INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

You said....

Please explain then...

[Show spoiler]Why can they float in a gravity free environment? Why do they witness streets folding and cars driving on the ceiling? Would these events not shock you into awareness that you are in a dream, someone elses, or your own?

You misinterpreted my statement.

[Show spoiler]Just because I said "the dream would collapse," it doesn't mean that the dreamer would wake up. Strictly speaking, I was referring to the environment in which the action takes place. The mission would fail because then the dreamer would subconsciously destroy the current dreamspace, which was carefully designed for their mission. I didn't say that the subject would wake up.

Originally Posted by Foggy

The dreamer already knew they were dreaming

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

[Show spoiler]When Ellen first discovered she was in a dream with Leo, why wasnt she shocked into "awake"? She became aware and stayed in the dream.

She wasn't shocked into awake.

[Show spoiler]When she first realized that she was in a dream with him, the dream started to collapse (everything exploding around them). The only reason that they woke up was because they took a face full of broken glass in the dream. That would constitute a very painful death-like kick out of the dreamspace. Had they not experienced that physical jolt, her subconscious would have carried on in creating another environment in which to allow events to transpire and Ariadne would be none the wiser.

[RocShemp]

I finally saw this today. I really liked it. However, I need to see it a few more times to decide wether I liked it as much or more than The Prestige (my absolute favorite Nolan film). However, I think I did like it better. :up:

[masoud90]

Petra still discussing Inception? Bravo brother!

[masoud90]

A question.

[Show spoiler]If Cobb and Mal grew old together, why was it that when they lay by the train tracks to die and wake up from limbo, they were young? A friend of mine brought this up and my interpretation was because Mal did not remember that they grew old together maybe (as she was reminded in the end). Any takes on this?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by masoud90

A question.

[Show spoiler]If Cobb and Mal grew old together, why was it that when they lay by the train tracks to die and wake up from limbo, they were young? A friend of mine brought this up and my interpretation was because Mal did not remember that they grew old together maybe (as she was reminded in the end). Any takes on this?

[Show spoiler]My take on it is they decided to do it but chickened out, at least once. It could just be that they forgot to make them look aged.

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by masoud90

A question.

[Show spoiler]If Cobb and Mal grew old together, why was it that when they lay by the train tracks to die and wake up from limbo, they were young? A friend of mine brought this up and my interpretation was because Mal did not remember that they grew old together maybe (as she was reminded in the end). Any takes on this?

I think that

[Show spoiler]once you're reminded of reality, in the dream you revert to how you are in real life. So Cobb rejuvinated once he accepted he was in a dream. Once he performed Inception on Mal, she reverted to her true physical state as well.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

I think that

[Show spoiler]once you're reminded of reality, in the dream you revert to how you are in real life. So Cobb rejuvinated once he accepted he was in a dream. Once he performed Inception on Mal, she reverted to her true physical state as well.

[Show spoiler]That argument would work except look what happened to Saito, since one would assume he would know how to get out of limbo. Of course it could be that he simply didn't realize he was down there.

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

[Show spoiler]That argument would work except look what happened to Saito, since one would assume he would know how to get out of limbo. Of course it could be that he simply didn't realize he was down there.

Recall

[Show spoiler]Saito's comments to Cobb. He barely recognized him. He wasn't ware he was in limbo. He needed Cobb to get him out. And Cobb hearing Saitos' recollections is what snapped him out of limbo just in time.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Recall

[Show spoiler]Saito's comments to Cobb. He barely recognized him. He wasn't ware he was in limbo. He needed Cobb to get him out. And Cobb hearing Saitos' recollections is what snapped him out of limbo just in time.

[Show spoiler]I thought Cobb overcame Mal and got out on his own with Ariadne and Fischer. It was Saito that died from his wounds and fell into limbo for 50 years, pretty sure. Makes you wonder what happened, Saito was gone and Fischer dissolved his empire so who rose to the top?

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

[Show spoiler]I thought Cobb overcame Mal and got out on his own with Ariadne and Fischer. It was Saito that died from his wounds and fell into limbo for 50 years, pretty sure. Makes you wonder what happened, Saito was gone and Fischer dissolved his empire so who rose to the top?

[Show spoiler]Fischer and Ariadne left limbo and were kicked up with the rest of the team. Cobb eventually found Saito and they both got out of limbo. They are both shown waking up on the plane...hence how Cobb was even able to get into the country.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Diesel

[Show spoiler]Fischer and Ariadne left limbo and were kicked up with the rest of the team. Cobb eventually found Saito and they both got out of limbo. They are both shown waking up on the plane...hence how Cobb was even able to get into the country.

