The evolution of Blu-ray, and why HD DVD will not even be in the picture...

[joeorc]

Japan's Optware advances holographic disc storage
Each disc could store as much as 200GB of data
Paul Kallender Today’s Top Stories or Other Storage Stories


August 24, 2004 (IDG News Service) -- Although Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD technologies have yet to reach the mainstream, a Japanese company said it has made progress toward a more advanced holographic technology that may one day replace them. Optware Corp. said today that it has achieved the world's first reliable recording and playback of digital movies on a transparent holographic recording disc.
Optware plans to commercialize the technology in the first quarter of 2006, offering reader/writer players and 200GB Holographic Versatile Discs (HVD) for enterprise users. Much less expensive consumer versions could be on the market as soon as 2007, said Yasuhide Kageyama, manager of business development and marketing at Yokohama-based Optware.
The company has developed a so-called Collinear Holographic Data Storage System that uses a green 532-nanometer laser to read holographic data on a 12-centimeter disc. In the system, light from the green laser is split into two beams. Data to be recorded is encoded onto one of the beams while the other beam is used as a reference. The two beams interfere with each other inside the disc's recording layer, and in this way data is stored.
Below the recording layer is a preformatted layer that stores servo data and is read by a second, red laser. This enables accurate tracking of the disc. Between the data layer and servo layer is a mirror layer, which reflects the green laser but is transparent to the red laser. It's this mirror layer that is the key to HVD, said Kageyama, because it stops the scattering of light within the disc that could cause noise and deteriorate the signal quality.
The company is initially planning to use the technology for enterprise applications. Drives for this market will cost about $20,000 and will initially use 200GB HVDs, with a target cost of about $100 per disc.
Drives for home users will cost about $2,700, about the same as commercially available Blu-ray Disc players cost now. While Kageyama didn't have a cost estimate of future home-use HVDs, he said that a number of Japanese, European and U.S. companies led by Sony Corp. have expressed interest in the technology. Last month, Sony ordered collinear technology equipment from Optware to research and develop holographic storage technology and disc manufacturing systems using blue lasers, according to an Optware statement.
"Sony and some major Japanese electronics companies are studying holographic storage to replace HD-DVDs and Blu-ray Discs. Sony wants to develop next-next-generation storage technologies, and we can say that our collinear solution is getting very popular," Kageyama said.
Future developments of the technology could take its capacity up to 1TB of data on 12-centimeter discs the company said.
Optware demonstrated a prototype of the system to investors and other electronics companies in early July, it said. It declined to name the companies that attended the demonstrations. It plans to present technical details of the technology at the COST Action P8 conference in Paris on Sept. 16 and 17.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/newthread....newthread&f=24

Sony and others have started on HOLOGRAPHIC disc's useing Blue lasers...hmmm. i wonder why HD DVD is not doing such development of their format..

HD DVD stop gap to digital downloads
Blu-Ray evolution of the optical disc

[matts]

Read carefully the second part you highlighted - They are researching holographic discs to REPLACE HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I don't think any of us should be happy about that. Whether it be HD DVD or Blu-ray, when it comes to movies, I'd rather see one of them stick around for a solid 10 years before we have to go through this again.

Plus, any format can be used for data without being used for movies. There's a ton of various formats that are purely data related only.

I don't think this article really has anything to do with HD DVD or Blu-ray, other than potentially replacing it someday. Although even with 1TB of storage, I question whether or not we'd even see a difference other than the amount of material stored on a disc. DVD to HD DVD or BLu-ray is noticable. Either of the new formats to another format that is only 1080P probably wouldn't be.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by matts

Read carefully the second part you highlighted - They are researching holographic discs to REPLACE HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I don't think any of us should be happy about that. Whether it be HD DVD or Blu-ray, when it comes to movies, I'd rather see one of them stick around for a solid 10 years before we have to go through this again.

Plus, any format can be used for data without being used for movies. There's a ton of various formats that are purely data related only.

