How to bi-amp onkyo 706

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by dewd

No, don't change to 80. The 150 was set when Audyssey measured the speaker in your room. I agree that it is high, but when measured that is all it could do.

That's not correct. I've had Audyssey measure the frequency range of speakers incorrectly before. It almost always sets my center at 120, but it can go down to 85, so I always manually change the crossover for my speakers to match their actual frequency range, or my preferred crossover level. There's no good reason to leave it where Audyssey sets it, if it happens to set it incorrectly. Audyssey is just a good starting point for the total calibration process for your speakers.

[dewd]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

That's not correct. I've had Audyssey measure the frequency range of speakers incorrectly before. It almost always sets my center at 120, but it can go down to 85, so I always manually change the crossover for my speakers to match their actual frequency range, or my preferred crossover level. There's no good reason to leave it where Audyssey sets it, if it happens to set it incorrectly.

Audyssey correctly measured your speaker IN YOUR ROOM. What the speaker does (or what the manufacturer claims) does not translate to your room. By turning it down, you not only lose the corrections below the Audyssey discovered value, but you potentially have a hole in your sound (if the speaker can't play below 150hz, why force it).

[dewd]

Originally Posted by Mordir

I hope it's a typo too but the xx7 series seems to be getting the same type of drop off. The xx5 was a beast series but after that they seem to have lost their power.

Really? That stinks. I was a huge Onkyo fan (I have a 705) due to the cost vs features they provided. Now, with the power issues and the less capable Audyssey EQ, I'm not so sure what I'll get next time....

[ryandubbz]

Originally Posted by dewd

Audyssey correctly measured your speaker IN YOUR ROOM. What the speaker does (or what the manufacturer claims) does not translate to your room. By turning it down, you not only lose the corrections below the Audyssey discovered value, but you potentially have a hole in your sound (if the speaker can't play below 150hz, why force it).

so if i should leave it the way audessy sets it, then your saying i should set my fronts back to full band?

[ryandubbz]

So heres whats left,

Should i change any of these settings?
Fronts 80hz
Center 150hz
surrounds 80hz

Should i not biamp the fronts?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by ryandubbz

So heres whats left,

Should i change any of these settings?
Fronts 80hz
Center 150hz
surrounds 80hz

Should i not biamp the fronts?

Bi-amping is a controversial topic at best. Some say there's no benefit at all while others say you'll get a small improvement in sound. If you have the speaker wire handy I suggest you try it for yourself and see what you think.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by dewd

Audyssey correctly measured your speaker IN YOUR ROOM. What the speaker does (or what the manufacturer claims) does not translate to your room. By turning it down, you not only lose the corrections below the Audyssey discovered value, but you potentially have a hole in your sound (if the speaker can't play below 150hz, why force it).

My room isn't going to change the frequency range that my speaker is physically capable of reproducing. Audyssey is just a starting point for calibration... but I would never just run Audyssey and call it done. In my case, it sets my mains and my side surrounds to full, and turns on double bass.... which IMO.... sounds pretty bad. After running Audyssey, I change my crossover settings to match my personal preferences, and then use an SPL meter to more accurately match my individual speaker levels.

Now if I had one of those really nice external Audyssey equalizers, it might be a whole other story... but the very basic version that comes in my receiver is definitely not good enough to be the be all end all of calibration. I've tried using just Audyssey. I've tried setting all of my settings manually. For me, running Audyssey and then tweaking it to my personal preferences is definitely the best solution.

[jruc03]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

My room isn't going to change the frequency range that my speaker is physically capable of reproducing. Audyssey is just a starting point for calibration... but I would never just run Audyssey and call it done. In my case, it sets my mains and my side surrounds to full, and turns on double bass.... which IMO.... sounds pretty bad. After running Audyssey, I change my crossover settings to match my personal preferences, and then use an SPL meter to more accurately match my individual speaker levels.

Now if I had one of those really nice external Audyssey equalizers, it might be a whole other story... but the very basic version that comes in my receiver is definitely not good enough to be the be all end all of calibration. I've tried using just Audyssey. I've tried setting all of my settings manually. For me, running Audyssey and then tweaking it to my personal preferences is definitely the best solution.

+1

I noticed with my Pioneer Elite the MCCAC got some of the decibel levels wrong and had to tweak mine using a SPL meter which got me the results that I was looking for.

[dewd]

Actually, your room is the biggest influence on what you speakers can do. Don't belive me.. Try this. Measure a speaker 5 feet from a wall and then measure the same speaker 1 foot from the wall. At 1 foot the speaker will go lower.

Second, the AVR manufacturer's rules dictate large and small. Older Onkyo's set your speakers to large if Audyssey detected they could play below 80hz. Newer ones use 40hz. You should always change this to small and turn double bass off (if you have a sub).

