ABC's "Lost" Discussion (2004-2010) - Page 509 - Blu-ray Forum

Zvi · 12-08-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

hey Zvi, i have the answer ...
happy now?

see how much better that makes you feel? oh yeah, it doesn't, because that really doesn't matter with the story that was being told.

no need to roll eyes and get frustrated, just because I criticized your favorite show Ok? If peanut butter or any other answer, or even absence of such works for you, that's fine by me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoCortex

Jacob lived in the statue because he felt like living in the statue.

Excellent point! I'm glad things can work out that easy for you. I was expecting a little more elaborate answers/explanations form the writers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoCortex

What is vague about the Widmore leaving the island? It was stated pretty explicitly when he was being exiled that he was being kicked off because he routinely left the island and even fathered a child off-island.

And that is also EXACTLY what Ben did, isn't it? Left the island and fatherred outsider's child.

In other words, I do understand that for S6 fans lots of things either didn't matter at all, or they're happy with "it's just a way it is" type of answer. However, there are other people, myself included who think otherwise. However, when I state I have a problem with something not being answered, countering with "it was unimportant" or "it was just the way it was" doesn't change anything, for either side

iam1bearcat · 12-08-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

no need to roll eyes and get frustrated, just because I criticized your favorite show Ok? If peanut butter or any other answer, or even absence of such works for you, that's fine by me.

Excellent point! I'm glad things can work out that easy for you. I was expecting a little more elaborate answers/explanations form the writers.

In other words, I do understand that for S6 fans lots of things either didn't matter at all, or they're happy with "it's just a way it is" type of answer. However, there are other people, myself included who think otherwise. However, when I state I have a problem with something not being answered, countering with "it was unimportant" or "it was just the way it was" doesn't change anything, for either side

Zvi, would you enjoy the show more if you got answers? what would that change?
yes, you would know answers to some of your lingering questions, but it still doesn't effect the emotional connection to the characters or the jaw dropping moments the series is filled with. for me, answers wouldn't change anything.

the way it is now, it's open for discussion with fans and friends, which makes the show more exciting and fun than having it all wrapped up, leaving you with nothing to talk about imo

Zvi · 12-08-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

Zvi, would you enjoy the show more if you got answers? what would that change?
yes, you would know answers to some of your lingering questions, but it still doesn't effect the emotional connection to the characters or the jaw dropping moments the series is filled with. for me, answers wouldn't change anything.

Like I said, some of what happened in S6 did make prev. seasons look stupid, for me that is. For few seasons I thought Jacob was all important/all knowing being, turned out to be a dumba$$, mamma's boy who couldn't even make a simple rule not to get himself killed. Bunch of the jaw dropping moments are not to jaw dropping after S6 took a dump on all that.

In general, for some people it is frustrating to get invested in the show/plot/subplot only to find out it was nothing important. You guys are fine with that, others are not.
Considering how many different things are described by some fans as "it didn't matter", I wonder what made the show so interesting to them, if there was so little that mattered in Lost. I figure "they all lived happily ever after" can outweigh so many things...

X12Celtics3 · 12-08-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

an ending that everyone would understand?

Are you serious!? There are so many people out there that complain because "the ending dont make no sense".

You're not really giving me any good reasons. The season didnt know where it was going? What does that even mean. Season 6 felt rushed? LOL. I tell you what was rushed. Season 4, but you have no problem loving that. Season 4 was supposed to be 16 episode but was condensed into 14 because of the writers strike.

I can't really see how the ending didn't make sense. Even the least logical viewer could have seen that, at the very least, the main characters were all reunited in a dramatic conclusion that shows that all of their actions were for a good cause or whatever. Bad guy died, one of the show's iconic characters dies to save everyone else, another iconic character inherits important position, and an out-of-character, untrustworthy bad guy gets a second (or third, or fourth?) chance at redemption.

