who here has an integrated scaler in their system? - Blu-ray Forum

SKRUhddvd · 10-30-2007, 03:09 PM

does anyone here use a scaler to upconvert their other video equipment to 1080p. in particular a DVDO scaler. like many here i cant watch satellite or my laser disc's anymore, the picture quality just does not compare. i have no problem watching upconverted sd dvd on my bd player. i was wondering how effective are these scalers and are they worth the price? p.s. i should mention the screen size is 120 to 133" using a sharp xv-z12000mkII projector.

cpgator · 10-30-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKRUhddvd

does anyone here use a scaler to upconvert their other video equipment to 1080p. in particular a DVDO scaler. like many here i cant watch satellite or my laser disc's anymore, the picture quality just does not compare. i have no problem watching upconverted sd dvd on my bd player. i was wondering how effective are these scalers and are they worth the price? p.s. i should mention the screen size is 120 to 133" using a sharp xv-z12000mkII projector.

I used to use a DVDO HD+, but sold that and now us my processor to do my scaling. They do make an improvement, but nothing too dramatic -satellite/cable will never look as good as HD.

This site is also probably not the best for these questions - I would try AVS.

Rustmonsteru · 10-30-2007, 03:59 PM

I've had severl iterations of DVDO. The scaling quality is great and it offers a lot of options to control the picture in general, but it depends on what you're sourcing to it.

Example: I have an Oppo region free upscaling dvd player with Faroudjia on it and I have a Denon 1910. I get better upscaling from the DVDO using the Denon set to interlaced than I do from the Oppo on regardless of settings because the DVDO deinterlaces and scales the less processed interlaced image from the Denon better. The Oppo fights things imo.

I don't own a standalone BD players so I'll compare the PS3's upscaling:
I'd say the PS3 does a great job but it doesn't have the specific features and capabilities to handle individual cases or specific artifacts the way the DVDO does. Often the PS3's upscaled picture can look soft by comparison which for some people looks better.

So I guess my answer is that it all depends on how anal you are about the image and how much dough you want to drop. A dvdo is going to offer you a greater degree of image control for a hefty sum while a standalone bd player is going to do a very good job for less but without as much input on how it does it. At 120" to 133" I have no idea what the effective difference might be.

I like the dvdo for running my dvd collection and the digital cable.
I route the ps3 right around it and into the reciever since the processor is just going to pass the 1080p signal anyways.

My biggest quam with dvdo is that the bring out a new model every 6 months. You can upgrade but it keeps you indentured to them. Their latest adds HDMI 1.3 and would cost me $1000.00 to upgrade. At this point that's ridiculous.

Hope some of that helps.

SKRUhddvd · 10-30-2007, 07:30 PM

thanks guys! i don't like generally asking this type of question at avs because everyone their thinks their an expert so you get 30 different definitive answers which only confuses me more. both of your answers were helpful and understandable.

cpgator · 10-30-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKRUhddvd

thanks guys! i don't like generally asking this type of question at avs because everyone their thinks their an expert so you get 30 different definitive answers which only confuses me more. both of your answers were helpful and understandable.

I agree that AVS can get confusing and requires a lot of reading. I only mention that site since there would be a lot more scaler users than here.

In my experience, there isn't too much improvement you can do to a broadcast signal.

Also - isn't the xv-z12000mkII a 720p projector? Why would you want to upconvert to 1080p - I don't even think that projector can accept that resolution.

SKRUhddvd · 10-30-2007, 08:19 PM

(Also - isn't the xv-z12000mkII a 720p projector? Why would you want to upconvert to 1080p - I don't even think that projector can accept that resolution.) -------the mark 2 will do 1080i.

cpgator · 10-30-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKRUhddvd

(Also - isn't the xv-z12000mkII a 720p projector? Why would you want to upconvert to 1080p - I don't even think that projector can accept that resolution.) -------the mark 2 will do 1080i.

It can accept up to 1080i, but will only display 720p - correct?

