Spider-Man 3 sells over 130,000 copies on BD!!

[WarCraft]

Originally Posted by ottscay

I think most of yor points were good, but I'm not too keen on this one:



I agree with your general point that he wasn't being as objective as he portrays himself, but the numer of posts should not themselves be the measure of objectivity. "Objectivity" relates to how well your observations line up with the facts (and so are not being clouded by your own prejudices).

His post fails to be objective because he isn't considering all of the evidence, not because he's new here. It's not fair (And a disservice to these boards) to attack someone based on their post count unless they are obviously trolling, which I don't think he his.

I agree with you. My point for the post count was that the veterans here have been telling him how it is from the start (and how things relate to the big picture he tries to draw) to give a time frame and past evidences which he did not include in the big picture. He only based his reasoning on current events (which some veterans people are pointing out). But what can you do -- he probably made up his mind already.

[greekjgg]

[QUOTE=WarCraft;331707] He only based his reasoning on current events (which some veterans people are pointing out). QUOTE]

By george I think we have a winner!! Current events is what is going to be more important then ever. More specifically the current events of the next 8 weeks.

That includes HD Dud $99 players, box sets, and big titles...


If this format was customer driven, the decision to go blu would have been made months ago when you guys were newbies, but no, executives are being paid for their format decisions (Paramount). So, being here for a while, doesn't really amount to anything.

The people who are going to make serious decisions (Warner, etc) over the next 90 days are specifically guaging the game over the next 8 weeks where 70% of the rev comes in. It doesn't really matter that much what has occurred to this point. The fanboys on either side won't drive this war, it is the avg joe who isn't loyal to either side yet looking to buy a High Def player.

[WarCraft]

[QUOTE=greekjgg;331675]

Originally Posted by ottscay

I think most of yor points were good, but I'm not too keen on this one:


His post fails to be objective because he isn't considering all of the evidence, not because he's new here. QUOTE]


Thanks for the help, but I think what makes me objective is that I DO consider evidence that isn't favorable to blu at times which is what I think some blu fanboys can't do and starts these lengthy discussion. Just because I play devil's advocate, I'm accused of trolling, not blu, etc.......

Just as HD fanboy's dismiss certain claims as false, so do some blu here.

I have never at anypoint accused you of trolling, not blue, etc...
And indeed you have considered the evidence that isnt favorable to blu (which I would myself) but some people have reasoned with you that those evidence have been debunked previously or not enough information is available yet you remain to spin it. That's where your objectivity fly imo.

But anyway, im out. Have a good day everyone

[ottscay]

Originally Posted by greekjgg

Thanks for the help, but I think what makes me objective is that I DO consider evidence that isn't favorable to blu at times which is what I think some blu fanboys can't do and starts these lengthy discussion. Just because I play devil's advocate, I'm accused of trolling, not blu, etc.......

You're welcome, but I was't helping. I just don't like to see people make bad arguements (my post record on AVS shows that better than here, where I often lurk). The key here is that you are placing too much emphasis on what you are inferring, which is fine, except that your inference is not in line with the available data.

Your whole hangup seems to be the assumption that Sony would release the largest numbers possible in their press release, but as I've already pointed out this may not actually be the most favorable course of action for the format.

Warner can decide the duration of the format war in Q1 '08. Paramount just pissed Warner off by inflating their numbers for a publicity stunt. If Sony adds the box set numbers to the SM3 single SKU they almost certainly exceed Warner's first week sales of 165k of 300 on BD.

Do you REALLY think that claiming the highest first week sales by adding two SKUs together is the best strategic move under these circumstances? People would legitimately be asking if that is a fair comparison, and Warner would rightfully feel like both sides care more about publicity stunts then about studio relationships.

Instead, Sony has demonstrated that they handily beat Transformers, despite TF selling oodles more on DVD than SM3, which should be enough. And overall Nielsen numbers should be impressive tomorrow.

Just as HD fanboy's dismiss certain claims as false, so do some blu here.

Of course some people do; that does not shore up your arguements on this subject, which are contradicted by the best available evidence.

[IvanDrago]

So Spiderman 3 + Boxset has sold more in 6 days than Transformers has in 21 days?

Thats Gold, JERRY! Gold!

I'm just hoping we don't get a Nielson wake up call ala Paramount/Transformers numbers.

[stray]

I just want to chime in that I agree with what ottscay wrote.

If Sony posted SP3 and boxset #s, it would not represent SP3 sales. Some people who bought the boxset did not buy it for SP3. IMHO, SP3 did not deserve my money by itself. But I did go out and buy the boxset. So if Sony quoted both numbers they would be doing a great disservice to the actual #s of TF and 300 sold. Whatever # that might be.

[ottscay]

Originally Posted by Thaek

You need to compare apples to apples. Meaning Sony Numbers against Paramount Numbers. --> 130'000 : 190'000

What? Sony purposely waited for the Nielsen numbers to come in (reread the thread) while Paramount's numbers directly contradicted them. There is no "apples to apples" BS here; Paramount supplied numbers that are statistically impossible and Sony did not. Moreover, they did not include the SM3s sold as part of the box set, so they were very conservative.

