Fantasia / Fantasia 2000 (1940-1999) (Special Edition)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by bigshot

I work in animation, and I heard a great story about Fantasia 2000...

The surviving members of the nine old men- Marc Davis, Frank Thomas, Ward Kimball and Ollie Johnston were invited to the studio to view a pose reel for the Donald Duck Pomp and Circumstance sequence. When they arrived, Roy Disney told them for old time's sake, they would like each of them to animate one scene in the cartoon. They could pick any scene they wanted from the animatic.

They sat down in a screening room and the animatic was shown to them. It was awful. At the end of it, there was a brief uncomfortable silence, and Marc Davis said, "if you'll excuse me for a moment gentlemen, I have to use the restroom." He got up and left, and while he was gone, Roy spoke excitedly about how this would be the continuing of Walt's vision for Fantasia. He got around again to asking if they saw any scenes that they would like to animate. The old guys hemmed and hawed and said they should wait for Marc to come back from the bathroom.

A few minutes went by and Kimball got up and volunteered to go find Marc. Frank and Ollie sat there smiling nervously At Roy for a few minutes, and finally Ollie whispered, "You know Frank, I don't think Ward and Marc are coming back." They got up, shook Roy's hand with a sheepish smile and said goodbye.

You won't hear that story in the supplements!

Considering it's 100% bullshit, I can see why.

[Jim Purcell]

Originally Posted by benbess

Good story! Funny!

But I still like 2000 almost as much as the original. And for me it wasn't Roy who killed disney animation, but Eisner, Pixar, etc..

Except Pixar is directly responsible for SAVING Disney 2D animation.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Considering it's 100% bullshit, I can see why.

Are you saying the story is bullshit? Cause it sounds like it.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Jim Purcell

Are you saying the story is bullshit? Cause it sounds like it.

At the time Frank Thomas and Marc Davis would've still been alive (and in their 80's), the Donald Duck segment wouldn't have been in the Pomp & Circumstance form we see it today.
At least, that's as much as I know it, and I'd welcome any more mythbusting details Ernest can fill, if he's not too cranky to.

[filmmusic]

Too bad they didn't include the deleted Fantasia segment "Clair De Lune" which was in the original DVD.
Since they are trying to make something good here, why on earth don't they at least include all the extras of previous versions??

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by F-Man

Just as an aside (feel free to ignore it), Fantasia enthusiasts should check out Tezuka's Legend of the Forest, currently available on DVD as part of The Astonishing Work of Tezuka Osamu (worth buying for that short alone, but the rest is cool too).

I bought Legend of the Forest about three years ago as a stand-alone digital short, and it knocked my socks off. Absolutely wonderful. Thanks for the heads-up on the DVD.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Jim Purcell

Are you saying the story is bullshit? Cause it sounds like it.

I'll be generous and just assume the story is a telephone-wire bastardization of a true event - it wasn't Davis, Thomas, Johnston, and Kimball who refused to work on the Donald Duck version of Pomp and Circumstance...it was the animators (old and current) absolutely refusing to work on the version of "Pomp and Circumstance" envisioned by Michael Eisner. Eisner, attending a graduation ceremony, had the inspiration to use the old warhorse "Pomp and Circumstance" in what was then known as Fantasia Continued (at this time, they were taking that name very literally...plans were to not even have opening credits, you'd sit in your seat, the lights would go down, and then the famous first four notes of Beethoven's 5th would blast from the screen and Fanasia Continued would simply pick up where the last film stopped). For a concept, Eisner envisioned "Pomp and Circumstance" as a parade of Disney characters marching by the screen in time with the music. Eisner then thought it would be great if famous Disney couples (Snow White and the Prince, Eric and Ariel, etc.) would be joined by their children. If one ever wanted to know what the offspring of Belle and the Beast looked like, this would have been your chance.

Well, as related in DisneyWar, the idea went over like a lead balloon. The animators *hated* the idea. Roy had to eventually tell Eisner no one would work on it. Insulted, Eisner grew angry himself. He relented on his idea for the visual complement to "Pomp and Circumstance", but he told Roy the music was absolutely going to stay in the film. Now forced to use one of the most overly-familiar, cliched pieces of classical music imaginable, Roy and his team went about trying to make *something* of the piece.

More to come...

[BellesPrince]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Eisner then thought it would be great if famous Disney couples (Snow White and the Prince, Eric and Ariel, etc.) would be joined by their children. If one ever wanted to know what the offspring of Belle and the Beast looked like, this would have been your chance.

