ABC's "Lost" Discussion (2004-2010)

[Zvi]

I'll skip faith based arguments. We have very different views on that.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

You keep using words like normal, and comparing "Lost" to a normal film or TV show. After 6 seasons of this show you should realize it's not normal.

No, you keep applying "abnormal" to human behavior. Aside from Jacob/MIB and partly Walt, the rest were absolutely normal and ordinary human beings. They ate, fought, fell in love, etc... Isn't all that the same proverbial "character development" after all? Again, just because the show has Sci-fi or fantasy setup doesn't mean humans loose all humanity and gain completely new, illogical behavior.
They did build a raft when they wanted to leave the island right? That's too ordinary for you? You despise the show because of that? Instead they should've burned the forest first and then try to build a raft to make a little unusual/interesting? Locke did blew up submarine because he didn't want anyone to leave the island. Also normal logic for someone with that goal, although he was being a total a$$ to everyone else, based on his blind faith BTW.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

When Jack asks for what Christian says “To remember and to let go”. These characters decided to forget each other so they could experience meeting each other and going through events that symbolize their experiences during their lives.

And to find someone, obviously first thing you do is forget all about yourself and that someone. Of course, why make it easy, when you have to stretch all that in 20 episodes...
Then, in order to "let go" you have to forget whatever you want to "let go", one would think at that point mission is accomplished You forgot, ergo, you let it go, but no... Too easy. Now, you have to meet bunch of people who like you, also have no clue what's going on, and then once you remember them and whatever the hell U had to let go, then you magically let go...
If all that makes sense for you, fine.

Considering that they had lifetime to let go and apparently that didn't work out too well, why exactly they would let go in purgatory as they remembered? It (purgatory) also had anti-depressant or sedative effect? What if they couldn't remember, or died accidentally?
And Desmond going in and out of the purgatory after getting a jolt from Widmor's supermagnets does make the whole concept even weirder.

I am still very curious, do the kids conceived in the purgatory count as real ones or they are discarded on the exit to "happy ever after"? Specifically, Sun's case.

And BTW, since those "characters" created the purgatory universe, does that mean all the extras in purgatory simply cease to exist after those reunited in the church exit through the doors of light?

Or why those characters filled their own personal purgatory with millions of complete strangers...
Or it wasn't their personal? Or they made it for others as well and kindda left it as a present after moving to next level?

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Was there a big bang?

??? Is that a serious question?

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Did God create the earth?

No, earth and solar system were created approx. 4.5bln years ago as a result of gravitational collapse of a gas cloud.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

That’s my point. The things we don’t have concrete answers for in “Lost”, we don’t have concrete answers for in real life.

We do have real answers for those questions you posed, and yes there are lots of things we do not, although equating the mysterious economist Sayid was hunting, or what was special about Walt in the TV show to the global questions of existence and universe formation is a little overboard.
It was a TV show, it was supposed to provide good entertainment, preferably w/o leaving so many people feeling ripped off.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

you have any links to this statement? this seems hard to believe they would say this.

Main tag line - "The time for questions is over".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fg03pJ7zyY


"Everything you questioned, leads to one date"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygq3y...eature=related

Many of the trailers mentioned the mysteries and questions. I'm really confused why people seem to forget the fact that the show was very much about the mysteries - as much as the story of the people. At least, that what the show sold us all on - right up until the end.


I can say one thing - it certainly never lived up to this epic promo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Xiim6nt8c

Instead we got

[Show spoiler]Kate shoots him in the back and they all died happily ever after.

[NeoCortex]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Main tag line - "The time for questions is over".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fg03pJ7zyY


"Everything you questioned, leads to one date"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygq3y...eature=related

Many of the trailers mentioned the mysteries and questions. I'm really confused why people seem to forget the fact that the show was very much about the mysteries - as much as the story of the people. At least, that what the show sold us all on - right up until the end.


I can say one thing - it certainly never lived up to this epic promo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Xiim6nt8c

Instead we got

[Show spoiler]Kate shoots him in the back and they all died happily ever after.