As of now it looks like Transformers has sold better, but maybe the Nielsen Numbers tomorrow will tell us better.

There is no honest way in which it looks like TF sold better (on HD DVD) then SM3 did (on BD). We KNOW that Paramount's numbers are wrong, so using them is intellectually dishonest. If it turns out that Sony inflated their numbers THEN you can say we need to use only the Nielsen numbers...but do you really think that Sony would say they waited for the official numbers, just to lie about them a single day before Nielsen releases them?

Yeah, me niether.

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by Thaek

You need to compare apples to apples. Meaning Sony Numbers against Paramount Numbers. --> 130'000 : 190'000

As of now it looks like Transformers has sold better, but maybe the Nielsen Numbers tomorrow will tell us better.

Hopefully i will see you post again tomorrow we will see about it.

[MarekM]

info about TRANSFORMERS sales..

we have 3 different numbers...
================================================== ====

- first from PARAMOUNT 190,000

Paramount press release
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_...22163309990073

================================================== ====

- second from HMM - Home Media Magazine market research and studio estimates puts the actual number of units that sold through to consumers closer to 115,000

Blu-ray Maintains Edge Despite 'Tranformers'
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_ID=11439

================================================== ====

- third from VideoScan First Alert

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)

Blu-ray/HD DVD: Which Hollywood Studio Is Accused Of 'Big Ass, Fat, Stupid Lie'?
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/

================================================== ====


so I am pretty sure,that 190,000 number is SHIPPED not SOLD !

for me it's SP3 130k versus TF 90k

Marek

P.S. numbers and links from Grubert's thread on AVS

[scragham]

what's with the new posters who buy the HD DVD party line hook line and sinker?

missing your home waters at AVMS?

[jkcheng122]

wow 90k units? that's less than what Paramount reported they sold on first day.

[maygit]

since i am too new apparently to create a new thread and this movie has to do with my issue, i'll post here i guess.

I bought a PS3 at launch on like Nov. 22nd or w/e it was last year. I have it online so i download the updates everytime they come out and what not. I just recently purchased the spiderman trilogy and while watching the first movie, right at the part where MJ kisses Spiderman hanging upside down the movie freezes and either goes back to the PS3 "dashboard" if u will, or skips the movie ahead 10-15 min later. I took it back to best buy and swapped it for a new one and the new one does it on the exact same spot. The discs obviously don't have scratches on them, the odds of having 2 discs with a mess up in the same spot is extremely uncommon and i've never experienced this issue with any other movie including the 2nd and 3rd movies. Is anyone else having this same problem?

[jkcheng122]

Originally Posted by maygit

since i am too new apparently to create a new thread and this movie has to do with my issue, i'll post here i guess.

I bought a PS3 at launch on like Nov. 22nd or w/e it was last year. I have it online so i download the updates everytime they come out and what not. I just recently purchased the spiderman trilogy and while watching the first movie, right at the part where MJ kisses Spiderman hanging upside down the movie freezes and either goes back to the PS3 "dashboard" if u will, or skips the movie ahead 10-15 min later. I took it back to best buy and swapped it for a new one and the new one does it on the exact same spot. The discs obviously don't have scratches on them, the odds of having 2 discs with a mess up in the same spot is extremely uncommon and i've never experienced this issue with any other movie including the 2nd and 3rd movies. Is anyone else having this same problem?

i only watched the 3rd one out of my trilogy, i will have to check on this later tonight after the 2.0 update.

[stray]

I was one of the new posters above. Hope you don't mean me. I don't care what TF sales # is... Actually a little, but I won't try to quote any one of those numbers.

I also would like to add that although I didn't think that SM3 didn't deserve my money. I might've picked it up anyways. The fact that it came in a boxset with the other 2 made my purchase easier meant that SM3 SKU missed my sale. So the boxset hurting the single sale is a fact. If there was no boxset, SM3 would've sold between SM3 and SM3 + boxset sales.

Oh yeah. The Rat purchase for me was a no brainer. (If that makes any difference to people who are trying to count the sales of that.)

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by greekjgg

Not to sound negative AGAIN, but why would sony go through all the hype of releasing a statement about selling 130K and not specify the box set data which is half of the information we are seeking????

Overall guys, I think some folks in this room made the decision to go blu and can't have a truly objective opinion on some of these discussions. I am blu, but I am OBJECTIVE and I think I look at the big picture. Just as we acuse HD fanboys of not looking at the evidence, I think some of you do the same regarding blu. I want blu to win and I think we are, but I don't think we can say this is a HUGE victory, we did win, but we need to remain humble which is what I think we are not doing.