I'm done reading Diesel's posts, all he does is argue with me. So glad I decided to go see this earlier this month, it exceeded my expectations greatly and reminded me why I put up with so many distractions to see a movie in theatres. Need to remember to push this movie at work this week so I'll have more people to discuss it with.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by kefrank

[Show spoiler]You still haven't explained why the projections start noticing Arthur when Mr. Charles is helping Fischer become aware that he's in a dream. This is easily remembered because Arthur kisses Ariadne, she says, "they're still looking at us" and he says, "it was worth a shot." Why would they start looking at him if he wasn't doing anything except sitting there and not changing anything? The only explanation is that it's because he's the dreamer.

[Show spoiler]It was Fischers subconcious, he's the one dreaming, but they are inside Arthers dream.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by masoud90

A question.

[Show spoiler]If Cobb and Mal grew old together, why was it that when they lay by the train tracks to die and wake up from limbo, they were young? A friend of mine brought this up and my interpretation was because Mal did not remember that they grew old together maybe (as she was reminded in the end). Any takes on this?

Since it is

[Show spoiler]Cobb's memory that we are witnessing and not the actual event, I'm sure that he has remembered it as it should have been and not how it actually was perceived by him at the time. He could still see both of them as young people in his minds eye since he knew that it was just a dream. That's why we don't see them lie on the tracks as elderly people until much later on when it is presented to us from a less specific perspective than Cobb's personal recollection.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

[Show spoiler]I thought Cobb overcame Mal and got out on his own with Ariadne and Fischer. It was Saito that died from his wounds and fell into limbo for 50 years, pretty sure. Makes you wonder what happened, Saito was gone and Fischer dissolved his empire so who rose to the top?

Nope. Completely wrong on that one.

[Show spoiler]Cobb was doomed to limbo with Saito for 2 reasons. #1 being that Mal (his own guilt projection) had stabbed him in the limbo which he was in via direct connection with Fischer in the previous dream level. Dying would have caused him lose that link with Fischer and, because of the heavy sedation, would have thrown him into limbo. And since everyone dreaming shares the same unconstructed dreamspace with each other, he just needed to find Saito since they were both there together.

As for the second part of your statement about "who rose to the top." You have to remember the time expansion details of limbo. 50 years to Saito was only a matter of minutes on the plane. So, nobody took over the company from Fischer and Saito was never really "gone." His 50 years in limbo wasn't 50 years in the real world and Fischer hadn't even dissolved the company yet. When he woke on the plane is when he would have first realized that he was actually going to split his fathers empire. So, none of that had happened yet.

[bytor_one]

I decided to see this again, by myself this time so I didnt have to worry about my girlfriend hating it, which of course she did, as well as pretty much everyone else around me as we were leaving the theater.

I still really dont like this movie at all after a second viewing. I have a strong grasp on the concept and story so thats not my problem with it. They go into these dream sequences and you would expect with Nolan's skill for them to look interesting, but instead they look like lame 90s action movies. Standard issue car chases and gunfights. Only thing somewhat creative was the zero G fight at the end, which has been done before anyway.

Still have the same complaints as before that this being the first movie Nolan wrote himself in a very long time, it really shows. He just not a great writer, great director though which is what he needs to stick with. Just focus on that and dont spread yourself too thin. I really got the sense watching this movie that this was a guy out of his element in areas.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by bytor_one

I decided to see this again, by myself this time so I didnt have to worry about my girlfriend hating it, which of course she did, as well as pretty much everyone else around me as we were leaving the theater.

I still really dont like this movie at all after a second viewing. I have a strong grasp on the concept and story so thats not my problem with it. They go into these dream sequences and you would expect with Nolan's skill for them to look interesting, but instead they look like lame 90s action movies. Standard issue car chases and gunfights. Only thing somewhat creative was the zero G fight at the end, which has been done before anyway.

Still have the same complaints as before that this being the first movie Nolan wrote himself in a very long time, it really shows. He just not a great writer, great director though which is what he needs to stick with. Just focus on that and dont spread yourself too thin. I really got the sense watching this movie that this was a guy out of his element in areas.

+1.
It could have been so much more imaginative movie than it was here.
Just think of the movie where dreams may come.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by bytor_one

I decided to see this again, by myself this time so I didnt have to worry about my girlfriend hating it, which of course she did, as well as pretty much everyone else around me as we were leaving the theater.