The season didn't know where it was going, as in things of seeming importance (the temple, Jacob) seemed to become completely irrelevant by the end. Yes, it felt rushed, the pacing was not nearly as good. Just because season four was shortened doesn't mean that it had the pacing issues that I personally felt the final season had.

I don't really see the need for your aggressive tone. You liked the final season, thats great, I'm happy for you. I didn't, and I have not said like so many others that it was crap, all I've said is that I personally didn't care for it at all.

volcomsocal · 12-08-2010, 10:22 PM

Hey guys, just popping my head in here. It's been a long time since I visited/posted in this thread. I'm in the middle of re-watching the whole show on blu-ray. I bought the Complete Collection on day 1 and I'm towards the end of S2.

LOSTnLOST · 12-09-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X12Celtics3

I

The season didn't know where it was going, as in things of seeming importance (the temple, Jacob) seemed to become completely irrelevant by the end.

Actually the temple and the sickness actually kept in the theme of the season and was important.

It was part of the light vs dark of the season and it was one of the final places that had yet been discovered by our characters.

Jacob wasnt important? Of course he was. Pffft

Zvi · 12-09-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

Actually the temple and the sickness actually kept in the theme of the season and was important.

I think you are not serious now

That's the same temple TS0323 described as "just another place".
After the temple was overrun by MIB, very early in S6, most of the temple inhabitants promptly changed their faith (for which they have killed quite a bit too) from Jacob to MIB, and I am sure some will find deep spiritual meaning in all that, but I didn't.
Anyway, we never saw temple or any meaning/importance of it after that.
As for the sickness, we never actually saw any symptoms of it on anyone, except Sayid being slightly catatonic for several episodes, which btw somehow helped him to be more efficient killer, but even that outbreak was easily cured by short dialog with Desmond. Oh yeah, Claire was also infected, but besides being crankier than usual and having her hair messed up we never saw any manifestation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

It was part of the light vs dark of the season and it was one of the final places that had yet been discovered by our characters.

For one, apparently the whole light vs. dark thingy was BS, since it was two cranky brothers raised by crazy mom fighting for their own reasons. Actually one of them, Jacob, wasn't even fighting for his reasons, just kept doing what his fake mom told him to do, except for the fact that he killed his brother even though mom told them mot to hurt each other.
Of course MIB wore black shirt and Jacob white, but beyond that... Jacob doesn't come out any better than MIB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

Jacob wasnt important? Of course he was. Pffft

Jacob wasn't important in that he didn't do anything important in the whole show except the killing his own brother, even that could be argued as an act under diminished capacity, since his brother just killed their fake bulldozer/commando mother.
As for the rest, he couldn't even explain his ideas or plans to the candidates and whatever he says was always extremely vague. Exception being the phrase in one of the last episodes when he said "there is very little time left"...

RSuarez · 12-09-2010, 03:05 PM

after keeping away from this thread for a while I decided to come back to see if anyone had discussed on something...

Zvi, question for you, have you seen the extra minutes of 'The new man in charge' included in season 6? Several answers are given there and I am curious as to what your impressions were if you've seen it...

Zvi · 12-09-2010, 03:36 PM

Actually no. Before S6, I did read and follow sites related to lost, official and not. After the show ended, or after S6, I lost interest in all of that.
And come to think of it, the fact that those things are on separate DVD is just another point proving S6 was rushed and not well thought out.

RSuarez · 12-09-2010, 05:03 PM

I understand. I am very interested in the opinion of someone who wanted answers on that added chapter.

As a person who liked the show overall, I thought from the moment it was announced, it was an unnecesary extension to the final episode. After watching it I can tell you they did well in not including it in the season finale IMO.

Several answers are given to some of the island mysteries (fertility issues, polar bears, the food drops, Walt, room 23, etc), but the way in which they are handled feels awkward, you can tell this was made with the intention of giving "answers" to those who wanted them... I personally did not enjoy it and doubt I will rewatch it.

