Why is it the Pioneer BDP-23fd gets no love, but the Oppo and PS3 get mad RESPECT!

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

Yes, they appear to be very similar. They might have a few small differences, like the 05/51 had.

Edit: Just saw your edit. I remember reading in the AVS forum that speed was improved via firmware update.

Second Edit: Here's the link to the thread at AVS, post #3. Firmware 3.34.

Thanks for the update. Chris Walker was a major AVS insider/contributor but he stopped posting recently. Hopefully he is still employed at Pioneer despite the realignment of the optical dept.

[Blacklac]

It's amazing how people can forget how long it took the PS3 to be what it is today.

There are alot of people who just don't understand, or care, what these top notch players do. All the extra features (picture controls and such). Granted these Pioneer and other respectable units may be a little slower in getting the most up-to-date gimicks, but atleast they do it right.

I will gladly take a Pioneer 51/05/23/09 over a 3D, Wifi, 2.0, streaming, etc... inexpensive player from Sony or Panasonic anydays. Quality picture and sound is what I want. Maybe a cheapo unit for the bedroom...

I never understood the complaint with having SPEED on a bluray player. Turn it on, get a drink/snack/go to the bathroom/whatever, comeback and it's ready. ZOMG, i wasted 30seconds of my life!!!11!1! I guarantee you have wasted much more than that on other things in your day.

Thank god Oppo was making quality players when Bluray came out.. wait... Oh yeah, it took them like 3 years... (and yes, I like Oppo)

/rant

[adrian42677]

Originally Posted by Blacklac

It's amazing how people can forget how long it took the PS3 to be what it is today.

There are alot of people who just don't understand, or care, what these top notch players do. All the extra features (picture controls and such). Granted these Pioneer and other respectable units may be a little slower in getting the most up-to-date gimicks, but atleast they do it right.

I will gladly take a Pioneer 51/05/23/09 over a 3D, Wifi, 2.0, streaming, etc... inexpensive player from Sony or Panasonic anydays. Quality picture and sound is what I want. Maybe a cheapo unit for the bedroom...

I never understood the complaint with having SPEED on a bluray player. Turn it on, get a drink/snack/go to the bathroom/whatever, comeback and it's ready. ZOMG, i wasted 30seconds of my life!!!11!1! I guarantee you have wasted much more than that on other things in your day.

Thank god Oppo was making quality players when Bluray came out.. wait... Oh yeah, it took them like 3 years... (and yes, I like Oppo)

/rant

I remember having a discussion with you regarding my hate for the Pioneer 51 and how I didn't like certain features of it. Having tried a Panasonic 30, Panasonic 35, Sony 350, Sony 550, Samsung 1400, Samsung 1500, JVC BD1, Pioneer 51, PS3, Elite 05 and Elite 23, I have confess my love for the Pioneers. The PS3 is great but I want it only for gaming and not a BD player especially with all of the drive dying that's been happening lately. I have an original 60GB so I want it to last for PS2 playability as I don't need another console in my system. I thought I wanted something with speed and internet connectivity but internet connectivity has been a sham except for firmware updates which I can do via CD-RW. The speed doesn't bother me anymore as like others have said, you can get snacks, take dogs out to pee, etc. The reason I chose the 05 over the 23 was cost. I got it for less than $200 and it has better Wolfson DACs which is outstanding when listening to CDs. Like I said I thought I wanted ethernet but it has been overrated. I could get an Oppo but have no need for the other stuff so I would be paying more for stuff I will never use.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Blacklac

It's amazing how people can forget how long it took the PS3 to be what it is today.

There are alot of people who just don't understand, or care, what these top notch players do. All the extra features (picture controls and such). Granted these Pioneer and other respectable units may be a little slower in getting the most up-to-date gimicks, but atleast they do it right.

I will gladly take a Pioneer 51/05/23/09 over a 3D, Wifi, 2.0, streaming, etc... inexpensive player from Sony or Panasonic anydays. Quality picture and sound is what I want. Maybe a cheapo unit for the bedroom...

I never understood the complaint with having SPEED on a bluray player. Turn it on, get a drink/snack/go to the bathroom/whatever, comeback and it's ready. ZOMG, i wasted 30seconds of my life!!!11!1! I guarantee you have wasted much more than that on other things in your day.

Thank god Oppo was making quality players when Bluray came out.. wait... Oh yeah, it took them like 3 years... (and yes, I like Oppo)

/rant

If you discount the format war, it was more like 1 year before Oppo came up with a player. Not bad considering that Oppo entered the DVD game 8 years after the DVD format started. They're ahead of the game now!