SKRUhddvd · 10-30-2007, 09:58 PM

the way sharp explained it to me an hd signal of 1080i or 1080p will be displayed at 1080i through a feature they call advanced intelligent compression. don't ask me to explain what aic is. that may be why my laser disc player and satellite system looks so bad at that size. my BD player (pioneer elite bdp-94hd) looks great . if you have more info on this let me know? thanks!

cpgator · 10-31-2007, 03:23 AM

Assuming this is the model you have -

Sharp XV-Z12000MKII HD Ready DLP Front Projector

Then according to the specs:
Native 720p High Definition Capability
is compatible with 1080i and 720p HD signals

This means it can only display 720p, but will accept to 1080i (and down convert that signal to 720p). If you send a 1080p signal to the projector, then it shouldn't display anything, so I am not sure why you are getting a picture from your BD player (assuming you have it set to output 1080p).

I would try sending a 1080i and 720p signal from you BD player and seeing what looks best. This will depend on what converts better. I would only output 720p from your cable/sat box and see how that looks.

SKRUhddvd · 10-31-2007, 03:50 AM

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...rp/index3.html - here is a test of the sharp xv-z12000 Mark II. they test it at 720P and 1080i . in the projector menu it is set to res. 1080i . and tonight just to check i had the pio bdp-94hd send 1080p/24 and it plays just fine. the picture quality doesnt change wheather set at 1080p or 1080i as this projector can only display 1080i max. everything points to this projector displaying 1080i as per what i have been told by sharp. now i am confused. i will call them again tomorrow just to confirm. i do want to clear this up. thanks! --p.s. i did not test it yet at 720p i will do that tomorrow.

cpgator · 10-31-2007, 02:11 PM

How do you have your BD player hooked up to your projector? Component or HDMI/DVI?

And what part of Colorado are you from?

SKRUhddvd · 10-31-2007, 02:24 PM

the pio bdp-94hd output hdmi to a pio elite 74txvi . pio 74 output hdmi/dvi to the dvi input of the sharp. im in Erie CO. east side of Boulder.

cpgator · 10-31-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKRUhddvd

the pio bdp-94hd output hdmi to a pio elite 74txvi . pio 74 output hdmi/dvi to the dvi input of the sharp.

Then I am confused. Unless your receiver is set to output 720p/1080i, then I don't know how you are getting a signal. Even that review you pointed to mentions it can only accept up to 1080i. I even checked the Sharp website, and they show it cannot accept 1080p.

Hopefully if you call Sharp they can clear it up. Sorry I couldn't offer more help.

love blu or go home! · 10-31-2007, 03:13 PM

I have had this projector for 3 years now and I will tell you it can't accpet a 1080P signal. I have directv with the HD package and no scaler and it looks great at 720P.

SKRUhddvd · 10-31-2007, 03:23 PM

get this, i just got off the phone with Sharp. i told them that i normally have the bdp-94hd set to output 1080i because i thought it was overkill sending in 1080p since i thought the projector was only capable of 1080i. they told me to set the 94hd to 1080p. they say in their tests this projector will easily display 1080i or better sending in a blu ray 1080p signal. this projector has a very high quality scaler built in and will display its best image with a 1080p signal feed. i can only assume the projector specs from sharp may be a bit conservative. remember when this projector was first released their was no blu ray & 1080i was the high water mark. their tech supp number is 877 388-7427

welwynnick · 10-31-2007, 03:26 PM

Guys, once and for all, digital projectors may accept 1080i video, but they never display it. You need a CRT for that. The Sharp XV-Z 9/10/12k series were all 720p PJs (among the best) but they cannot display 1080i. The XV-Z12000MkII in particular had very effective proprietary video processing that could de-interlace 1080i to 1080p before scaling down to 720p. That way, there is no loss of resolution. The cheap way is to scale 1080i directly to 720p by treating 1080i as 540p. That is common and is cheating and loses resolution, and is the reason why so many people are underwhelmed by HDTV.

The XV-Z 20k is a 1080p native projector, and will effectively convert 1080i to 1080p. That's a different prospect altogether.

