Public perception about the format war (article)

[greekjgg]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/11/prweb571658.htm

According to this, pricepoint supercedes content.

Any NON-biased thoughts???

I think this is true, but with the announcement today about the new cheaper players coming out for blu, our current buys blu time to implement cheaper players.

[N2DVD]

I am new to these forums and relatively new to BOTH HD formats. I did buy one of the sub-$100 HD players from Walmart in early November, and just purchased the Sony BDP-S300 late last week when the price dropped to $350, then they added 10 discs on top of that. I realize that I am probably in the minority for having both formats, but to me, it's about the movies, not the formats. I currently have 1000+ standard DVDs, and at this point, I only intend to upgrade a select few. In order to get the movies I want, I have to support both formats, and in some case, I will have to settle for SD discs as well. The above mentioned article just shows what it all really comes down to - price point on players AND software.

[itsfatboy]

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

I'm sorry, what OTHER CE manufacturers are supporting HD-DVD???

Not Onkyo.

Venturer? Please... it's just a rehashed Toshiba.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

Also, please stop comparing this to the VHS/Betamax war, this is NOT the same thing, nor is it the same day and age.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by sj001

Also, please stop comparing this to the VHS/Betamax war, this is NOT the same thing, nor is it the same day and age.

I agree... the people who are consistently spending their hard earned money on their home entertainment (and I stress CONSISTENTLY) are going to do research. Today's "high rolling" consumers do their research first. And, learning of technical superiority of Blu-ray, will know that it is a sound investment that will fulfill the value of the price tag. AND, more importantly, they are the ones who are buying 2-10 Blu-ray titles a week, EVERY week. J6P who doesn't research, buys based on the price of the player but buys 2-10 HD DVD titles per couple of months. At that rate, it's all downhill for their "investment".

[richard lichtenfelt]

Sony co-developed DVD, but lets focus on vcrs from the '70's. Ridiculous.
Ipods are the most expensive mp3 players and outsell everyone else combined.
Retailers will be playing a part in ending this that most people seem oblivious to. With blu-rays outselling hd dvds at roughly 2 to 1 it won't be long before more retailers dump hd dvd to use their allocated space to expand their blu-ray section. This has already begun to happen and will continue to pick up speed.
If you think that stores are going to continue selling hd dvd when they make next to no commission on the sale of players and the movies sell poorly then you must live next to the gum drop forest on candy cane lane.

[UrMyBoyBlu]

Also, please stop comparing this to the VHS/Betamax war, this is NOT the same thing, nor is it the same day and age.

I am going to have to agree with sj001. This is a new era in technology we live in. Back then there wasn't this thing called the internet. People had to go based on what was told by friends, radio, tv, etc. There was no simple way to investigate/research the better product, so obviously they would just go with the cheaper alternative. Besides, blu-ray has the backing of more major studios and electronics companies. I don't think Sony CAN lose this "war". At the very least I see a draw... but that is being pessimistic. More than likely HD-DVD will lose support and slowly fade, maybe not entirely, but certainly into the background.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

First, I was around when VHS and Beta were available and I can tell you that the "Cheaper" VHS players were not cheap. I paid $600.00 for one in 1980. Thats 1980's money. Relatively speaking, that makes it at lease $1200.00 in todays money.

Which am I going to buy? BD or HD DVD? Just go into a BB and look at the HD movie selection. If I was green to all this and took a look at the number and quality of available titles on BD, I would choose Blu-ray in a New York Minute. Your perception is that Joe Blow out there only wants cheap. Maybe thats what you are looking for with your intent to purchase into HD DVD now, but I can assure you that given the fact that BD is outselling HD DVD, (even with slightly higher player prices) People are up-grading to High Def. More expensive TVs, Receivers and HD Players. Clearly the cheap and uniformed public are going with quality and are willing to do so. An HD DVD player for $199.00 does not even enter the equasion.; If anything, I personally would be very suspicious about such a low price and grab the nearest floor rep to see what the real story is here.

[SingingTheBlues]

People bought VHS because it recorded longer. Was media also cheaper?

I could be wrong on this, but the first BETA tapes were under 2 hours, correct? That would keep you from recording a lot of movies, and would be a huge turn-off. If this were true, I would have no doubt that Sony relied on this as a form of early copy protection.

[Frode]

The article claims people were paying attention to HD DVD over Blu-ray, but where's the resulting change in sales figures? Those walmart players hasn't seemed to do a thing to the stalemate. What good is public perception, when the public doesn't follow up that perception with their hard-earned dollars? That's the real failure of the article IMO - it looks at the opinions of non-paying customers and doesn't establish a proper cause and effect for actual market changes.

