Official Sony KDL-40/46/52 XBR4/XBR5 Owners Thread

[gand41f]

Hi xivex,

Originally Posted by xivex

Gandalf,

I own the 46" XBR4 (see sig for model #)..I have read about fullpixel mode and often game on my ps3 or pc on this tv. I'd like to make sure I have this setting correct, but am not sure what "FULL PIXEL" is. I went into the TV's options XMB bar, went to screen, and I DO see the "Display Area" option. However, I only have -2,-1, NORMAL, +1 for my options under "Display Area". I currently have it set to NORMAL. Is this the equivalent of full pixel mode? Or should I set display area to +1?

"Full Pixel" will only appear for 1080p or 1080i content. "+1" is available for lower resolution signals for HDMI and also shows the entire content without overscanning. "Normal" has overscanning and "-1", "-2" has even more overscanning. So yes, if you are seeing "+1" instead of "Full Pixel", select that one instead, you're likely feeding 720p and 720->1080 is a (relatively) simple +50% scaling (while introducing overscanning will complicate the calculations by a fair amount).

By the way, one interesting thing I found out when I was playing around with PS3's settings -- if you have "BD 1080p 24 Hz Output" option set to "Automatic" in the BD/DVD Settings, then it will send 1080/24p to the TV even if the Video Output Settings in Display Settings doesn't include 1080p. (I know nobody will set up their PS3 this way, but it royally confused me for a while. )

Originally Posted by xivex

Also, what is the deal with motion enhancer and cinemotion? I've read many differing opinions on what these should be set to for Directv HD vs. Bluray playback. Can you offer any opinion on these? Should it be changed when switching sources? (directv vs bluray)

Thanks,

X

Motion Enhancer should be turned off while watching any film-based content (esp. Blu-ray) if you want a film-like motion. You can turn it on while watching non-film content on DirectTV if you like. Looks like some people like it, some don't.

CineMotion is for 3:2 cadence detection. It is useful only when you are feeding film-based content in 1080/60i. I'm not sure what the difference between Auto1 and Auto2 are. It should not do anything bad when you are watching other types of content, so I believe you can always leave it on.

Hope this helps!

enjoy
gandalf

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

5 Star ReviewSony Recalls and stops production of XBR4 52's
Strengths: This is my pick however, I'll need to wait until the design is fixed.
Weaknesses: Recall and production stop.
Summary: The Consumer show is in Denver this year (Sept 2007) and the Sony Sales and Engineer people have told my local high end theater store that they have put their 52" XBR's on production hold and have recalled the 52". They will not comment as to why.

This is dissapointing, since I am ready to make my purchase now. But I'll have to wait. I've looked at the Sharp, my 2nd choice, but the action is not as crisp. Ghosting remains an issue. Minor, but noticable.

If anyone hears when Sony will resume production on XBR 52's please post it.


BUT... CNET has in stock prices from 11 stores, so maybe this is wrong or just old.

Well, www.sonystyle.com claims that it has 52" XBR4's in stock and can ship tomorrow so I don't think there's a widespread production problem now.

Why don't you ask your local dealer?

enjoy
gandalf

[xivex]

Originally Posted by gand41f

Hi xivex,


"Full Pixel" will only appear for 1080p or 1080i content. "+1" is available for lower resolution signals for HDMI and also shows the entire content without overscanning. "Normal" has overscanning and "-1", "-2" has even more overscanning. So yes, if you are seeing "+1" instead of "Full Pixel", select that one instead, you're likely feeding 720p and 720->1080 is a (relatively) simple +50% scaling (while introducing overscanning will complicate the calculations by a fair amount).

By the way, one interesting thing I found out when I was playing around with PS3's settings -- if you have "BD 1080p 24 Hz Output" option set to "Automatic" in the BD/DVD Settings, then it will send 1080/24p to the TV even if the Video Output Settings in Display Settings doesn't include 1080p. (I know nobody will set up their PS3 this way, but it royally confused me for a while. )


Motion Enhancer should be turned off while watching any film-based content (esp. Blu-ray) if you want a film-like motion. You can turn it on while watching non-film content on DirectTV if you like. Looks like some people like it, some don't.

