Can we PLEASE stop letting the 'HD DVD brigade' dictate our discussions?

[JadedRaverLA]

This has been bothering me a lot lately. As everyone here knows, many other online forums are made up of a small number of VERY vocal HD DVD advocates. Whether they're paid shills, blind fanboys, or just delusional is a debate for another time, but for now I wanted to make one big point. We are letting 'the other side' dictate the debate topics.

Let me give you a few examples of topics that have been discussed to no end around here...

BD+ cracked. Spin: Supposedly Fox will stop releasing again or go neutral. Fact: In reality, the crack hasn't been released to the wild, and there's no indication that the overall system is broken, just the implementation on the first releases.

No Profile 1.1 players yet. Spin: We don't have a 'finalized spec,' according to the HD DVD fans. Fact: I haven't heard a ton of people (here or elsewhere) proclaiming that PIP-commentary is the feature that will save high-definition media. It's a goofy feature that will be here when it gets here.

Players are too expensive. Spin: No one will ever buy one and our format is doomed. Fact: BD players have always been more expensive, and it's done pretty well for us so far. Also, most of us own players already, so what difference does it make to us?

Fox titles unplayable. Spin: Fox titles allegedly didn't work on ANY standalone player, and they might never work. Fact: Three players had problems initially. Two (the Samsung players) received updates within a week or so, and the final one (on the LG) is due soon.

Blu-ray discs are expensive to produce and the yield rate is lower than HD DVD. Spin: Studios actually make more money selling HD DVD's because they're cheaper to produce. Fact: Nobody knows what the real defect rate is for HD DVD since a significant number of their titles don't play correctly on any of the HD DVD players. That's a far more significant problem than whatever slight cost advantage HD DVD may have.

So what's my point: simply to show how much time we waste (on here and on other forums) debating the HD DVD camp's 'talking points' instead of showing the superiority of Blu-ray. Don't beleive me? Do a search for any of the above topics and see how many topics/posts you come up with related to them. Now, perform a similar search for the below topics:

• HD DVD doesn't have enough space for lossless audio
• HD DVD doesn't have a high enough bitrate to produce the quality of many Blu-ray exclusive releases
• Blu-ray has a huge advantage in terms of support -- from content providers, CE companies, the PC industry, etc.
• Blu-ray is designed as a recordable format, with fully functional PC burners, camcorders, and settop recorders available from many manufacturers
• Blu-ray will be getting nearly every major new release in Q4, while HD DVD will only be getting around half
• AACS is hacked... and there is no additional protection available on HD DVDs
• Blu-ray software has outsold HD DVD 2:1 year-to-date in the U.S. and has essentially wiped out HD DVD in many other countries

Notice how much more frequently the FUD topics get discussed than the topics that portray Blu-ray in a positive light? It's time we all got on the same page and show how great our product is, rather than continuously debating the FUD produced by the other side.

<Gets off soapbox.>

[roysee]

You have a valid point. But one thing you have to allow is that there will continually be newbies joining this forum (and this is a good thing), and all of the above you've mentioned will probably be what they want to discuss initially.

I don't think we can expect them to dig into historical discussions to find answers.

It'd probably frustrating for you to see the same topics discussed over and over again, but you can ignore these quite easily, right?

Just my two cent

[ArkGuy]

I have a stupid idea - why don't people on a discussion board discuss what they wish to discuss. If you don't like what someone says, refute it or move on to a thread you like better. It's not complicated.

Do you want to read through a bunch of cheerleading drival or actual discussion? If, for example, you disagree with the notion that BD player manufacuturers need to get their prices lower, make your pitch for high prices or move on to a different thread where everyone sings the praises of Blu-ray uncritically and mindlessly. Goodness knows there are plenty to choose from.

[DealsR4theDevil]

good post, but I think we are all to geeky to ignore any negative comments, lol. Sad but True.

[Maxell]

good points. But there will always be hd fans having counter-points in some way. I bet none of these except price is even discussed in 99% of home theater sales discusion (between salesmen and cutomer)

[Seretur]

I'm not even worried about HD DVD anymore.

Sure, the rabid supporters of the format are a curious bunch, and a nice case study of geekdom dovetailing into extremism when confronted by facts. Also, there is a lot of coordinated spinning going on.