Again, someone who wanted answers could have a very different opinion...

iam1bearcat · 12-09-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

Actually no. Before S6, I did read and follow sites related to lost, official and not. After the show ended, or after S6, I lost interest in all of that.
And come to think of it, the fact that those things are on separate DVD is just another point proving S6 was rushed and not well thought out.

no it wasn't. the creators even said that they had the material for "The New Man in Charge" weeks to months before the finale aired, but knew full well it wasn't going to be added because it didn't mix with the finale itself well so they were saving it for the dvd / blu-ray release.

when the creators decided in the middle of season 3 that the show was only going to be six seasons long, that gave them plenty of time to do what they wanted, and they did. just because you feel it was rushed doesn't mean it actually was, which it wasn't.

you have no facts that show it was rushed. i have given you two examples right here in this post that prove otherwise.

Zvi · 12-09-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

no it wasn't. the creators even said that they had the material for "The New Man in Charge" weeks to months before the finale aired, but knew full well it wasn't going to be added because it didn't mix with the finale itself well so they were saving it for the dvd / blu-ray release.
when the creators decided in the middle of season 3 that the show was only going to be six seasons long, that gave them plenty of time to do what they wanted, and they did.

Ok, whatever you want to call it. From my point of view, having 3+ years left for the show/thinking process, 2 writers couldn't come up with coherent way to incorporate those answers into the show. IMHO it's a pathetic. Considering that the answers in that "extra" are to some of the most important questions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

you have no facts that show it was rushed. i have given you two examples right here in this post that prove otherwise.

To the contrary. Again, the FACT(you brought it up) that those answers, good or bad, ended up outside of the show clearly indicates poor planing/thinking. The "finale" was just one episode, ok 2 hour long, but there were 3.5 seasons since they knew when the show would be finished, and still those answers(still some, not all) get left out. And you honestly believe, there was no time during those years where those answers could've been placed? Forget the lame "answers" like "light is good, but too much of the light can give you a boo boo".

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSuarez

Several answers are given to some of the island mysteries (fertility issues, polar bears, the food drops, Walt, room 23, etc), but the way in which they are handled feels awkward, you can tell this was made with the intention of giving "answers" to those who wanted them... I personally did not enjoy it and doubt I will rewatch it.

I don't wanna buy S6 just for the extras dvd and I can't find those extras on netflix...

iam1bearcat · 12-09-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

Ok, whatever you want to call it. From my point of view, having 3+ years left for the show/thinking process, 2 writers couldn't come up with coherent way to incorporate those answers into the show. IMHO it's a pathetic. Considering that the answers in that "extra" are to some of the most important questions...

To the contrary. Again, the FACT(you brought it up) that those answers, good or bad, ended up outside of the show clearly indicates poor planing/thinking. The "finale" was just one episode, ok 2 hour long, but there were 3.5 seasons since they knew when the show would be finished, and still those answers(still some, not all) get left out. And you honestly believe, there was no time during those years where those answers could've been placed? Forget the lame "answers" like "light is good, but too much of the light can give you a boo boo".

I don't wanna buy S6 just for the extras dvd and I can't find those extras on netflix...

the reason there is a lack of answers is because the writers never were gonna give away and show all the answers to the questions piling up. they couldn't give a $h*t less if people wanted answers. they were gonna tell the story they wanted to tell and that's exactly what they did. it has nothing to do with running out of time or coming up with foolish answers or cryptic, not exact answers. they simply weren't interested in giving answers because they had a story to tell and that's what mattered to them.

Zvi · 12-09-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

the reason there is a lack of answers is because the writers never were gonna give away and show all the answers to the questions piling up.

In 2 words - bad writing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

they couldn't give a $h*t less if people wanted answers. they were gonna tell the story they wanted to tell and that's exactly what they did. it has nothing to do with running out of time or coming up with foolish answers or cryptic, not exact answers. they simply weren't interested in giving answers because they had a story to tell and that's what mattered to them.

