audiophile/videophile Here To Stay discussion thread

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Believe me, I know exactly how you feel! My Parasound C2 has been great! Excellent sound, no issues etc. But, no hdmi!

If I were able to sell of my HK 635 for halfway decent money, I'm giving the both the Yamaha RX-V1700 and 2700 a serious look. Upconverting video. Pretty loaded at their price points and Yamaha is usually an amazing brand for anything audio related.

Both have HDMI 1.2a. The 1700 has two HDMI inputs, the 2700 has three.

Loaded!

Hmmm....

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JTK

If I were able to sell of my HK 635 for halfway decent money, I'm giving the both the Yamaha RX-V1700 and 2700 a serious look. Upconverting video. Pretty loaded at their price points and Yamaha is usually an amazing brand for anything audio related.

Both have HDMI 1.2a. The 1700 has two HDMI inputs, the 2700 has three.

Loaded!

Hmmm....

Hilarious! I was actually going to recommend that you take a look at those Yamahas! They are highly regarded in the threads I've seen, which isn't surprising. Yamaha is definitely upper tier when it comes to audio receivers.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Hilarious! I was actually going to recommend that you take a look at those Yamahas! They are highly regarded in the threads I've seen, which isn't surprising. Yamaha is definitely upper tier when it comes to audio receivers.

Naturally, I have the typical "upgraditis fear" at play here: Am I going to be back at this point in another year or two? I don't want to be.

On paper, those Yamahas look like they even have somewhat of an edge over the comparable Pioneer Elite receivers. What do you think?

[ay221]

I still think waiting for a 1.3 hdmi receiver is the best. So any advance codecs that the PS3 may not be able to do, or a 7.1 stuff the receiver can handle. I will wait.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by ay221

I still think waiting for a 1.3 hdmi receiver is the best. So any advance codecs that the PS3 may not be able to do, or a 7.1 stuff the receiver can handle. I will wait.

^^ That's a very good point. The HDMI 1.3 receiver would cover any gaps, wouldn't it?

Just for my info: When are the HDMI 1.3 receivers coming out and by whom?

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JTK

Naturally, I have the typical "upgraditis fear" at play here: Am I going to be back at this point in another year or two? I don't want to be.

On paper, those Yamahas look like they even have somewhat of an edge over the comparable Pioneer Elite receivers. What do you think?

After reading a thread on the Anthem D2 where I asked several questions due to the exact same fears that you have, I think you would be fine. Here is why:

It appears that the new HD Audio formats MUST be decoded in the player. I.E., the receiver/pre-pro won't need to decode it, because any of the HD formats that are authored in the "advanced" mode (virtually all them), the player MUST decode the HD audio format (TrueHD, DTS-HD etc) and then send it via PCM to the receiver/pre-pro via HDMI.

Bob Pariseau explains it quite good here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post8981904

Post 2224.

This brings us all back to getting players that will decode the HD Audio formats themselves. Does the Panny do this yet? What about the PS3? Bob says the HD-A1 will decode TrueHD and send it via PCM through HDMI to a receiver.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

After reading a thread on the Anthem D2 where I asked several questions due to the exact same fears that you have, I think you would be fine. Here is why:

It appears that the new HD Audio formats MUST be decoded in the player. I.E., the receiver/pre-pro won't need to decode it, because any of the HD formats that are authored in the "advanced" mode (virtually all them), the player MUST decode the HD audio format (TrueHD, DTS-HD etc) and then send it via PCM to the receiver/pre-pro via HDMI.

Bob Pariseau explains it quite good here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post8981904

Post 2224.

This brings us all back to getting players that will decode the HD Audio formats themselves. Does the Panny do this yet? What about the PS3? Bob says the HD-A1 will decode TrueHD and send it via PCM through HDMI to a receiver.

Bob practically walks on water as far as I'm concerned.


What about this borderline FUD I keep seeing about the audio codecs being "optional" with BD players and the rest of it?

There's also this concern that the PS3 would slip through some cracks as far as things that would normally apply to "players."

----------o-----------

I had asked Chad Vardanore about this and here's what he said about this whole subject of HDMI 1.3, etc.

As long as the player decodes the audio internally, all you need is HDMI 1.1 to pass it as PCM. With HD DVD, since IME tracks are mixed into the audio in the player itself, decoding externally via a 1.3 compatible receiver wouldn't allow you to listen to the commentary. I expect BD will be the same when it's version of IME comes out, unless it's a separate, self contained track.

1.3 is only needed for external decoding in a 1.3 compliant AVR or processor, like sending legacy DD or DTS to a receiver via digital coax or optical. But, it could be years before decoding outside of the player is widely done or practical. If you do shop around for a new AVR now with HDMI 1.1, look at Denon and others known to update their existing products. I expect Denon to offer a 1.3 upgrade to some of their upper end products at least. Some separates manufactureres like Anthem are likely to do the same.

[Rob Tomlin]

Speaking of the Panny, ValueElectronics is selling it today (black Friday) for $999.99. Not bad.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JTK

Bob practically walks on water as far as I'm concerned.

I agree!

What about this borderline FUD I keep seeing about the audio codecs being "optional" with BD players and the rest of it?