I don't think this article really has anything to do with HD DVD or Blu-ray, other than potentially replacing it someday. Although even with 1TB of storage, I question whether or not we'd even see a difference other than the amount of material stored on a disc. DVD to HD DVD or BLu-ray is noticable. Either of the new formats to another format that is only 1080P probably wouldn't be.

do you know why they are researching it look at the date 2004..right now HOLOGRAPHIC optical drives are $18,000 EACH ITS GOING TO TAKE YEARS..what this means is SONY and the Other Blu-RAY backer companies are working on a solution when even Blu-Ray becomes taxed. which will not be for a long time...NOTICE THE 3D Blu-Ray movie player that have been talked about ..where is HD DVD's there is none ..why because HD DVD backers could care less.

they do not want to keep developing optical formats forward they want to stop. is that what you want companies to stop makeing OPTICAL DRIVES.
LOOK AT MP3's and how much they have hurt the CD player market. would you want the same thing to happen to your Movies..?

its clear which side wants to keep OPTICAL formats around and which does not...

notice this:

Sony wants to develop next-next-generation storage technologies

[jcdDigix]

For all that I'd say the Blu-ray Revolution as quoted by Disney's Boob Chapek: "The Blu-ray technology is, quite simply, superior to any other high-def alternative because it is a “revolutionary,” not and “evolutionary” technology."
Let the World feel the Blu!

[C6 Z06]

I think one of the main reasons HD-DVD won't be around is because of some of their "super intelligent" supporters making posts like these on other fourms



#668 Today, 01:59 PM
Icepik_ca
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Buy/Sell/Trade Score: 0
Posts: 1

Format War

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I currently own both. '

PS3 - Blu Ray
Toshiba HD-A2 - HD DVD.

At first I was a huge Blu Ray fan. But ever since I purchased the Toshiba HD-A2 almost 1 month agao I realized how much better the sound is from the HD player. I don't own a high end reciver so I realize I was limited in the quality of sound that I could get. I have to use a toslink (Fibre optic) input to my reciever, so the best I could get is DTS 5.1. But Blu Ray movies hardly ever include a DTS or DD+ option. You either have to use PCM uncompressed or just regular Dolby 5.1 (640 kbs). Whenever I watch an HD DVD movie I have the option of using DD+ (Dolbly Digital +) which I find is alot better. Transformers for example had a sound transfer rate of 1.5 mbs and my surround system never sounded that good.

I have the James Bond collect on DVD and the sound tracks on them are DTS. These movies sound better than Spiderman 3 which the only option I have is regular Dolby (640 kbs). If ypou use the True HD option is downconverts the sound transfer to regular Dobly 5.1 at 640 kbs. A similar DD+ will be downconverted to a DTS qualuity, which makes a huge difference for someone like me. I realize that if you are to use the PCM Uncompressed the sound quality will equal to Dolby True HD. But at least HD DVD allows the intermediate user to enjoy DD+.

What I don't understand is why doesn't the Blu Ray forum insist on providing a min of DD+ on all their movies. The Blu Ray forum mentions that DD+ is a standard for Blu Ray but I have yet to see it included with any movies. A Blu Ray disk is capable of holding 50 gb of info, so my question is why don't they provide us with more sound options. They obviously have the space.

Summary:

Picture Qaulity - HD DVD slightly better

Sound Quality - HD DVD alot better (for users without high end recievers).

If a movie comes out on both formats, I'll be buying the HD DVD version all the time. Unless Blu Ray provides more sound options, I hope HD DVD wins this format war.



#651 10-21-2007, 09:02 PM
ajmrowland
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by vooswing
Doby's post and this post just show that the formats are virtually identical. If anyone claims they can see a .19 difference in picture quality or hear a .31 difference in sound quality they are crazy.

I know we all love are numbers but to me these just show the formats are equal in quality.

I agree. It all comes down to the security and interactivity, of which HD DVD is by far superior. I'm only a fanboy on terms of how well each format works with any given thing(movie, command, etc.)

[Elandyll]

They are doing research for a new standard, based on Blu Ray technology, that "might" replace Blu Ray in like, ten years maybe ?
Holographic discs sound almost like Sci Fi hehe.

nothing to worry about

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by jcdDigix

I'd say the Blu-ray Revolution as quoted by Disney's Boob Chapek: "The Blu-ray technology is, quite simply, superior to any other high-def alternative because it is a “revolutionary,” not and “evolutionary” technology."
Let the World feel the Blu!

exactly.

right now Blu-Ray is the better Technology they are already takeing Blu-Ray into Holographic directions. where is HD DVD being taken into..yea the trash heap Once Digital Downloads get here.