CineMotion is for 3:2 cadence detection. It is useful only when you are feeding film-based content in 1080/60i. I'm not sure what the difference between Auto1 and Auto2 are. It should not do anything bad when you are watching other types of content, so I believe you can always leave it on.

Hope this helps!

enjoy
gandalf

Thanks Gandalf!

It did help! I'm an idiot..I went back into the settings and found "FULL PIXEL". I am not sure wth I was doing before. Set "Full Pixel" for display area under screen. I also turned motion enhancer off and was already running cinemotion on auto2 for my inputs.

I tuned my set by eye and with the help of several A*V*S forum threads about XBR4 calibration. I'm sure it could be better, but it definitely improved the picture over the factory settings of vivid and maxed out everything. Looks much more natural now with less blur and cloud type gunk.

Thanks for the help!

X

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by xivex

Thanks Gandalf!

It did help! I'm an idiot..I went back into the settings and found "FULL PIXEL". I am not sure wth I was doing before. Set "Full Pixel" for display area under screen. I also turned motion enhancer off and was already running cinemotion on auto2 for my inputs.

I tuned my set by eye and with the help of several A*V*S forum threads about XBR4 calibration. I'm sure it could be better, but it definitely improved the picture over the factory settings of vivid and maxed out everything. Looks much more natural now with less blur and cloud type gunk.

Thanks for the help!

X

Good! You were probably looking at 720p content before. Maybe Fox or ABC on your DirecTV feed or a 720p only game on PS3.

Yes, not using Vivid definitely helps. I should probably add that to the tips.

enjoy
gandalf

[Seretur]

The review of the European version of the XBR4 -- the X3500 -- is up.

The reviewer notes that it "accepts 1080p/24 signal from PS3 – no telecine judder", just like its predecessor, the W3000 ("It would be criminal if the newer Sony HDTVs did not handle 1080p/24 properly, considering that this unmolested video output directly from Blu-ray discs is one of the major strength of another of Sony's key offering, the Playstation 3. There was never any doubt that the Sony KDL40W3000 would pass this with flying colours, removing telecine judder without any fuss.").

So I suppose this is as good as it can get on this continent. The X3500 accepts PAL, NTSC and SECAM signal, as local sets have for ages; I dunno how they handle the frequency, as my NTSC DVDs have all displayed considerably more judder than the PAL ones (then again, this is something I often noticed on the US TV screens, as opposed to the European ones).

For now, I'll be content with the assessment of the true 24p capability of the X3500, and the conclusion that it's the best LCD the reviewer ever tested. But as I don't need the Motionflow 100Hz enhancer, I might consider the W3000 with its "true 24p output" -- although I'd greatly appreciate any input in this.

[gand41f]

A comment on 3:2 pulldown (inverse telecine). I tried the (in)famous Vatican staircase scene from Mission: Impossible 3 and noticed 1080i will cause moire patterns even when CineMotion set to Auto1 or Auto2. 1080p (24 or 60Hz) won't show any of those. I asked Paidgeek in PM:

Originally Posted by gand41f

I have one question regarding inverse telecine though. You mentioned that this TV does a 3:2 pulldown on 1080i content correctly. I found at least one scene (unfortunately the only one I know what to look for) in which it fails. It's the beginning of chapter 8 in Mission: Impossible 3. As the camera is moving down the staircases of Vatican, there is some major moire pattern visible on the stairs. It seems to be worse with CineMotion set to Auto1 than to Auto2. With 1080p, there is almost no moire visible, so I'm assuming this is a problem of 3:2 pulldown.

and here is his reply:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

The displays do a pretty good job of detecting film cadence, but they have to reanalyze every scene at every cut. When a new scene cannot be easily correllated to film frames, the display will linger in interlace mode for a short while before finding the right cadence. Sony does this pretty quickly (usually within a few frames) some other displays can take up to several seconds.

Looks like there are some cases where inverse telecine doesn't work correctly on the XBR4/5. Make sure to output 1080p (preferably 1080/24p ) from your player.

enjoy
gandalf

[jsteinhauer]

I currently have a KDL 52XBR2.