Nick

SKRUhddvd · 10-31-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Guys, once and for all, digital projectors may accept 1080i video, but they never display it. You need a CRT for that. The Sharp XV-Z 9/10/12k series were all 720p PJs (among the best) but they cannot display 1080i. The XV-Z12000MkII in particular had very effective proprietary video processing that could de-interlace 1080i to 1080p before scaling down to 720p. That way, there is no loss of resolution. The cheap way is to scale 1080i directly to 720p by treating 1080i as 540p. That is common and is cheating and loses resolution, and is the reason why so many people are underwhelmed by HDTV.

The XV-Z 20k is a 1080p native projector, and will effectively convert 1080i to 1080p. That's a different prospect altogether.

Nick

- i think this makes more sense to me then what i got from the sharp support line. thanks to all you guys!

cpgator · 10-31-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Guys, once and for all, digital projectors may accept 1080i video, but they never display it. You need a CRT for that. The Sharp XV-Z 9/10/12k series were all 720p PJs (among the best) but they cannot display 1080i.

I think I have said since the beginning that this projector could only display 720p, but could accept 1080i. However, I believe some digital displays can produce a 1080i image - not just CRT.

welwynnick · 10-31-2007, 07:58 PM

Do you mean the ALIS plasmas?

jermwhl · 10-31-2007, 08:12 PM

I just got the TX-SR705. That has video upscaling. Is that the same thing as your talking about? I'm not familiar with DVD0.
Or is this a totally different thing? Sorry for the hijack, just want to be able to understand...........

10-30-2007, 03:09 PM	#1
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	who here has an integrated scaler in their system? does anyone here use a scaler to upconvert their other video equipment to 1080p. in particular a DVDO scaler. like many here i cant watch satellite or my laser disc's anymore, the picture quality just does not compare. i have no problem watching upconverted sd dvd on my bd player. i was wondering how effective are these scalers and are they worth the price? p.s. i should mention the screen size is 120 to 133" using a sharp xv-z12000mkII projector. Last edited by SKRUhddvd; 10-30-2007 at 03:15 PM.

10-30-2007, 09:58 PM	#8
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	the way sharp explained it to me an hd signal of 1080i or 1080p will be displayed at 1080i through a feature they call advanced intelligent compression. don't ask me to explain what aic is. that may be why my laser disc player and satellite system looks so bad at that size. my BD player (pioneer elite bdp-94hd) looks great . if you have more info on this let me know? thanks! Last edited by SKRUhddvd; 10-30-2007 at 10:03 PM.

10-31-2007, 03:50 AM	#10
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...rp/index3.html - here is a test of the sharp xv-z12000 Mark II. they test it at 720P and 1080i . in the projector menu it is set to res. 1080i . and tonight just to check i had the pio bdp-94hd send 1080p/24 and it plays just fine. the picture quality doesnt change wheather set at 1080p or 1080i as this projector can only display 1080i max. everything points to this projector displaying 1080i as per what i have been told by sharp. now i am confused. i will call them again tomorrow just to confirm. i do want to clear this up. thanks! --p.s. i did not test it yet at 720p i will do that tomorrow. Last edited by SKRUhddvd; 10-31-2007 at 03:55 AM.

10-31-2007, 02:11 PM	#11
cpgator Senior Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Parker, CO	How do you have your BD player hooked up to your projector? Component or HDMI/DVI? And what part of Colorado are you from? Last edited by cpgator; 10-31-2007 at 02:14 PM.

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10-30-2007, 03:59 PM	#3
Rustmonsteru Expert Member Member since:Mar 2007	I've had severl iterations of DVDO. The scaling quality is great and it offers a lot of options to control the picture in general, but it depends on what you're sourcing to it. Example: I have an Oppo region free upscaling dvd player with Faroudjia on it and I have a Denon 1910. I get better upscaling from the DVDO using the Denon set to interlaced than I do from the Oppo on regardless of settings because the DVDO deinterlaces and scales the less processed interlaced image from the Denon better. The Oppo fights things imo. I don't own a standalone BD players so I'll compare the PS3's upscaling: I'd say the PS3 does a great job but it doesn't have the specific features and capabilities to handle individual cases or specific artifacts the way the DVDO does. Often the PS3's upscaled picture can look soft by comparison which for some people looks better. So I guess my answer is that it all depends on how anal you are about the image and how much dough you want to drop. A dvdo is going to offer you a greater degree of image control for a hefty sum while a standalone bd player is going to do a very good job for less but without as much input on how it does it. At 120" to 133" I have no idea what the effective difference might be. I like the dvdo for running my dvd collection and the digital cable. I route the ps3 right around it and into the reciever since the processor is just going to pass the 1080p signal anyways. My biggest quam with dvdo is that the bring out a new model every 6 months. You can upgrade but it keeps you indentured to them. Their latest adds HDMI 1.3 and would cost me $1000.00 to upgrade. At this point that's ridiculous. Hope some of that helps.