Does this change the fact that Blu-ray is the de facto high-def format for the next decade? No, and that fact is vastly more apparent from abroad -- it's only in the US that HD DVD is a factor, and only there that it can attempt to do some damage to the worldwide acceptance of Blu-ray, chiefly through major US studio support.

But it's still not enough to cause concern, not to me. Seriously, I check their spin out just to see how deluded it can possibly get.

[SS316SRV]

All that stuff by the OP is real good, but it is all common knowledge. I have no problem discussing what HD DVD is doing or saying. The best way to win an argument or debate, is to know and anticipate the otherside's talking points. It is simple. By discussing and knowing what the HD DVD camp is saying about us is great, it is like knowing their playbook. Newbies can ask the same questions if they want, that is why they are newbies. Also, if we don't talk about the format war, and what HD DVD is saying, there is only so much else to discuss. I can only answer so many "speaker suggestions" or "Dolby HD v. PCM" threads. Plus, hearing the FUD being spun on other forums is the funniest part of my day. It is like a joke that never gets unfunny.

PS: Keep asking technical questions because there are a lot of really knowledgable people here with a lot of good information. It is important to know the difference between PCM and Dolby HD ect.

[Rustmonsteru]

Fear is the oldest and deepest human response so there are always going to be a large measure of people crying that the sky is falling. Nothing will change till there is only one format and people can rest safely in that solidarity.

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by Rustmonsteru

Fear is the oldest and deepest human response so there are always going to be a large measure of people crying that the sky is falling. Nothing will change till there is only one format and people can rest safely in that solidarity.

I have noticed that there we have been spreading a lot of FUD onto ourselves lately. I just think that we need to point out that it is FUD. There are ways to discuss bad things positively (not spin), like how to improve, why it is happening, ect. We has intelligent people need to be better than just screaming that world is coming to and end.

"Fire and brimstone coming from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! 40 years of darkness! Earthquakes Volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!"

[rpneuss]

Can we please stop letting the "stop letting the 'HD DVD brigade' dictate our discussions" dictate our discussions if you know what I mean. The fact is that they are our rival and we need to do everything in our power to get more movies onto our format. I'm not a senior member or anything, but why can't we discuss what we feel like discussing. I'm tired of people telling me what I should and shouldn't engage in for conversation. Like an astute poster said above, if you don't like the discussion then don't participate. It's simple.

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

Can we please stop letting the "stop letting the 'HD DVD brigade' dictate our discussions" dictate our discussions if you know what I mean. The fact is that they are our rival and we need to do everything in our power to get more movies onto our format. I'm not a senior member or anything, but why can't we discuss what we feel like discussing. I'm tired of people telling me what I should and shouldn't engage in for conversation. Like an astute poster said above, if you don't like the discussion then don't participate. It's simple.

There are certain things that are off limits.

[Imakida]

Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA

Players are too expensive. Spin: No one will ever buy one and our format is doomed. Fact: BD players have always been more expensive, and it's done pretty well for us so far. Also, most of us own players already, so what difference does it make to us?

First, sorry for my english cause I'm a french canadian! Second, this is my first post here but I come everyday to read the news about blu-ray (Yeah I'm a blu all the way!) Third, I listened to 28 weeks later for the first time yesterday with my girlfriend and it was a total blast!

Ok now, my point is that is see this argument very often about the price and I want to add something to your answer. We all know that to experience hi-def, you must at least have a HDTV or a hi-end A/V receiver. Both of them are expensive so: 1) if someone want to invest in either a HDTV ou a receiver, he'll want a have the best out of it and we all know that the blu-ray as more potential (especially for the sound) 2) If he as the money for a HDTV or an A/V, he probably also have the money for a blu-ray! So I think that the price is not a valid argument to predict the victory!

[Go Blu]

Originally Posted by Imakida

First, sorry for my english cause I'm a french canadian! Second, this is my first post here but I come everyday to read the news about blu-ray (Yeah I'm a blu all the way!) Third, I listened to 28 weeks later for the first time yesterday with my girlfriend and it was a total blast!

Ok now, my point is that is see this argument very often about the price and I want to add something to your answer. We all know that to experience hi-def, you must at least have a HDTV or a hi-end A/V receiver. Those cost much and 1) if someone want to invest in either a HDTV ou a receiver, he'll want a have the best out of it and we all know that the blu-ray as more potential (especially for the sound) 2) If he as the money for a HDTV or an A/V, he probably also have the money for a blu-ray! So I think that the price is not a valid argument to predict the victory!