I still really dont like this movie at all after a second viewing. I have a strong grasp on the concept and story so thats not my problem with it. They go into these dream sequences and you would expect with Nolan's skill for them to look interesting, but instead they look like lame 90s action movies. Standard issue car chases and gunfights. Only thing somewhat creative was the zero G fight at the end, which has been done before anyway.

Still have the same complaints as before that this being the first movie Nolan wrote himself in a very long time, it really shows. He just not a great writer, great director though which is what he needs to stick with. Just focus on that and dont spread yourself too thin. I really got the sense watching this movie that this was a guy out of his element in areas.

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

+1.
It could have been so much more imaginative movie than it was here.
Just think of the movie where dreams may come.

Oh wow... some people really need their dream related entertainment to be wacky in order for it to be considered good entertainment? The "uninteresting," "lame 90's action sequences," not "more imaginative" aspects of Inception are what make it work for crying out loud. If Nolan wrote the film to be more like What Dreams May Come, it would have been an absolute disaster of a project. The idea is to keep the dreams as much of a real place with the real environmental affects of the real world in place. To break with an illusion of reality would make the task of the team absolutely impossible! Nolan is not saying that the dreamspace can't be purple elaphants training monkeys to ride roller skates!!! He's just saying that these particular dreamspaces need to be controlled in order for his characters to do their jobs.

[Mike53421]

Spoilerific image explaining the different layers...

Credit: FilmSchoolRejects.com

[Show spoiler]

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Mike53421

Spoilerific image explaining the different layers...

Credit: FilmSchoolRejects.com

[Show spoiler]

Would be nice if they got some of the characters titles right. Saito is "The Tourist" and Fischer is "The Mark"

[bytor_one]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Oh wow... some people really need their dream related entertainment to be wacky in order for it to be considered good entertainment? The "uninteresting," "lame 90's action sequences," not "more imaginative" aspects of Inception are what make it work for crying out loud. If Nolan wrote the film to be more like What Dreams May Come, it would have been an absolute disaster of a project. The idea is to keep the dreams as much of a real place with the real environmental affects of the real world in place. To break with an illusion of reality would make the task of the team absolutely impossible! Nolan is not saying that the dreamspace can't be purple elaphants training monkeys to ride roller skates!!! He's just saying that these particular dreamspaces need to be controlled in order for his characters to do their jobs.

Im not saying take it over the edge like other movies have with dreams in them, but the way he went with it didnt work for me either. The action was so standard issue action movie stuff that I rolled my eyes more than a couple times. Im not just talking about how it looked. You could pull many of those scenes out and fit them right in the middle of a steven seagal movie and I really dont think they would be all that out of place.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Foggy

[Show spoiler]It was Fischers subconcious, he's the one dreaming, but they are inside Arthers dream.

[Show spoiler]First of all, this still doesn't address the issue I brought up. Second of all, we seem to have a semantic disconnect, so let me try to level-set our conversation. Technically, they're all "dreaming" in the sense that they're all in the dreamworld together. Fischer is certainly dreaming in the sense that his subconscious is filling the dreamworld with projections and subconscious information - but I call that person "the subject" not "the dreamer" because that's what they call him in the movie. In the level in question, Arthur is who I call "the dreamer" because it's his dream - he's the one that is constructing the dreamworld for Fischer to populate with his subconscious.

Much earlier in the conversation, I said that the subject's projections start to go after the dreamer when they begin realizing they're in a dream. In that statement, I'm using the term "dreamer" exactly as defined above - the person who is constructing and possibly changing the dreamworld that the subject populates with their subconscious. You said that they go after the person "messing with their mind." Perhaps we were talking about the same thing, but I still can't tell. One thing is clear though - only one person hooked up to the machine at a time can construct (or change) the layout of the dreamworld itself and that's the person that the regular projections start to notice and go after. In the training dream, that person is Ariadne and in level 2 of the heist, that person is Arthur.

In the training dream, Cobb is the subject whose subconscious is populating the dreamworld whose layout was entirely constructed and changed by Ariadne. This is confirmed by the fact that when Cobb goes into the dreamworld with others, he never wants to know the layout ahead of time, because Mal can easily find them and disrupt things. Mal ends up finding them anyway, because Ariadne constructs a real location from memory that Cobb also once experienced with Mal. However, Cobb would not have intentionally gone into the dreamworld as "the dreamer" (according to my definition) who designed the dreamworld layout, because that would have guaranteed that Mal would show up and interrupt the training.