The producers have stated in many podcasts over the years that they are not responsible for promos. Those are all ABC Marketing.

[thePhoenix]

Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions. Here's mine: Lost is by far the best show I've ever and possibly will ever experience. There's no use in arguing with the haters. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away. Who's down for another re-watch?

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by thePhoenix

Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions. Here's mine: Lost is by far the best show I've ever and possibly will ever experience. There's no use in arguing with the haters. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away. Who's down for another re-watch?

I couldn't have said it better. Preach on brotha.

[X12Celtics3]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Main tag line - "The time for questions is over".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fg03pJ7zyY


"Everything you questioned, leads to one date"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygq3y...eature=related

Many of the trailers mentioned the mysteries and questions. I'm really confused why people seem to forget the fact that the show was very much about the mysteries - as much as the story of the people. At least, that what the show sold us all on - right up until the end.


I can say one thing - it certainly never lived up to this epic promo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Xiim6nt8c

Instead we got

[Show spoiler]Kate shoots him in the back and they all died happily ever after.

Those have absolutely nothing to do with the writers of the show, as was already said. I highly doubt that the writers ever said that they would answer all of the questions.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by X12Celtics3

Those have absolutely nothing to do with the writers of the show, as was already said. I highly doubt that the writers ever said that they would answer all of the questions.

And you are correct The expectation was to have answers "important", or "big" questions, like what the island was, what's up with Jacob and rules and what the hell was gong on all this time.
Other than that, if you expected notary signed document from Lindelof promising all the answers, there is none, but I did find interesting part, straight form the horses(Lindelof's) mouth.

Further, one could say(as in - S6 fans would say) the writers fulfilled their promises (whether or not they gave those promises) and answered all the important questions, the rest simply was unimportant. See previous posts in this thread, anything unanswered was "unimportant". In that case even a single answer already satisfies criteria, important was answered, the rest was unimportant, etc, etc. That's how you see things.

From another point of view, writers didn't answer a lot of important questions, and bunch of the answers were very lame, half baked, worse than no answer at all, etc... It all looks like at the end, they either had no idea how to resolve the mess they created(or wrote themselves in), or simply lost (no pun intended) interest in their own work. Well, it might've been some combination of both.

The fact that 2 writers during 3.5 years couldn't figure out creative way to incorporate some of the "answers" that are in extras to me indicates bad writing, lack of planing, etc. The others(S6 fans, not Jacobs not so loyal followers) are just fine with the way things went.

Just a different perspective on the same things Ok? Doesn't make S6 critics cranky, sadistic, heretics, haters and/or whatever else...

For the kickers, I dug this one up - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-mar..._b_586484.html
What Lindelof and Cuse had to say about Lost ending back in S3. I suggest you read it
Although, the best part from Lindelof I can quote:
We can hand you an envelope right now and we could seal it in a safety deposit box and it would say in that envelope: Here's what the island is. Here's why these people came to this island. Here's roughly what the events of the last episode of the show will be.
...
but the actual answers to the mysteries, the nature of the island, what the monster is, the function of the monster, when the Others came here, why the black rock is in the middle of the island, the explanation for the four-toed statue, those things we know the answers to.

I'm just curious, do you think all of the above was answered, even if we count 3rd grader level answers like "there is light in everyone, and everyone wants more of it".


P.S. I don't understand the argument that "answers" would dumb down the show. I can't think of a case when an intelligent answer dumbed down anything. Now, a dumb answer can definitely spoil a lot of things Take "Across The Sea" episode for example.

[NeoCortex]

Originally Posted by Zvi

For the kickers, I dug this one up - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-mar..._b_586484.html
What Lindelof and Cuse had to say about Lost ending back in S3. I suggest you read it
Although, the best part from Lindelof I can quote:
We can hand you an envelope right now and we could seal it in a safety deposit box and it would say in that envelope: Here's what the island is. Here's why these people came to this island. Here's roughly what the events of the last episode of the show will be.
...
but the actual answers to the mysteries, the nature of the island, what the monster is, the function of the monster, when the Others came here, why the black rock is in the middle of the island, the explanation for the four-toed statue, those things we know the answers to.