I have a friend who might be interested in buying it, which would offset a good chunk of the cost of upgrading to the 52XBR4. Do y'all think the improvement I will see in picture and in action are worth the couple of grand that will have to come out of my pocket?

In other words, does "motionflow" really make sports look better, and does the 24p and 120Hz make a real noticeable difference in movies?

I really wasn't thinking about upgrading right now, but this guy was telling me what he was thinking of spending on lesser displays, so I made the offer which should be a good deal for us both, but I don't want to get the very short end of the deal. I'll just tell him my wife said "NO!", if I need to back out.

[cawgijoe]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

I currently have a KDL 52XBR2.

I have a friend who might be interested in buying it, which would offset a good chunk of the cost of upgrading to the 52XBR4. Do y'all think the improvement I will see in picture and in action are worth the couple of grand that will have to come out of my pocket?

In other words, does "motionflow" really make sports look better, and does the 24p and 120Hz make a real noticeable difference in movies?

I really wasn't thinking about upgrading right now, but this guy was telling me what he was thinking of spending on lesser displays, so I made the offer which should be a good deal for us both, but I don't want to get the very short end of the deal. I'll just tell him my wife said "NO!", if I need to back out.

The XBR4 is a better set....is it worth $2K after you sell your current set?...I guess that's up to you.....read this review:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/flatpan...s/907sonyxbr4/

It's the 46", but should pertain to the 52".

Here is a quick quote:

"Last year when I reviewed the 1080p Sony Bravia KDL-46XBR2, I concluded that it "really knocked me out." Now we have the new Bravia KDL-46XBR4. It's similar in many respects to the 46XBR2, but offers significant improvements. These include better black levels, a new, slick on-screen menu system, and 120Hz operation—a feature that's showing up in more and more high-end LCD sets. Depending on its implementation, a 120Hz refresh rate can reduce image smear with moving images—one of the lingering problems of LCD display technology."

[hienesey]

Very nice to have someone start a thread like this here. I've had my XBR4 for a little over a month and still tweaking it here and there.

[vektar]

I just got the KDL-46XBR4 and when i turn on the motion inhancer while watching blu ray movies theres really bad motion blur. Is that normal, i know i read that it should be turned off when watching blu rays but the 3d look is just so awesome.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by hienesey

Very nice to have someone start a thread like this here. I've had my XBR4 for a little over a month and still tweaking it here and there.

I'm glad you are here too. Anything interesting?

I've recently played with the "MPEG Noise Reduction" while watching broadcast HDTV. By setting it to High, it seems to reduce a lot of compression artifacts, at the expense of sharpness. Different channels have different levels of compression, so I need to adjust the setting all the time. I wish it had a per-channel memory for this stuff.

enjoy
gandalf

[Footloose301]

OFFICIAL XBR4 THREAD!
I feel like Rosa Parks. I've only got the XBR3









....looking intot the 52XBR5...

[hienesey]

Originally Posted by gand41f

I'm glad you are here too. Anything interesting?

I've recently played with the "MPEG Noise Reduction" while watching broadcast HDTV. By setting it to High, it seems to reduce a lot of compression artifacts, at the expense of sharpness. Different channels have different levels of compression, so I need to adjust the setting all the time. I wish it had a per-channel memory for this stuff.

enjoy
gandalf

I wish I could watch broadcast HDTV. I'm in an apartment, and my satellite guy said the dish wouldn't catch the signal since I'm facing the wrong way.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Footloose301

OFFICIAL XBR4 THREAD!
I feel like Rosa Parks. I've only got the XBR3

Sorry, you are welcome to join too. Didn't want to put too many models in the title as I have no idea what the XBR2/3 or S/V/W/A models are like.

Originally Posted by Footloose301

....looking intot the 52XBR5...

Just curious, you seem to like the XBR3/5...are you a home automation type guy?

enjoy
gandalf

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by hienesey

I wish I could watch broadcast HDTV. I'm in an apartment, and my satellite guy said the dish wouldn't catch the signal since I'm facing the wrong way.

I'm in an apartment too, without satellite because of the same reason. How far are you from the broadcast stations? The ATSC tuner in Sony LCDs seem to be pretty good (better than the Samsung tuner I had before). If you have rabbit ears or some other portable antenna, you may want to just give it a try.