Thirdly, don't always assume your SPL meter is better than the mic that came with the AVR.

[dewd]

Originally Posted by ryandubbz

So heres whats left,

Should i change any of these settings?
Fronts 80hz
Center 150hz
surrounds 80hz

Should i not biamp the fronts?

The settings look fine. Replacing the center would be my next priority.

As for biamping, if the receiver really is losing as much power when running 7 channels, then biamping is a bad idea. You would be losing over half the power to your speakers.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by dewd

Actually, your room is the biggest influence on what you speakers can do. Don't belive me.. Try this. Measure a speaker 5 feet from a wall and then measure the same speaker 1 foot from the wall. At 1 foot the speaker will go lower.

Second, the AVR manufacturer's rules dictate large and small. Older Onkyo's set your speakers to large if Audyssey detected they could play below 80hz. Newer ones use 40hz. You should always change this to small and turn double bass off (if you have a sub).

Thirdly, don't always assume your SPL meter is better than the mic that came with the AVR.

They are an influence on how my speakers sound... not what they can do. The capable frequency range of my speaker isn't going to change because of the room I put it in..... which frequencies are maximized or minimized by different placements may well change.

If you change any of the settings after running Audyssey... then you are changing/losing some of the corrections... no? The question is do the benefits gained by changing those settings outweigh the corrections lost? The only way to find out is to try it and see what sounds better to your ear.

I don't assume that an SPL is better. I tried it for myself, and found manually setting my speaker levels sounded much better. Even my wife noticed a difference.... which she almost never does.

[ryandubbz]

Originally Posted by dewd

The settings look fine. Replacing the center would be my next priority.

As for biamping, if the receiver really is losing as much power when running 7 channels, then biamping is a bad idea. You would be losing over half the power to your speakers.

So if i un bi-amp the fronts and re run audessy would my speakers sound better?

[dewd]

No, the room and placement will change what your speakers can actaully do (in the room they are in). Remember the ratings for your speakers were done at 1 meter is a specially designed room. Even then the number are sometimes 'fudged'. Look at the +/- and the distortion to see what is really going on.

When you change the settings after running Audyssey, you are only losing the benifits if you change the crossover lower. Changing the trims or changing the crossover up will have no impact.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by ryandubbz

So if i un bi-amp the fronts and re run audessy would my speakers sound better?

You are going to be the best judge of that. Your best bet is to try it both ways and see what sounds better to your ear.

[dewd]

Originally Posted by ryandubbz

So if i un bi-amp the fronts and re run audessy would my speakers sound better?

Maybe

Try it and let us know what you think.

[ryandubbz]

I know, but it is true that bi amping lowers the watts per speaker? If it is true then un biamping would be the best? right

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by dewd

No, the room and placement will change what your speakers can actaully do (in the room they are in). Remember the ratings for your speakers were done at 1 meter is a specially designed room. Even then the number are sometimes 'fudged'. Look at the +/- and the distortion to see what is really going on.

When you change the settings after running Audyssey, you are only losing the benifits if you change the crossover lower. Changing the trims or changing the crossover up will have no impact.

We may be saying similar things in different ways here. A speaker has a set response range that is not changable. The placement of a speaker may affect the audibility of certain frequencies within that range.

Yes.... you may be losing some of the benefits of correction by lowering the crossover range, but reintroducing the lower frequencies back into the sound field may outweigh that loss.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by ryandubbz

I know, but it is true that bi amping lowers the watts per speaker? If it is true then un biamping would be the best? right

Not necessarily. Watts per speaker is not nearly as important as many people think. You have to almost double the watts per speaker just to get a sound increase of only a couple of decibels. One of the benefits of bi-wiring in this case could be cleaner sound, as once you bi-amp, the front speaker outputs will only be sending the lower frequencies, and the rear speaker outs will only be sending the higher frequencies (or vice versa, consult your manual.)

[dewd]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

We may be saying similar things in different ways here. A speaker has a set response range that is not changable. The placement of a speaker may affect the audibility of certain frequencies within that range.

Yes.... you may be losing some of the benefits of correction by lowering the crossover range, but reintroducing the lower frequencies back into the sound field may outweigh that loss.

But if the speaker can't go below a certain frequency in your room, aren't you creating a hole by forcing it? Where does that sound from that frequency come from?

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by dewd

But if the speaker can't go below a certain frequency in your room, aren't you creating a hole by forcing it? Where does that sound from that frequency come from?

By that same token... if Audyssey has not measured correctly... you are needlessly leaving out frequencies. I've had measurements change from run to run without changing a single thing in the room or placement... so you can't convince me that Audyssey never makes errors in it's measurements.