you are using HDMI, there should be no difference, as long as you have a good receiver or pre/pro. If you are comparing analog audio on the Oppo to the Denon, the Denon blows it away. Now for the audio between the Oppo and the Pioneer, again HDMI shouldnt be any difference, but I would be the audio on the Pioneer via analog would best it, because of the DAC's which are pretty good. I am not sure what DAC's the Oppo is using, but I havent heard they are anything spectacular. So short story: Audio=Pioneer Video=Oppo in my opinion.

The Oppo BDP-83 actually uses two different sets of DAC's (Cirrus CS4398 for two-channel and Cirrus CS4382A for multi-channel analog output). These have been used in high end audio gear. Only problem is that DAC's don't tell the whole story. The path and power supply to those DAC's are not exactly high end. The Oppo could use some upsampling capability (like Denon's Advanced AL24) but doesn't have it.

Among my gear, the Oppo's CD playback is merely "ok."

[HD Man]

I have had my Pioneer 51FD and Elite O5 since August of last year and am very happy with the PQ/AQ these players output. Sure load times are not as fast as I would like, but they have improved dramatically since their initial release. The picture and audio I get from both of these players is A+++ in my book.

I think Pioneer released these players too soon, and the lack of DTS-MA, which came in a much later firmware upgrade was a major drag on these players. Oppo makes a great product, but I love my Pioneer players.

[awongshing]

I'll be looking to upgrade my blu ray player soon. I'll be looking into the Oppo, Pioneer BDP-23FD or the Denon DBP 2010. So it's not true everyone wants the PS3 and thinks it's the best. The PS3 a value at $299 with the hard drive, internet and gaming capabilities. I've tested the PS3 out against my older Panasonic 30 and the Panasonic looks and sounds better, but that is just my opinion.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by awongshing

I'll be looking to upgrade my blu ray player soon. I'll be looking into the Oppo, Pioneer BDP-23FD or the Denon DBP 2010. So it's not true everyone wants the PS3 and thinks it's the best. The PS3 a value at $299 with the hard drive, internet and gaming capabilities. I've tested the PS3 out against my older Panasonic 30 and the Panasonic looks and sounds better, but that is just my opinion.

IMHO, the PS3 should no longer be considered for BD player purchase unless you like to game on the side, don't care about DVD upconversion, or don't want the Oppo.

[EWL5]

Is it fair to say that most of you Pioneer BD owners who are satisfied with the loading/responsiveness of your player have never owned a PS3 or Oppo (ie. fast loading/responsive BD player)?

My understanding also is that the dreaded DVD layer change has not improved since the days of the 51/05/09 players.

[wafi]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Is it fair to say that most of you Pioneer BD owners who are satisfied with the loading/responsiveness of your player have never owned a PS3 or Oppo (ie. fast loading/responsive BD player)?

My understanding also is that the dreaded DVD layer change has not improved since the days of the 51/05/09 players.

My 51 obviously takes longer than my 320. The 320 is slower than the Oppo and the PS3 but nothing to fret about. I'm patient enough and I dont see the pressing needs for having a player start-up and go to the main menu in 3 seconds...but these are the days of instant gratification so go figure!

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by wafi

My 51 obviously takes longer than my 320. The 320 is slower than the Oppo and the PS3 but nothing to fret about. I'm patient enough and I dont see the pressing needs for having a player start-up and go to the main menu in 3 seconds...but these are the days of instant gratification so go figure!

Don't forget that we are coming off a fully cooked technology (DVD) and those players are of a certain response/load time. Newer players like the Oppo (and the PS3 for quite some time) are already there. Any slow BD player within the last year or so will stand out all the more. That's all I'm saying.

Players from Oppo, Samsung, LG, and JVC have somehow figured out how to get decent speed w/o the benefit of a CELL processor. I'm just curious as to why Pioneer and the rest still haven't figured it out.

[awongshing]

Originally Posted by EWL5

IMHO, the PS3 should no longer be considered for BD player purchase unless you like to game on the side, don't care about DVD upconversion, or don't want the Oppo.

I agree. I don't own a PS3 but I would like to get one and the reason I want it is for gaming purposes. It's nice that it can play blu rays as well but it would not be considered for primarily playing blu rays. I think it’s great product it’s just not the best blu ray player.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by EWL5

IMHO, the PS3 should no longer be considered for BD player purchase unless you like to game on the side, don't care about DVD upconversion, or don't want the Oppo.

Agreed