I live almost 40 miles from the stations in San Francisco and could get most stations (but not all) using rabbit ears. I ended up getting one of these monsters:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html

and mount it indoors facing the wall. I need to rotate it a little sometimes (girlfriend came up with a nice idea using wire-mesh "cube" storage boxes as a base) but the reception is pretty much perfect. There is no building to our immediate north (between us and San Francisco), but there are four more units of the same apartment building to our north. Sometimes the reception changes, I wonder if my neighbor just rearranged their furniture.

These signals travel pretty far and as long as you don't have other buildings in your immediate vicinity that block your line of sight to the stations, you'll be surprised at what you can get.

enjoy
gandalf

[hienesey]

Hooked up some rabbit ears and got 5 HD channels, 4 are 1080i and one is 720p. Pretty sweet! Now I gotta tweak these settings.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by hienesey

Hooked up some rabbit ears and got 5 HD channels, 4 are 1080i and one is 720p. Pretty sweet! Now I gotta tweak these settings.

That's great to hear! You only have one 720p, are you missing one of Fox/ABC?

If you are a football fan, I hope your NBC affiliate has a better encoder than mine. Sunday Night Football looks terrible here.

enjoy
gandalf

[hienesey]

I don't have NBC or ABC which is weird. So no football for me which sucks.

Edit: Searched for digital channels again and got NBC-- signal is real bad.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by hienesey

I don't have NBC or ABC which is weird. So no football for me which sucks.

I take it you are a college football fan from that comment. There are some SEC games on CBS.

Originally Posted by hienesey

Edit: Searched for digital channels again and got NBC-- signal is real bad.

Try opening/closing the rabbit ears, lifting it and moving it around the room, etc. I could get everything except ABC fairly reliably using rabbit ears. With ABC I had to keep constantly adjusting the antenna while watching it. Eventually I got tired and got a bigger one.

You can try looking at

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

to see where your stations are, and what their frequencies are. In my experience, extreme high end (50s) and low end (10s) seem to be less reliable than the middle range.

enjoy
gandalf

[memebras]

here's my problem, hope ya can help me with some ideas Gandalf

i bought my XBR1 nov 2005 and i hate it. I feel like my money went straight to garbage. Its a KDS-R60XBR1, 2 reasons why i say this (not to mention the remote control that you have to press input several times to go from dvd to tv):

1) Black levels are horrible, and i do mean horrible, sometimes black is more like a magenta-kinda-color. Even watching shows and movies in HD from HBO, showtime HD, HDnet, etc, pretty much 30% of all horror movies and ocean movies like Titanic sucks! An American Haunting, you can't even dintinguish movie from strange-black scenes. I say horror movies because they tend to have more dark scenes than usual and its NEVER dark lol.. its a fuzzy pixelated strange blackish with gray color, so distracting

2) the motion is a headache! watching games, football, car race, etc it huge the amount of pixels. As i mentioned this i bought this begining of nov and right then my wife wanted to watch the victorias secret show from ABC HD, and i said, wat the hell, might as well watch the models. Worst experience of my life, both of us learned right there tv sucked! Never saw SO many pixels!!

I saw the new models in the store and its 100% better than mine, of course years later they fixed several problems.. So now i was eager on getting the new XBR5 52 inches or even wait till 2008 for the new 60 inches but i read your post in a different section that it wasn't a very good tv and now i'm afraid on buying this one as well.. this XBR4 has 120HZ, much better blacks (so i'm told), 24p and 10bit and also 3 hdmi inputs v1.3 ...is it worthy to spend money on this set?! or perhaps the 70 inches..

My wife and i were even thinking on getting a projector, but its way cheaper if get even the new KDS-Z70XBR5 which will be around $5,000, and it comes
with 12 bit, 24p, 4 HDMI inputs with v1.3, etc.. Should i wait or you think bigger size will bring headaches as well.. I know at the stores they always have the 40 inches cause smaller tend to be sharper and crisper than bigger sets.. so what should i do, get a 52 inches, wait for newly improved bigger size or is there a better tv out there?! any help would be greatly appreciated..

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665156111