I'm just curious, do you think all of the above was answered, even if we count 3rd grader level answers like "there is light in everyone, and everyone wants more of it".


P.S. I don't understand the argument that "answers" would dumb down the show. I can't think of a case when an intelligent answer dumbed down anything. Now, a dumb answer can definitely spoil a lot of things Take "Across The Sea" episode for example.

Yes, I think those mysteries were all answered. You may not be happy or content with the answers that they gave, but they're there none the less. There's really no way to please everybody.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by NeoCortex

Yes, I think those mysteries were all answered.

I understand " there's no way to please everybody" but, as far as your "those mysteries were all answered" I disagree.
I doubt you read Lindelof's list though, for instance "when the Others came here" or "the explanation for the four-toed statue"... Remember, Lindelof himself said there would be answer/explanation. The usual "it wasn't important" doesn't apply to this particular argument, you say it was answered, right? Where? Again, it's not about me being happy/unhappy with an answer, there was none.

[BergerForLife]

Hey Zvi you are not following what I'm trying to tell you on my other posts. My main point is that we are allowed to figure out certain things for our own in the show just like we are in real life. Please take the time to understand that. I don't care for you to believe that there is a God and he created Earth, but I want you to realize that each person has the choice to decide that. That was a huge theme of "Lost".

Originally Posted by Zvi

The mysteries, the nature of the island, what the monster is, the function of the monster, when the Others came here, why the black rock is in the middle of the island, the explanation for the four-toed statue, those things we know the answers to.[/i][/b]

Keep in mind that all DL was saying was that THEY KNOW the answers, not that they would give the audience concrete answers. Everything Carlton Cuse said prior to Lindleoff statement was exactly where the show went.

Nature of the island: Jacob says - "Think of this wine as what you keep calling hell. There's many other names for it too: malevolence, evil, darkness. And here it is, swirling around in the bottle, unable to get out because if it did, it would spread. The cork [he corks the bottle] is this island and it's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs."
John Locke - "It's a place where miracles happen."

What the monster is: Dogen - "Evil incarnate"

When the others came to the island - We learned a lot about how long each other had been there for. Each one is different.

Why the black rock is in the middle of the island - Season 1 quote by Doctor Arzt - Hold on, wait, hold on. Hold, wait. What are we a couple miles inland? [to Danielle] A tsunami probably swept it here, huh, right?

Explanation of the four toed statue - We got an idea of how old it was, that Jacob lived in it, what was inside of it, and how it broke. I don't need them to explain to me that the others built the statue.

So there we go, everything there in DL statement was answered. Cool.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Hey Zvi you are not following what I'm trying to tell you on my other posts. My main point is that we are allowed to figure out certain things for our own in the show just like we are in real life.

Ok, let's try again. Allowed by whom? According to CS, they created purgatory themselves, just to meet with folk that were important in their lives and let go. It still makes no sense why that place was populated with millions of strangers, or how they conjured them up, but whatever... "Allowed" implies 3rd person or some sort of deity then?

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Keep in mind that all DL was saying was that THEY KNOW the answers, not that they would give the audience concrete answers.

I don't get it, was the interview so obscure or you didn't read it as I did? Again, including last sentence this time: those things we know the answers to. How we're going to reveal those answers becomes the slippery slope of the show.

Dunno about you, but to me that's a pretty clear promise to explain things listed.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Nature of the island: Jacob says - "Think of this wine as what you keep calling hell. There's many other names for it too: malevolence, evil, darkness. And here it is, swirling around in the bottle, unable to get out because if it did, it would spread.