[matts]

Originally Posted by joeorc

do you know why they are researching it look at the date 2004..right now HOLOGRAPHIC optical drives are $18,000 EACH ITS GOING TO TAKE YEARS..what this means is SONY and the Other Blu-RAY backer companies are working on a solution when even Blu-Ray becomes taxed. which will not be for a long time...NOTICE THE 3D Blu-Ray movie player that have been talked about ..where is HD DVD's there is none ..why because HD DVD backers could care less.

they do not want to keep developing optical formats forward they want to stop. is that what you want companies to stop makeing OPTICAL DRIVES.
LOOK AT MP3's and how much they have hurt the CD player market. would you want the same thing to happen to your Movies..?

its clear which side wants to keep OPTICAL formats around and which does not...

notice this:

Sony wants to develop next-next-generation storage technologies

I think both sides realize optical media is going to be around for a long time. MP3's and CD's are very different - The size of them is what made them portable and easily distributed digitally.

Even if we could buy our movies online, we'd need Terabytes of space to store them, and even that wouldn't be enough.

I've seen a lot of people reference Microsoft's download service and use that to show how they are anti-media, but I just don't see that. Microsoft's download service is really much more competing with VOD from Cable providers and the like.

And as far as your comment about blu-ray being taxed, what would cause it to be taxed? Unless movies increase in length, its not going to be taxed when discussing movies. At least not until a new HD TV resolution is out, and for all our sakes, I hope thats a long long time away - I see more detail on my set now than I see when standing right in front of someone.

You just need to separate the two - movies and data.

[matts]

Originally Posted by joeorc

exactly.

right now Blu-Ray is the better Technology they are already takeing Blu-Ray into Holographic directions. where is HD DVD being taken into..yea the trash heap Once Digital Downloads get here.

The article says nothing about that. It simply says they are looking into the holographic format. Only similarity seems to be that it uses a blu laser. So does HD DVD.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

They are doing research for a new standard, based on Blu Ray technology, that "might" replace Blu Ray in like, ten years maybe ?
Holographic discs sound almost like Sci Fi hehe.

nothing to worry about

even the expert's that deal with HVD like the future Blu-Ray ver. of HVD know its not even going to remotely start to even be Viable until 2015 BARE MIN. the current price on these OPTICAL DRIVES IS

$18,000 each optical drive ..and a $180.00 per Disc...

[bazie]

Originally Posted by joeorc

LOOK AT MP3's and how much they have hurt the CD player market. would you want the same thing to happen to your Movies..?

mp3's are great for the consumer....itunes et all is for many people the better solution then having to carry around large obnoxious scratchable CD's everywhere.

I don't really see why on demand high definition video over the internet would be a bad thing either to be honest. I mean many wouldn't like it, they would want a hardcopy of their movies to keep arround forever, but for many people it would be excellent

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by matts

The article says nothing about that. It simply says they are looking into the holographic format. Only similarity seems to be that it uses a blu laser. So does HD DVD.

Atomic Holographic Optical Nanostorage Drive that is where Blu-Ray development is heading.

do you know what type of laser HVD uses...?, its Blue/green......
look at the date when this article was posted "2004" Blu-Ray optical drive's were already on the market in Apr 2003 on retail outlets for consumer purchase in japan and Asia..where was HD DVD..that's right just getting started and finaly getting out its first player in 2006...in North America...HD DVD was a clone of the Blu-Ray format on top of that its a lesser clone.

look here this may help you.

notice a couple of things:

OLED

Atomic Holographic Optical Nanostorage Drive

http://www.colossalstorage.net/

HD DVD is stop gap for digital downloads
Blu-Ray is being development toward future,not just a stop gap format.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by matts

I think both sides realize optical media is going to be around for a long time. MP3's and CD's are very different - The size of them is what made them portable and easily distributed digitally.

Even if we could buy our movies online, we'd need Terabytes of space to store them, and even that wouldn't be enough.

I've seen a lot of people reference Microsoft's download service and use that to show how they are anti-media, but I just don't see that. Microsoft's download service is really much more competing with VOD from Cable providers and the like.