10-30-2007, 07:30 PM	#4
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	thanks guys! i don't like generally asking this type of question at avs because everyone their thinks their an expert so you get 30 different definitive answers which only confuses me more. both of your answers were helpful and understandable.

10-30-2007, 08:19 PM	#6
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	(Also - isn't the xv-z12000mkII a 720p projector? Why would you want to upconvert to 1080p - I don't even think that projector can accept that resolution.) -------the mark 2 will do 1080i.

10-31-2007, 03:23 AM	#9
cpgator Senior Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Parker, CO	Assuming this is the model you have - Sharp XV-Z12000MKII HD Ready DLP Front Projector Then according to the specs: Native 720p High Definition Capability is compatible with 1080i and 720p HD signals This means it can only display 720p, but will accept to 1080i (and down convert that signal to 720p). If you send a 1080p signal to the projector, then it shouldn't display anything, so I am not sure why you are getting a picture from your BD player (assuming you have it set to output 1080p). I would try sending a 1080i and 720p signal from you BD player and seeing what looks best. This will depend on what converts better. I would only output 720p from your cable/sat box and see how that looks.

10-31-2007, 02:24 PM	#12
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	the pio bdp-94hd output hdmi to a pio elite 74txvi . pio 74 output hdmi/dvi to the dvi input of the sharp. im in Erie CO. east side of Boulder.

10-31-2007, 03:13 PM	#14
love blu or go home! Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:NYC, New York Trading Score:3	I have had this projector for 3 years now and I will tell you it can't accpet a 1080P signal. I have directv with the HD package and no scaler and it looks great at 720P.

10-31-2007, 03:23 PM	#15
SKRUhddvd Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:colorado	get this, i just got off the phone with Sharp. i told them that i normally have the bdp-94hd set to output 1080i because i thought it was overkill sending in 1080p since i thought the projector was only capable of 1080i. they told me to set the 94hd to 1080p. they say in their tests this projector will easily display 1080i or better sending in a blu ray 1080p signal. this projector has a very high quality scaler built in and will display its best image with a 1080p signal feed. i can only assume the projector specs from sharp may be a bit conservative. remember when this projector was first released their was no blu ray & 1080i was the high water mark. their tech supp number is 877 388-7427

10-31-2007, 03:26 PM	#16
welwynnick Senior Member Member since:Sep 2007	Guys, once and for all, digital projectors may accept 1080i video, but they never display it. You need a CRT for that. The Sharp XV-Z 9/10/12k series were all 720p PJs (among the best) but they cannot display 1080i. The XV-Z12000MkII in particular had very effective proprietary video processing that could de-interlace 1080i to 1080p before scaling down to 720p. That way, there is no loss of resolution. The cheap way is to scale 1080i directly to 720p by treating 1080i as 540p. That is common and is cheating and loses resolution, and is the reason why so many people are underwhelmed by HDTV. The XV-Z 20k is a 1080p native projector, and will effectively convert 1080i to 1080p. That's a different prospect altogether. Nick

10-31-2007, 07:58 PM	#19
welwynnick Senior Member Member since:Sep 2007	Do you mean the ALIS plasmas?

10-31-2007, 08:12 PM	#20
jermwhl Special Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Virginia	I just got the TX-SR705. That has video upscaling. Is that the same thing as your talking about? I'm not familiar with DVD0. Or is this a totally different thing? Sorry for the hijack, just want to be able to understand...........

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