The cork theory doesn't hold any water. From what we saw, mainly the place served as a prison for MIB, which was created by Jacob himself. How does the light/water mixture fits in the cork theory was left unexplained though. At any rate, the amount of maleviolence, evil and darkness in the word clearly indicated the cork doesn't work. Of course, you can always say, imagine how bad it'd be if the cork wasn't there, but I don't buy that

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

John Locke - "It's a place where miracles happen."

John Locke playing captain obvious That added 0, information-wise to what we knew for 6 years. And from Locke, who has been a puppet all the time... Well, ok, not all the time, some of the time he improvised and that's when things went real bad, he got Boone killed, he blew up the hatch, he blew up the sub, basically he never had a clue what was the island except his faith that it was a miraculous place.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

What the monster is: Dogen - "Evil incarnate"

Most likely Dogen had no clue who/what the monster was. He just repeated what Jacob told him, i.e. another puppet. And from what we actually saw, monster was just a pissed off guy, who had his mother killed by a crazy woman and was held on the island against his will for eons. Hardly a qualification for the evil incarnate. Matter of fact, I felt really sorry for the MIB in "across the sea".
The fact that he had to whack all the candidates wasn't his fault BTW, Jacob in his utter dumbness made up the rules which didn't prevent his own stupid a$$ getting killed, nor MIB escape, and instead endangered a lot more people, by forcing MIB to kill his new prison guard.
To simplify, instead of making the rule "you can't leave the island ever, no matter what and can't kill me either" he came up with unclear set of rules, ( I figure those rules were not "important" even though apparently whole show played out by those rules) and sacrificed few hundred more lives.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

When the others came to the island - We learned a lot about how long each other had been there for. Each one is different.

? We have no idea when. Nor how long... With very few exceptions, like Juliet.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Why the black rock is in the middle of the island - Season 1 quote by Doctor Arzt - Hold on, wait, hold on. Hold, wait. What are we a couple miles inland?

Very strange you bring up Doc. Arzt for the black rock explanation, because in S6 MIB told RA exactly what happened, wave took the ship and knocked down the statue. Very underwhelming explanation of course, but an explanation never the less.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Explanation of the four toed statue - We got an idea of how old it was, that Jacob lived in it, what was inside of it, and how it broke. I don't need them to explain to me that the others built the statue.

a) You have no information how old the statue was, except that it was "old", and we knew it was old from S2.
b) You have no information that would indicate that the "others" built it. For all we know, it could've been those guys that bulldozer/commando mom slaughtered, or the old romans, or the ancient Greeks, or by the ascended ancients from SG universe. All those are just as valid as your assumption that the others built it.
c) You have no explanation why it had 4 toes. Whether it was actually built after some 4 toed being or the guys were just running behind on their schedule and decided to skip the 5th toe to meet the deadline is absolutely unclear. Your guess is as good as mine.

Summary - all you know about the status is that is had 4 toes, was old and got knocked down by black rock during the storm. You have no information from the show that would indicate its age, origin, builder, etc, which is what would constitute an answer/explanation.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

So there we go, everything there in DL statement was answered. Cool.

I beg to differ. Statue was old is not an answer, since we already knew it was old... Others built it is just your assumption based on I dunno what, and so on.

[Rizor]

The statue has 4 toes because it is a statue of a 4-toed Egyptian goddess. Ancient Egyptians inhabited the island at some point probably before Jacob's time (hence all the heiroglyphs). Presumably, they had all these crazy beliefs about good and evil, built labyrinthine passageways and temples. Then who knows what happened. It was never expanded upon by the writers.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by thePhoenix

Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions. Here's mine: Lost is by far the best show I've ever and possibly will ever experience. There's no use in arguing with the haters. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away. Who's down for another re-watch?

Truer words have never been spoken.

[BergerForLife]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Ok, let's try again. Allowed by whom?...."Allowed" implies 3rd person or some sort of deity then?

Well go ahead and replace "allowed" with "able" because I didn't mean what you thought I did.