Not sure if you're trying to be funny with your allusions to bestiality, but it just comes across as a bit sick. The offspring of Belle and the 'Prince' would naturally be as human as anyone else. Or perhaps in your strange little world, Ariel & Erics would be merfolk and Tiana would have tadpoles?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by BellesPrince

Not sure if you're trying to be funny with your allusions to bestiality, but it just comes across as a bit sick. The offspring of Belle and the 'Prince' would naturally be as human as anyone else. Or perhaps in your strange little world, Ariel & Erics would be merfolk and Tiana would have tadpoles?

No, sir. In my strange little world, they never gave "the Prince" a name in the movie, Beauty and the Beast, aside from constantly calling him "Beast". I had already referred to Snow White and the Prince, and to avoid confusion, lacking any given name for the person in Beauty and the Beast other than "Beast", I used the name for the character used constantly in the movie. If you want to imagine toddler tadpoles and bipedal bison babies, that's your perogative.

[toddly6666]

I had no plan on buying this bluray until just reading that this blu is coming with Disney/Dali short film Destino in HD!

[facechubb]

Not sure if this has already been asked...sorry if it has!
Is there any way to use the $10 off coupon from disneymovierewards on Amazon?

If not, is there an existing $10.00 off coupon specifically for Fantasia on Amazon?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Skrillex]

Originally Posted by facechubb

Not sure if this has already been asked...sorry if it has!
Is there any way to use the $10 off coupon from disneymovierewards on Amazon?

If not, is there an existing $10.00 off coupon specifically for Fantasia on Amazon?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately no, Amazon.com doesn't accept the coupons.

[Ernest Rister]

(continued)

Where the story goes wrong and into the 100% b.s. category is this...The parade of Princesses and characters concept was actually pitched to the animators, with Michael Eisner present. Eisner even had the idea of having the four surviving nine old men animate a particular character, while the rest of the current animators did the rest. Marc Davis would draw Tinker Bell, Frank and Ollie would do Balloo, etc. A story reel was shown to all the animators and to the surviving 9 Old Men. As the story reel of Eisner's concept progressed, the room grew uncomfortable. The gags and ideas fell flat. The piece wasn't working. None of the current animators said anything, with Eisner present in the room. Director and directing animator Eric Goldberg said, " “But thank God for the old guys because they were the first ones to chime in." Per Goldberg, Ward Kimball said, "Why, this is the biggest piece of shit I've ever seen! It's just a big commercial!"

The Pomp and Circumstance concept with Eisner's Character Parade was dropped soon after. Eisner, angry over the snub, demanded that the music stay in the film, even if the animators would not work on his parade idea.

Forced to work with the music, the producers assigned the task of adaptation to director Francis Glebas. Glebas previously pitched a Fantasia idea called 'Noah's Dove' based on the story of Noah's Ark set to 'The Barber of Seville". Meanwhile, another Fantasia sequence was in development based on Donald and the myth of Icarus. The marching animals two-by-two of "Noah's Dove" seemed to be a logical accompaniment for Pomp and Circumstance. 'Noah's Dove' was revived, only the dove was replaced with Donald, and 'Pomp and Circumstance' replaced 'The Barber of Seville'. The animators jokingly referred to it as 'Noah's Duck'.

The production team paired with Professor Peter Schickele to figure out how to make Elgar meet Genesis. "Of Elgar's five marches, we used four, giving us the freedom to custom-tailor the music of the animated story." (Culhane, Fantasia/2000: Visions of Hope, p. 132-133).

And strangely enough, out of all this, the crafted piece eventually turned out to be the best story-driven Donald Duck short since the days of Jack Hannah. It is a winning short, with a degree of emotional pathos well-suited for the deep-feeling, short tempered duck.

Anyhow, that's the truth of what happened.

Regards,

ER3

[Jim Purcell]

Good story. Better then the hearsay.

Originally Posted by BellesPrince

Not sure if you're trying to be funny with your allusions to bestiality, but it just comes across as a bit sick. The offspring of Belle and the 'Prince' would naturally be as human as anyone else. Or perhaps in your strange little world, Ariel & Erics would be merfolk and Tiana would have tadpoles?

Try not to over think this stuff. It makes you sound like a weirdo who can't handle a little bit of fantasy.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The Pomp and Circumstance concept with Eisner's Character Parade was dropped soon after. Eisner, angry over the snub, demanded that the music stay in the film, even if the animators would not work on his parade idea.