Now, considering that it was a TV show, not some story told on a friendly party, it's obvious, writers and producers were VERY interested in having and expanding fan base, at least initially. All those games, viral websites, teasers and spoilers were designed just for that. And then at the end, they just jerry rigged then ending, why bother, show was over...
Anyhow, as you yourself said, they wouldn't give $sh*t... So, why be surprised if the viewers are upset with that.

iam1bearcat · 12-09-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

In 2 words - bad writing...

Now, considering that it was a TV show, not some story told on a friendly party, it's obvious, writers and producers were VERY interested in having and expanding fan base, at least initially. All those games, viral websites, teasers and spoilers were designed just for that. And then at the end, they just jerry rigged then ending, why bother, show was over...
Anyhow, as you yourself said, they wouldn't give $sh*t... So, why be surprised if the viewers are upset with that.

i'm not. i'm upset when people think they deserve to know all the answers and want all the answers when that was never how the show presented itself to begin with, so what made anyone think that was gonna change? because it was the last season? that's ridiculous.

not saying you feel this exact way but it seems so.

and then instead of accepting what the creators wanted to do - and did - you say it's bad writing or a bad idea or the show was rushed, when simply, the people in charge did what the wanted and didn't care to "dumb it down" with "okay this is why this and this happened" and hand over answers to questions that are not needed to complete the story instead of finishing their epic story.

answers are not and were not needed.

Zvi · 12-09-2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

i'm upset when people think they deserve to know all the answers and want all the answers when that was never how the show presented itself to begin with, so what made anyone think that was gonna change?

In general, when a show or a movie has mystery(ies), audience mostly expects them to be resolved

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

because it was the last season? that's ridiculous.

Yes, because it was a last season, although I wouldn't mind resolving some of them earlier on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

and then instead of accepting what the creators wanted to do - and did - you say it's bad writing or a bad idea or the show was rushed, when simply, the people in charge did what the wanted and didn't care to "dumb it down" with "okay this is why this and this happened" and hand over answers to questions that are not needed to complete the story instead of finishing their epic story.

I accepted what they did, simply because there is no other choice

I just have my opinion(very negative).
Let me remind you, the show initially was presented as mystery based/driven, by writers, cast, producers. Was promoted as such in numerous articles, computer games, viral websites, etc. And writers promised to answer all major questions in S6.
Debating all the clues and mysteries was what kept the interest going all those years. Are you seriously telling me that "who is Kate gonna sleep with in this season" was what kept interest in the show?

As fr dumbing down the show with answers, come on, I don't think it can get dumber than the light/water mixture explanation we got, amnesiac "purgatory" citizens, and the few thousand years old protector of humanity/island with absolute superpowers(at least in his domain) who was dumb enough not to figure out ruleset that would prevent him form being killed by his nemesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

answers are not and were not needed.

Perfect, you feel that way and that's why you like S6. I don't and that's why S6 spoiled the whole thing for me.

iam1bearcat · 12-10-2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

And writers promised to answer all major questions in S6.

you have any links to this statement? this seems hard to believe they would say this.

Zvi · 12-10-2010, 02:34 AM

If you dig this thread for the posts before the S6 started you will find numerous links and references. It was obvious that "all" open questions would never be answered, but "major" stuff was promised.

BergerForLife · 12-10-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

Yeah, except I'm not very clear what was that faith, in what? Locke believed he was brought to the island for a purpose and that apparently turned out to be what? Being hang way off the island. And most of the time he was used by someone, one way or the other. So much for faith...The rest had no clue whatsoever to the last episode of S6.

The main faith was that everything was happening for a reason, and they were brought to the island for a reason. John Locke was right in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

I think you forgot Jack did try to kill Locke, Sawyer was quite far from sticking up with anyone, in S6 as well and so on. And in S6 sides were exchanged few times.

I said they "ended up" sticking by each other’s side. Yeah Jack tried to kill John but in the end he regretted not believing him in the first place. Sawyer went on the hike where they found the polar bear. Even though he acted mean he was always helping out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

And why that self( or whatever) induced amnesia when going to the place they wanna go so much to meet people etc... Is that what a normal person would to to himself, forget everything about someone you want to meet so much?