Dead wrong. It is your desire to see blu win which makes you fret over nonsense. People have been fretting over every little thing for months, especially TF, and every time I've made a prediction I've been right. Every time. I am absolutely objective because I look at the data and the circumstances only and do not let my emotions make me scared or create ghosts where there are none.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by ottscay

Everyone lacks objectivity from time to time (and some more than others) but I don't think you are looking at this particular subject any more objectively. If SM3 on BD took 6 days to beat Transformers first week sales on HD DVD even with sales being siphoned off by the PS3 giveaway AND the box set, while during the same time frame on reagular DVD Transformers was massively outselling SM3, then these numbers cannot really be looked at as anything but a huge success.

That's the point. He confuses being unrealistically negative as somehow meaning objective.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by greekjgg

Thanks for the help, but I think what makes me objective is that I DO consider evidence that isn't favorable to blu at times which is what I think some blu fanboys can't do and starts these lengthy discussion. Just because I play devil's advocate, I'm accused of trolling, not blu, etc.......
Just as HD fanboy's dismiss certain claims as false, so do some blu here.

I never accused you of trolling but merely of being boring. I've heard the same shit for a long time and I'm just better at dissecting the actual data than guys like you. You have the nerve to call other names like "fanboy" but pretend you are objective when in fact you are NOT looking at the overall data and circumstances. Many people have given you the rundown but you don't want to hear the facts. That is called not being objective.

[95pgtproject]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

every time I've made a prediction I've been right. Every time.

Your like the Nostradamus of the blu-ray.com forum but with more accuracy

LMAO

[roachxp]

Walmat has sold around 75K in Transformers HD-DVD the last 10 days but we wouldn't see numbers because Walmart and other don't report their numbers to Home Media Magazine or VideoScan First Alert. Even SM3 number from thoses retails don't show up. Transformers is got to be around 300K by now it not more after 3 good weeks in the top 5 sellers. Too bad Meet the Robinsons didn't do what everyone expected.

Parmount got realtime numbers direct from everyone of the companies they distribute too. I would say Sony probably did the same thing but there were 2 SKUs and Sony didn't say if they were combined or not. The SM boxset has sold better then the single SP3 for the last 2 weeks on Amazon.

[Alan Gordon]

A couple of notes here:

"Transformers": TF was one of the year's biggest films, and it was one of HD DVD's biggest releases this year... if not the biggest. When DreamWorks (let's not forget that "Transformers" was a DreamWorks release) announced exclusivity to HD DVD, I heard a LOT of people who were planning on buying the Blu-ray version announce they were going to be buying a HD DVD player just for this movie. Add that to the amount of people that players for both formats, and you've got a big hit. I also imagine that given the low price of HD DVD players, more Blu-ray owners have a HD DVD player than HD DVD owners have Blu-ray players. Though I have refused to purchase HD DVD since early this year with the exception of "Heroes: Season One" gave in to temptation and purchase "Transformers" as well since I was able to get it free with Circuit City's BOGO "sale" along with three Blu-ray's (and more from other stores). Add in the fact that someone else brought up here that "Transformers" is region-free and had quite a bit of imported sales brings up another good point.

BOX SET: I too purchased the Box Set instead of the single release... as I suspect a lot of people did. I'm reminded of when Paramount released the MI box set. When they released the numbers, they seperated the box set from the individual releases... not that Paramount's the best example to bring up when talking about release numbers.

Warner Bros. Someone here mentioned something along the lines of Sony not wanting to out Warner Bros. from having the #1 best selling title on Blu-ray. I understand this, but by the same token, Sony also wants to show Warner Bros. that Blu-ray has experienced growth these last few months since "300" debuted instead of appearing stagnant.

The "Numbers": I'm not really sure that I expected more from "Spider-Man 3" given the fact that the Box Set skewed the numbers... as did the free giveaway with the PS3... so I'm actually very pleased with these numbers. I also don't believe they included the Box Set with these numbers... and all I can say is that it will be VERY interesting seeing the numbers tomorrow.

Also, while I think it would have been wiser for Sony to have mentioned that this did not include Box Set sales, I understand why they chose to include that it did not include the "Spider-Man 3" from the PS3 since Toshiba would have been claiming that it did.

Also, note what I said above about Warner Brothers. By including the Box Set numbers in with the single release, they could/would take away Warner Bros. numbers from them, but by seperating them into two, WB keeps their crown, yet Sony shows growth in the Blu-ray format.

Also, something else I wanted to note was that when Paramount released numbers for "Transformers", and then those numbers were disputed, it made Paramount look crappy. By announcing these first 6 day numbers, Sony shows that they beat "Transformers", but still keeps an extra day and the Box Set numbers under their belt to have a psychological victory tomorrow when it announces that their numbers are actually higher when you count the seventh day and Box Set sales together.

"Ratatouille": I do believe "Ratatouille" will outsell "Spider-Man 3", and add in the fact that most people purchased it WITH at LEAST "Cars", the sales ratio next week should be GREAT for Blu-ray. Of course, I still think the greatest sales week will be the week of December 4th and December 18th.

~Alan