WELCOME!!!! and thank you for your support!
You are correct everyone has their reasons for going Blu.
There is nothing wrong with future-proofing your movie collection.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

There are certain things that are off limits.

I guess I should have said as long as it follows forum rules. Good point. IMO, telling posters to stop doing X,Y,Z when what they're talking about is within forum rules should be against forum policy but what do I know.

[thrlride]

Originally Posted by Imakida

First, sorry for my english cause I'm a french canadian! Second, this is my first post here but I come everyday to read the news about blu-ray (Yeah I'm a blu all the way!) Third, I listened to 28 weeks later for the first time yesterday with my girlfriend and it was a total blast!

Ok now, my point is that is see this argument very often about the price and I want to add something to your answer. We all know that to experience hi-def, you must at least have a HDTV or a hi-end A/V receiver. Both of them are expensive so: 1) if someone want to invest in either a HDTV ou a receiver, he'll want a have the best out of it and we all know that the blu-ray as more potential (especially for the sound) 2) If he as the money for a HDTV or an A/V, he probably also have the money for a blu-ray! So I think that the price is not a valid argument to predict the victory!

Welcome to the forum.

This would be true except I'm sure the most sold hdtv's on the market are the cheapest they can find. Isn't it true that vizio just passed or is close to being the biggest seller now? I doubt an integra or other high-end receiver is sold more than a cheap jvc. Then again the average vizio owner probably isn't even in the market for hd media anyway.

[owa]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

I guess I should have said as long as it follows forum rules. Good point. IMO, telling posters to stop doing X,Y,Z when what they're talking about is within forum rules should be against forum policy but what do I know.

The problem with it (imo) is that this place has been kind of a safe-haven for blu-ray fans. A place where they don't have to put up with the constant FUD from HD DVD supporters that you find just about everywhere else. That seems to be changing so it's only natural, imo, that some get bent out of shape by it. The people that don't mind going to sites like AVS, hidefdigest, etc. to argue with HD DVD fans probably don't mind it. But, people that left places like that to get away from it all, trying to find a site where they could discuss their preferred format without having to constantly defend it, might not like it. Anyway, just my opinion...

[Rheologuy]

My thanks to the OP for a helpful summary of the situation. May have been old news to some, but I am still learning and I appreciated the situational overview.

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by ArkGuy

I have a stupid idea - why don't people on a discussion board discuss what they wish to discuss. If you don't like what someone says, refute it or move on to a thread you like better. It's not complicated.

I have no desire to tell you what to discuss or not to discuss. However, the 'sky is falling' attitude on other discussion boards has been brought here. I was simply trying to get people to see that we (as Blu-ray fans across the web) aren't doing much for our format, when most of our discussions center around the attacks of HD DVD fans. I don't think any topic should be off-limits, but for the most part these discussions aren't even really discussions... they're a way to spread FUD plain and simple.

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

I have noticed that there we have been spreading a lot of FUD onto ourselves lately. I just think that we need to point out that it is FUD. There are ways to discuss bad things positively (not spin), like how to improve, why it is happening, ect.

Quoted for truth.

Originally Posted by owa

The problem with it (imo) is that this place has been kind of a safe-haven for blu-ray fans. A place where they don't have to put up with the constant FUD from HD DVD supporters that you find just about everywhere else. That seems to be changing so it's only natural, imo, that some get bent out of shape by it. The people that don't mind going to sites like AVS, hidefdigest, etc. to argue with HD DVD fans probably don't mind it. But, people that left places like that to get away from it all, trying to find a site where they could discuss their preferred format without having to constantly defend it, might not like it. Anyway, just my opinion...

And my opinion, too. And this board is more than just a forum... in fact, given it's url, people often mistake this for the 'official' Blu-ray site. And when people are searching for info on Blu-ray, this is often the main site they find. If we are spending all of our time getting worked into a frenzy over the latest FUD, it seems far more likely that we'll turn away potential new members, who will quickly reach the conclusion that they want nothing to do with either format until the 'war' is over.

Originally Posted by Rheologuy

My thanks to the OP for a helpful summary of the situation. May have been old news to some, but I am still learning and I appreciated the situational overview.

No problem. As you can see, I sparked a fair bit of controversy here, but my main reason for pointing out the attacks was so that new members could see how and why certain discussions have become so prevalent, and to try to get people from working themselves into a frenzy over them.