You keep using words like normal, and comparing "Lost" to a normal film or TV show. After 6 seasons of this show you should realize it's not normal. The comparisons are pointless. I would have despised if the show took a "normal" turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

Or we should assume when entering self made purgatory that is the side effect or assume it's mandatory, and then interesting question is why?

No it wasn't a side effect. Christian said “This is a place you all made together so you could find one another...Nobody does it all alone. You needed them and they needed you.” When Jack asks for what Christian says “To remember and to let go”. These characters decided to forget each other so they could experience meeting each other and going through events that symbolize their experiences during their lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvi

The earth is a planet, and was created about 4.5bln years ago, based on quite solid scientific proof. I didn't expect the same about the island, but I didn't expect 0 amount information about that either.

Was there a big bang? Did God create the earth? That’s my point. The things we don’t have concrete answers for in “Lost”, we don’t have concrete answers for in real life.

X12Celtics3 · 12-10-2010, 10:18 AM

I didn't like the final season at all, but I don't really understand the people who only want every mystery in the show to have an answer. I mean, did anybody really want any more scenes like the one where Michael explains the whispers? The sixth season was not to my liking, but it certainly had nothing to do with a lack of answers... I don't need any more awkward scenes like the whisper one or that awful epilogue thing.

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12-08-2010, 10:22 PM	#10165
volcomsocal Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2009 Location:Los Angeles, CA 4K collection:4 Blu-ray collection:98 Blu-ray reviews:9	Hey guys, just popping my head in here. It's been a long time since I visited/posted in this thread. I'm in the middle of re-watching the whole show on blu-ray. I bought the Complete Collection on day 1 and I'm towards the end of S2.

12-09-2010, 03:05 PM	#10168
RSuarez Power Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:MX / TX Home Theater Gallery:22 4K collection:6 Blu-ray collection:607	after keeping away from this thread for a while I decided to come back to see if anyone had discussed on something... Zvi, question for you, have you seen the extra minutes of 'The new man in charge' included in season 6? Several answers are given there and I am curious as to what your impressions were if you've seen it...

12-09-2010, 03:36 PM	#10169
Zvi Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jul 2006 Blu-ray collection:121	Actually no. Before S6, I did read and follow sites related to lost, official and not. After the show ended, or after S6, I lost interest in all of that. And come to think of it, the fact that those things are on separate DVD is just another point proving S6 was rushed and not well thought out.

12-09-2010, 05:03 PM	#10170
RSuarez Power Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:MX / TX Home Theater Gallery:22 4K collection:6 Blu-ray collection:607	I understand. I am very interested in the opinion of someone who wanted answers on that added chapter. As a person who liked the show overall, I thought from the moment it was announced, it was an unnecesary extension to the final episode. After watching it I can tell you they did well in not including it in the season finale IMO. Several answers are given to some of the island mysteries (fertility issues, polar bears, the food drops, Walt, room 23, etc), but the way in which they are handled feels awkward, you can tell this was made with the intention of giving "answers" to those who wanted them... I personally did not enjoy it and doubt I will rewatch it. Again, someone who wanted answers could have a very different opinion...

12-10-2010, 02:34 AM	#10178
Zvi Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jul 2006 Blu-ray collection:121	If you dig this thread for the posts before the S6 started you will find numerous links and references. It was obvious that "all" open questions would never be answered, but "major" stuff was promised.

12-10-2010, 10:18 AM	#10180
X12Celtics3 Senior Member Member since:Jan 2010 Blu-ray collection:427	I didn't like the final season at all, but I don't really understand the people who only want every mystery in the show to have an answer. I mean, did anybody really want any more scenes like the one where Michael explains the whispers? The sixth season was not to my liking, but it certainly had nothing to do with a lack of answers... I don't need any more awkward scenes like the whisper one or that awful epilogue thing.

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