And as far as your comment about blu-ray being taxed, what would cause it to be taxed? Unless movies increase in length, its not going to be taxed when discussing movies. At least not until a new HD TV resolution is out, and for all our sakes, I hope thats a long long time away - I see more detail on my set now than I see when standing right in front of someone.

You just need to separate the two - movies and data.

example of one way Blu-Ray could be taxed in the future

look at OLED and you see why i said Blu-Ray very well could be taxed in the future now not for a while that's true but resolution of TV's are going to get a big jump in size due to things like OLED. I AM JUST SAYING people want the movie theatre experience a OLED screen the size of 250" 11mm thick, with a 1,000,000 to 1 contrast r. from any angle weighing less than 10 lbs .

OLED is here now give its development 10 more years.

[thrlride]

these would be perfect for 1440p which would blow any 1080p away.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by thrlride

these would be perfect for 1440p which would blow any 1080p away.

OLED's in the future can be printed like you would by printing a news paper than cut off the roll. thats what the CE companies have been working on for some time not just Sony. most any of the BIG LCD companies are working on OLED. THE PICTURE QUALITY IS OUTSTANDING CHECK IT OUT:

the OLED is in use already in Cellphones and CAMERA and this was in 2003

TV's are soon to get to this point but in large sizes but very light and thats a good thing but causes challenges along the way.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0303/03030216kodakls633.asp

[matts]

Originally Posted by joeorc

Atomic Holographic Optical Nanostorage Drive that is where Blu-Ray development is heading.

do you know what type of laser HVD uses...?, its Blue/green......
look at the date when this article was posted "2004" Blu-Ray optical drive's were already on the market in Apr 2003 on retail outlets for consumer purchase in japan and Asia..where was HD DVD..that's right just getting started and finaly getting out its first player in 2006...in North America...HD DVD was a clone of the Blu-Ray format on top of that its a lesser clone.

look here this may help you.

notice a couple of things:

OLED

Atomic Holographic Optical Nanostorage Drive

http://www.colossalstorage.net/

HD DVD is stop gap for digital downloads
Blu-Ray is being development toward future,not just a stop gap format.

Sorry, but I still don't see the comparison between this and blu-ray. They really have nothing to do with each other.

Only thing in common is Sony. Sony is involved in blu-ray and Sony is looking into working on this new HVD.

And with less than 50% of the US population having HD TV's today, I hardly see them coming up with a new resolution for TV viewing already. There is a point where the returns diminish as you can only see so much. Greater resolutions will really only benefit theaters for the most part.

At 92" with my 720P projector, I see more detail on people's faces than I do standing right in front of them.

This storage will be great in the data market though - that's where it really has the value.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by matts

Sorry, but I still don't see the comparison between this and blu-ray. They really have nothing to do with each other.

Only thing in common is Sony. Sony is involved in blu-ray and Sony is looking into working on this new HVD.

And with less than 50% of the US population having HD TV's today, I hardly see them coming up with a new resolution for TV viewing already. There is a point where the returns diminish as you can only see so much. Greater resolutions will really only benefit theaters for the most part.

At 92" with my 720P projector, I see more detail on people's faces than I do standing right in front of them.

This storage will be great in the data market though - that's where it really has the value.

1440p is already here...the sets are expensive no doubt and if you look at OLED displays the future they could be printed like you do a newspaper.
yes in data back up it is going to have a advantage..

YES THEY DO...have something to do with each other

InPhase's 1.6TB holographic optical drive

Posted Jan 6th 2005 12:59PM by Peter Rojas

It's been a few months since someone announced a major breakthrough with some fantastically capacious new storage format, the last time around was Pioneer's 500GB ultraviolet laser optical disc, and then before that those 300GB holographic discs from Optware, now InPhase is pimping a holographic drive that uses optical discs that could potentially store as much as 1.6TB of data (as in terabytyes, as in a crazy amount of storage space). It's just a prototype (there is nary a word on pricing or availability), which means our wiseass plan of skipping over HD DVD and Blu-ray and going straight to the 1.6TB motherlode probably won't fly, but InPhase says they're using the same kind of of blue lasers developed for Blu-ray drives and Hitachi Maxell is developing the storage medium.

http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/06/i...optical-drive/