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by adrian42677

I remember having a discussion with you regarding my hate for the Pioneer 51 and how I didn't like certain features of it. Having tried a Panasonic 30, Panasonic 35, Sony 350, Sony 550, Samsung 1400, Samsung 1500, JVC BD1, Pioneer 51, PS3, Elite 05 and Elite 23, I have confess my love for the Pioneers. The PS3 is great but I want it only for gaming and not a BD player especially with all of the drive dying that's been happening lately. I have an original 60GB so I want it to last for PS2 playability as I don't need another console in my system. I thought I wanted something with speed and internet connectivity but internet connectivity has been a sham except for firmware updates which I can do via CD-RW. The speed doesn't bother me anymore as like others have said, you can get snacks, take dogs out to pee, etc. The reason I chose the 05 over the 23 was cost. I got it for less than $200 and it has better Wolfson DACs which is outstanding when listening to CDs. Like I said I thought I wanted ethernet but it has been overrated. I could get an Oppo but have no need for the other stuff so I would be paying more for stuff I will never use.

What about the 51 player didn't you like? The 05 that you bought is virtually the same player aside from cosmetics, longer warranty, and better video DAC.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Blove23

See, I dont understand what you are saying in your comment. You gave a list of 3 things that in the future you wished that the Pioneer could do to make it the best blu-ray player.

You said the Pioneer 320 does not do reverse 3:2 pulldown, but in the Home Theater Magazine review its says it does. Now which one is it, Does it do 3:2 pulldown or does it not?

If you made a mistake I understand, but as I was explained before people like to say things that are not true or give wrong information. Hey it opinion, but the Pioneer's 320/23fd do reverse 3:2 pulldown... If it was the older models I might understand, but the newer models do it...

The instruction manual and all reviews for the Pioneer BDP-320 do not mention a DVD feature that will do reverse 3:2 pulldown. The Panasonics, flagship Denon, and OPPO have a feature that does reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD. The Home Theater test you are mentioning that tests for 3:2 is not the same as having a option in the menu. If the Pioneer does 3:2 pulldown for DVD there would be a option in the menu.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The instruction manual and all reviews for the Pioneer BDP-320 do not mention a DVD feature that will do reverse 3:2 pulldown. The Panasonics, flagship Denon, and OPPO have a feature that does reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD. The Home Theater test you are mentioning that tests for 3:2 is not the same as having a option in the menu. If the Pioneer does 3:2 pulldown for DVD there would be a option in the menu.

Are you confusing 3:2 pulldown with 24fps for DVD? Any BD player worth its salt will have 3:2 pulldown as a minimum (it does not need to be an option) since most DVD's are film-based. However, the more questionable 24fps feature for DVD is found only on a handful of BD players (Pioneer is not one of them).

[Canada]

Oppo BD 83 got consumer reports highest recommendation. Although the display on the front of mine does not work, but as some one who used to use a PS3 for Blu ray play back I am used to it.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Canada

Oppo BD 83 got consumer reports highest recommendation. Although the display on the front of mine does not work, but as some one who used to use a PS3 for Blu ray play back I am used to it.

Let Oppo know your display is out. They will take care of you. You even have the option to buy the extended warranty anytime within your first year of ownership.

[adrian42677]

Originally Posted by EWL5

What about the 51 player didn't you like? The 05 that you bought is virtually the same player aside from cosmetics, longer warranty, and better video DAC.

I posted them but I'll type them again:

slowness
not ethernet
and I didn't put DTS-HD MA as my receiver could do it but I still wanted the ability to internally decode it.

Then I said after trying all of the other ones I realized that the things I didn't like didn't make a difference to me once I tried the other players which had them. That's why I went back to the Pioneer as the better picture, sound and build quality + the addition of DTS-HD MA as well as the great price changed my mind.

[TwoTwo]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

ya i dont need sacd or dvda. i just watch blu movies and sometimes a reg dvd. but i heard the upscale on the pioneer 23fd was fantastic. not sure of the oppo, never saw one in action yet.

Yup, reading from the recently posted review by the Home Theater Magazine it sounded like the picture quality rivals the reference Oppo. It also praise the audio quality, however didn't compare it to the Oppo.

The way I see it, for about half the price of the Oppo, you'll get a comparable quality blu ray unit discounting the SACD, DVD-A, load time and DVD upscaling (Oppo is the best in this). Shoot, I'm beginning to sound like a Pioneer dealer. Kidding

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Are you confusing 3:2 pulldown with 24fps for DVD? Any BD player worth its salt will have 3:2 pulldown as a minimum (it does not need to be an option) since most DVD's are film-based. However, the more questionable 24fps feature for DVD is found only on a handful of BD players (Pioneer is not one of them).