This is exactly what I meant about being back "to getting players that will decode the HD Audio formats themselves", because some definitely do NOT do it. In fact, most of the BD players don't. But the Panny is supposed to get a FW update that will take care of this, which is why I was asking about that in my earlier post.

But as I understand it, none of this will have any effect on the receivers! Your concern should be whether your PLAYER will be outdated if it doesn't decode the audio formats. If it does, it can send it via HDMI (1.1 is all you need for this) to your new receiver. No problem, and no real concern about longivity with your new hdmi 1.1 equipped receiver.

If anybody thinks differently, I would love to hear from them!

There's also this concern that the PS3 would slip through some cracks as far as things that would normally apply to "players."

Like what? Does the PS3 currently decode the HD Audio formats? I don't even know, and I have one coming next week!

[Rob Tomlin]

That quote from Chad seems to be perfectly consistent with what Bob and others are saying. I think we would be quite safe with a hdmi 1.1 receiver/pre-pro.

[dobyblue]

I too work with many resolutions from 24/192 and 24/176.4 to 24/48 and flac encoding. I trade many shows and constantly am involved in various torrents for Dave Matthews Band.
I completely agree with Golden that on paper TrueHD should sound no different than LPCM, because the data is the same. But the thing is there is still compression involved. I don't have a .flac decoder in my home theatre set-up so I can only listen on my PC and I don't hear any difference between listening to a file in .flac24 and listening to it in full 24 bit, but I will say that one is compressed, losslessly, while the other one isn't.
It will be interesting to listen to a disc that has both TrueHD or DTS-MA and LPCM on it to see on a good system if there is any difference. Only time will tell. Perhaps we'll have to wait for an audio album to be released to really see if the compression allows for any subtle differences in the output.
So far the LPCM tracks seem to be stunning and I have no doubt the TrueHD tracks when placed on BD at their higher bitrates could be stunning too. I fully believe that when I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver from Pioneer and send the DTS-MA straight into the receiver digitally I'm just going to shed a tear at how brilliant it is.

[Rob Tomlin]

After some more reading, it looks like I won't quite have to sell a kidney to get a D2, since the Anthem AVM50 has the same video processing, just not quite the same audio horsepower as the D2. The AVM50's MSRP is $2000.00 less than the D2!

http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/...50_d2_comp.pdf

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

After some more reading, it looks like I won't quite have to sell a kidney to get a D2, since the Anthem AVM50 has the same video processing, just not quite the same audio horsepower as the D2. The AVM50's MSRP is $2000.00 less than the D2!

http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/...50_d2_comp.pdf

Wow, "only" $4500!

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JTK

Wow, "only" $4500!

It's all relative! It's still almost a third cheaper than the D2!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

It's all relative! It's still almost a third cheaper than the D2!

Let me know what you find out about upgrades and such on a piece like that.

I'd be interested to see if owners of a piece like that would be able to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 down the road or something like that.

No doubt: Those are amazing pieces of equipment!

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JTK

Let me know what you find out about upgrades and such on a piece like that.

I'd be interested to see if owners of a piece like that would be able to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 down the road or something like that.

No doubt: Those are amazing pieces of equipment!

I've noticed that owners of Anthem equipment are like a cult! They really have a loyal following, and much of it has to do with the upgrade ability of their products. I don't know that they will ever be able to do HDMI 1.3 though. I will let you know what I find out.

BTW, that $4500.00 price doesn't include the amplifier you will need to actually get any sound to the speakers!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

I've noticed that owners of Anthem equipment are like a cult! They really have a loyal following, and much of it has to do with the upgrade ability of their products. I don't know that they will ever be able to do HDMI 1.3 though. I will let you know what I find out.

BTW, that $4500.00 price doesn't include the amplifier you will need to actually get any sound to the speakers!

Jeezuz.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Why wouldn't you "ever" buy a Pearl or Ruby?

Because I have seen them....and although they are a nice upgrade to my current Optoma H-78dc3...aka H-79......DLP has more pop, detail...and possibly depth to the picture ...were sxrd is too smooth for my tastes.

The depth part is really up in the open until I get to see an actual 1080p DLP...but the pop and sharpness I seek....are in the DLP camp IMO.

[JTK]

For five grand, how about the Sony VPL-VW50 SXRD 1080p Home Theater Front Projector

Read: http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=34080


^^ This thing's been getting rave reviews all over the place, most recently in WSR issue 115.

Basically the idea being: They can't believe it's "only" 5 grand.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by JTK

For five grand, how about the Sony VPL-VW50 SXRD 1080p Home Theater Front Projector

Read: http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=34080


^^ This thing's been getting rave reviews all over the place, most recently in WSR issue 115.

Basically the idea being: They can't believe it's "only" 5 grand.

These can be bought cheaper than 5k(The Pearl)....but the 1080p DLP pj's are just starting to trickle out....and by this spring...there will be more to compare to.

There should also be a lot more players and movies to compare them on.

If I had to buy today....it would be the Optoma H-81 with the included outboard scaler....but they have a few issues to work out first.

I am usually one of the first to jump.....but waiting for HD optical to get going...has forced me to be more paitient when upgrading.