Since the first days of 90's Disney depended on a classic sequel to validate their "ownership" of the Old Days under their own production--and back then, believe it or not, they didn't know HOW to sequelize a happily-ever-after movie except for Rescuers, Fantasia or Mary Poppins--Eisner had everything riding on a Fantasia extension, and his ideas were notoriously loopy:
At one point, explaining how the idea was creatively open, he told reporters they "could even use Beatles music".
(Fans started buying up last copies of the VHS release in a panic.)

Meanwhile, another Fantasia sequence was in development based on Donald and the myth of Icarus.

(To "Ride of the Valkyries", no less.)

And strangely enough, out of all this, the crafted piece eventually turned out to be the best story-driven Donald Duck short since the days of Jack Hannah. It is a winning short, with a degree of emotional pathos well-suited for the deep-feeling, short tempered duck.

And just as Sorcerer's Apprentice cemented the idea of Mickey Mouse in posterity's mind by establishing his "Little guy against the odds" character, it may be that when we picture Donald Duck, Noah's Ark may be his ultimate Frustration mode.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Since the first days of 90's Disney depended on a classic sequel to validate their "ownership" of the Old Days under their own production--and back then, believe it or not, they didn't know HOW to sequelize a happily-ever-after movie except for Rescuers, Fantasia or Mary Poppins--Eisner had everything riding on a Fantasia extension, and his ideas were notoriously loopy:
At one point, explaining how the idea was creatively open, he told reporters they "could even use Beatles music".
(Fans started buying up last copies of the VHS release in a panic.)



(To "Ride of the Valkyries", no less.)



And just as Sorcerer's Apprentice cemented the idea of Mickey Mouse in posterity's mind by establishing his "Little guy against the odds" character, it may be that when we picture Donald Duck, Noah's Ark may be his ultimate Frustration mode.

Going to be hard to replace Donald struggling to ring that gong on the Mickey Mouse Club in my mind as the most iconic Donald (and I've always wondered if Daffy's rivalry with Bugs in Friz Freling's "Show Biz Bugs" in 1957 was inspired by Donald's similar rivalry with Mickey during the opening of the Mickey Mouse Club in 1954). To me, that's Donald, or Donald in those great 40's and 50's shorts as the world's worst Uncle. Still, the F2k short is easily the best Donald short in about 50 years, and that's saying something.

[Ernest Rister]

Reviews coming in...

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Still waiting on...

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[mars2878]

ill be picking up my copy tuesday for about $13-14 after the $10 coupon & an additional $5 off when bought @ the same time as the sorcerer's apprentice

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Eisner had everything riding on a Fantasia extension, and his ideas were notoriously loopy:
At one point, explaining how the idea was creatively open, he told reporters they "could even use Beatles music".
(Fans started buying up last copies of the VHS release in a panic.)

There would have been nothing wrong with a newly created version of Fantasia using Beatles music, especially from their psychedelic era, except that Yellow Submarine (which is also being apparently remade) already covered that area. (And I mean new animations, not using the existing visuals with Beatles music.)

But think of great animations to songs like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Penny Lane", "Within You, Without You", "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "A Day In The Life", "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Octopus' Garden", "Sexy Sadie", "Nowhere Man", "Glass Onion", "Hello Goodbye", "Across the Universe", "Helter Skelter", "I Am the Walrus", "All You Need Is Love", etc. The possibilities are unlimited.

[Lorddh]

Toys R Us is having it for 26.99. Just n FYI

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

There would have been nothing wrong with a newly created version of Fantasia using Beatles music, especially from their psychedelic era, except that Yellow Submarine (which is also being apparently remade) already covered that area. (And I mean new animations, not using the existing visuals with Beatles music.)

But think of great animations to songs like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Penny Lane", "Within You, Without You", "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "A Day In The Life", "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Octopus' Garden", "Sexy Sadie", "Nowhere Man", "Glass Onion", "Hello Goodbye", "Across the Universe", "Helter Skelter", "I Am the Walrus", "All You Need Is Love", etc. The possibilities are unlimited.

True, but some possibilities are easier than others -- I think it is possible that 21st century artists and audiences are more in their comfort zone with modern popular music, and perhaps it is a good thing that more challenging material in the form of classical music has been the template for the last two Fantasia outings. I don't know if you saw Taymor's recent Across the Universe, but I couln't help but feel much of what I was seeing felt overly-safe and naggingly familiar. A Fantasia comprised of Beatles' films would have to be a balanced affair emotionally, but it would also have to be, I feel, extraordinarily bold, even fearless, in conceptualizing and visualizing the material, and I haven't really seen that from the company since the Brizzi Bros were around.