I was calling the DVD 24fps feature "reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD". Perhaps that was the wrong terminology to use since it sounds similar to the 3:2 HD and 3:2 SD tests that almost all Blu-ray players past.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I was calling the DVD 24fps feature "reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD". Perhaps that was the wrong terminology to use since it sounds similar to the 3:2 HD and 3:2 SD tests that almost all Blu-ray players past.

DVD 24fps should not be a deal breaker for most people. Although it works, it is highly dependent on the DVD to be mastered correctly. One bad edit and the judder will be back (most people blaming the machine when it was the studio's fault). Your display would also need to be capable of accepting some multiple of 24 (ie. 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, etc).

[EWL5]

Can owners of a 23 player and PQLS-compatible AVR tell me if the PQLS feature is defeatable? Can you hear the difference if PQLS is off and you are sending PCM over HDMI after the 23 has decoded the audio?

[edubb5]

YES. YES and YES! I use to have a ONKYO 876 and sold it to get the SC-27 and before I sold my Onkyo. I checked out Black hawk down on Blu Ray with a 5.1 PCM track. And it sound great on my ONKYO! Now that I have the Pioneer SC-27 with the 23fd. The Pioneer sound better with the PQLS engaged. The sound is more crisp and powerful. I LOVE THE 23fd Player And I work for Best buy, so I go threw Blu ray players all the time. And the 23fd is the best....

[prerich]

Originally Posted by edubb5

YES. YES and YES! I use to have a ONKYO 876 and sold it to get the SC-27 and before I sold my Onkyo. I checked out Black hawk down on Blu Ray with a 5.1 PCM track. And it sound great on my ONKYO! Now that I have the Pioneer SC-27 with the 23fd. The Pioneer sound better with the PQLS engaged. The sound is more crisp and powerful. I LOVE THE 23fd Player And I work for Best buy, so I go threw Blu ray players all the time. And the 23fd is the best....

My crisp meter just went off again (inside audio joke - see the tread on crisp sound).

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by edubb5

YES. YES and YES! I use to have a ONKYO 876 and sold it to get the SC-27 and before I sold my Onkyo. I checked out Black hawk down on Blu Ray with a 5.1 PCM track. And it sound great on my ONKYO! Now that I have the Pioneer SC-27 with the 23fd. The Pioneer sound better with the PQLS engaged. The sound is more crisp and powerful. I LOVE THE 23fd Player And I work for Best buy, so I go threw Blu ray players all the time. And the 23fd is the best....

Have you tried listening to it without the PQLS engaged? The SC-27 could process the sound differently.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by edubb5

YES. YES and YES! I use to have a ONKYO 876 and sold it to get the SC-27 and before I sold my Onkyo. I checked out Black hawk down on Blu Ray with a 5.1 PCM track. And it sound great on my ONKYO! Now that I have the Pioneer SC-27 with the 23fd. The Pioneer sound better with the PQLS engaged. The sound is more crisp and powerful. I LOVE THE 23fd Player And I work for Best buy, so I go threw Blu ray players all the time. And the 23fd is the best....

I'd rather hear about comparisons b/w the SC-27 with PQLS OFF vs ON rather than the SC-27 against your previous Onkyo 876. Comparing jitter b/w two different AVR's w/completely different signal paths, DSP, DAC's, etc. is meaningless.

Edit: If you work at BB, then the Denon A1UDCI is probably a special order for you and not available in the store. The Denon's version of PQLS (DenonLink4) could probably give the Pioneers a run for their money with a compatible DL4 AVR. The employee discount on the A1UDCI must be tremendous.

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by EWL5

I'd rather hear about comparisons b/w the SC-27 with PQLS OFF vs ON rather than the SC-27 against your previous Onkyo 876. Comparing jitter b/w two different AVR's w/completely different signal paths, DSP, DAC's, etc. is meaningless.

Edit: If you work at BB, then the Denon A1UDCI is probably a special order for you and not available in the store. The Denon's version of PQLS (DenonLink4) could probably give the Pioneers a run for their money with a compatible DL4 AVR. The employee discount on the A1UDCI must be tremendous.

Yes we do! ANd In the Mag room. Pioneer's and Onkyo's is the top ones. But the Blu ray player Onkyo provides is ugly

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

Have you tried listening to it without the PQLS engaged? The SC-27 could process the sound differently.

I will see when I get home.