[mystiksuicide]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

Some people just can't seem to think this through, how sad

[xtop]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

If anything, I personally would be very suspicious about such a low price and grab the nearest floor rep to see what the real story is here.

you do that because youre a smart shopper. i worked 5 years in retail. i assure you joe blow is not nearly as savvy. not going against what youre saying, but you give the average consumer too much credit imo

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by xtop

you do that because youre a smart shopper. i worked 5 years in retail. i assure you joe blow is not nearly as savvy. not going against what youre saying, but you give the average consumer too much credit imo

In what kind of retail? I have no illusions that people make uniformed purchases, but the point I was trying to stress is that People are paying for HD TVs for anywhere from $1500 to $5,500. They may also be up-grading to a nice receiver to take advantage of the sound capabilities of HD. The price difference of $199.00 for an HD DVD player as compared to a BD player is approx $150.00 more. After spending all that and getting some general information from sales people during the questions/purchase of the HD TV, and possibly a new receiver, they will have some basic knowledge about the two different HD movie formats to make a decision on and a difference of $150 bucks becomes neglegable. I give the general public a little more credit than a horde of zombies walking into a BB and pointing at the cheapest everything to get into HD.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by xtop

you do that because youre a smart shopper. i worked 5 years in retail. i assure you joe blow is not nearly as savvy. not going against what youre saying, but you give the average consumer too much credit imo

I think also when people are buying this sort of stuff, they get opinions from friends and co-workers and such. I worked in retail in a previous life, selling computers, some were el-cheapo crap, MOST people would come to us, the salespeople to figure out why they were so cheap, and we would tell them why. Sure, there would be a few people who would snap them up, but going back to the current scenario, those also are not the types of consumers that will be buying a lot of HD-Media. Let alone at the prices they are at.

[Manco]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

So by your reasoning... explain how the automobile, computers, telephones and everthing else introduced to mankind via the invention process began selling at a much higher price than the average caveman could afford, but today is enjoyed by billions around the world at a reasonable price.

I don't think you have a basic understanding on economics or ecomonies-of-scale.

Selling HD-DVD players at or below production cost is not a business model. It's corporate suicide.

[Gio]

how do they figure the stalemate was broken, they still havent gained any ground, in fact theyre still losing ground, in both hardware and software sales

[Gio]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

1) joe six pack that wants a cheap player, doesnt want to spend an average of $30 a disc he'll rent

2) joe six pack is confused so he'll wait till the format war is over.

3) people shouldn't think we have total control whos going to win, software sales help (where BLU constantly wins worldwide) but manufacturing companies do, you think lets say pioneer is going to give up, and let toshiba get all the money, not likely

4) sony, fox and disney are relentless in their efforts to ensure blu-ray victory

5) if anyone is following in the footsteps of the betamax war its toshiba

6) paramount also made the mistake of supporting and promoting DIVIX much in the same way that they are promoting HD-DVD

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by itsfatboy

Well I only have about 50 DVD's and I have a BR player.
I had 8 BR disks before I had my player.
I intend on having both formats
What this article is saying mimics what I have been saying here already.

Joe 6 pack chose the cheaper VHS units over the vastly superior , yet more expensive, BETAMAX.

The same will happen with Hidef DVD.

If Toshiba gets their foot in the door with sub $200 players, they stand to gain a big market share. At $20 for a movie, J6P can buy an HD DVD player and 10 movies, (not including the crap in those 5 free movie deals), for the same price as a BR player. Pretend you're J6P and not an informed BR fanboy.
Which one are you going to buy. Which one will your friends buy? Relatives?


J6P isn't interested in the techno-babble. he wants hidef and he wants it cheap. If he can get it , the more expensive format will either have to reduce their price to match the bottom feeders, or they will die. The market for the high end AV crowd is just too small , theres not enough$ in it to recoup ROI.

I am encouraged to see other manufacturers coming online , producing cheapo players. While I love my BR player, its mostly because I've nothing to compare it to. When I get my HD DVD player, I will be able to compare on even footing.

Frankly, I predict Sony will lose the battle, its the price of the hardware that will drive the market. That doesn't mean I will sell my BR player, there's still plenty of good reasons to hang on to it.

Do you really know why Beta lost. It was a few things.

1. Sony would not license the product. Where JVC did.
Who does that more like today? We have Toshiba vs every other CE for the most part.

2. Recording time.
Beta was too short.

3. porn.
In those days a big deal donot feel it is anymore since you can get plenty off the internet or PPV.

4. cost
The cost of VHS came down due to many CEs making it. Not one artifically dropping the price.


Now you suppose the same thing will happen in HDM as happned then.

Then explain the IPod the most expensive MP3 player there is yet it is also the most popular.

Where price plays a part in any choice made. But the choice to blow players out has cost them a CE. Which is what they need more than anything really. Both formats are at different paths on the course. I think they felt they had to get more machines in the market place or this was over. But now that is the price people are expecting to pay for it. Where BD has a very large untapped mass of people with player, PS3, so they need software out. This is the BOGO sales ect. Which one is the better choice really only time will tell. But getting more software out is helping sales which is really what this will come down to. Software.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

Which am I going to buy? BD or HD DVD? Just go into a BB and look at the HD movie selection. If I was green to all this and took a look at the number and quality of available titles on BD, I would choose Blu-ray in a New York Minute.

When I upgraded to HDM in the past year, my shopping trip was with one intent, to purchase an LCD TV. That was the only product researched. The upgrade to HDM was an impulse purchase driven by two things. One, BB had a Blu-ray display, and after seeing it, there was no way I could keep watching movies at home in SD. My decision to go with BD was partially that the salesperson had a favorable opinion of it, and no opinion of HDDVD, but mostly after looking at the title selection. I just can't see anyone looking at the selection of titles (the barest, barest minimum of product research) and choosing HDDVD.

I would say that 9 out of 10 of my colleagues have a vague idea that there is some "format war", but probably don't even know the names of the two formats, if asked and don't even have HDTVs. From the "public" people that I know, there is not much of a public perspective, even yet.