Originally Posted by Zvi

The cork theory doesn't hold any water. From what we saw, mainly the place served as a prison for MIB, which was created by Jacob himself. How does the light/water mixture fits in the cork theory was left unexplained though. At any rate, the amount of maleviolence, evil and darkness in the word clearly indicated the cork doesn't work. Of course, you can always say, imagine how bad it'd be if the cork wasn't there, but I don't buy that

Now you're just talking about the show, but the point is that the answer was there.

Originally Posted by Zvi

John Locke playing captain obvious That added 0, information-wise to what we knew for 6 years.

John Locke said that way back in the fourth season. Lol again you are talking about the show, and avoiding the fact the answers are there.

Originally Posted by Zvi

? We have no idea when. Nor how long... With very few exceptions, like Juliet.

You're right they should have had all the others hold up flashcards showing how long they had been on the island. All jokes aside, we can figure out on our own how long each other had been there with the information given to us.

Originally Posted by Zvi

Very strange you bring up Doc. Arzt for the black rock explanation, because in S6 MIB told RA exactly what happened, wave took the ship and knocked down the statue. Very underwhelming explanation of course, but an explanation never the less.

My point was an answer that you said wasn't there was there all the way back in season 1.

Originally Posted by Zvi

? a) You have no information how old the statue was, except that it was "old", and we knew it was old from S2.
b) You have no information that would indicate that the "others" built it. For all we know, it could've been those guys that bulldozer/commando mom slaughtered, or the old romans, or the ancient Greeks, or by the ascended ancients from SG universe. All those are just as valid as your assumption that the others built it.
c) You have no explanation why it had 4 toes. Whether it was actually built after some 4 toed being or the guys were just running behind on their schedule and decided to skip the 5th toe to meet the deadline is absolutely unclear. Your guess is as good as mine..

a) We know its from ancient times. Sorry I felt that was pretty obvious. I haven't seen an egyptian statue in my city recently.
b) As I said there were no other people on the island that could have built it. They were others from ancient times. Most likely from Egypt. It's called process of elimination. I highly doubt it was white african space christs from the future.
c) It was a statue of Tawaret. So it had 4 toes. The. End.

You're making me be repetitive. Let me state plainly.
1) The answers that DL and CC promised were in the show. Maybe not in your face and concrete but they were there.
2) Any other mysteries are as open to interpretation as they are in real life.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

John Locke said that way back in the fourth season. Lol again you are talking about the show, and avoiding the fact the answers are there.

What answer? The fact that the miracles happen on the island were shown few times and I didn't need Locke or someone else stating that, what answer is it anyway, stating the obvious?

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

You're right they should have had all the others hold up flashcards showing how long they had been on the island.

No, just you said we had we had that info, I disagreed that we didn't. You still produced no info, except the claims that it's there.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

All jokes aside, we can figure out on our own how long each other had been there with the information given to us.

For very few people yes, but for the rest you have a range between 0 and their age by appearance in the show. It doesn't matter really, but you claim something that's not there.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

My point was an answer that you said wasn't there was there all the way back in season 1.

Technically and practically, that was a "speculation", not an answer, and as you quoted it was more of a question.
Anyway, if you knew that from S1, terrific, because most of the people had no clue what happened to black rock, till "Ab Aeterno" was aired.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

a) We know its from ancient times. Sorry I felt that was pretty obvious. I haven't seen an egyptian statue in my city recently.

Doh... Thanks for stating the obvious Now, if you count "it was ancient" as "we know when", then what can I say, your requirements are very lax, which explains the rest.
For the record the term ancient spans few thousand years, and matter of fact, you also have no info form the that would imply the state was not built just a few hundred years ago. I take, archeologists waste a lot of time for nothing researching/studying, why bother, we know it's old...

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

b) As I said there were no other people on the island that could have built it. They were others from ancient times.

And you are so categorical based on what? No other people? As far as I could tell, there were other people (other than "others") quite often... Starting with Jacob's childhood, and very likely before his time as well.

So, as far as your elimination goes, you just eliminate whatever doesnt' fit your theory...

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

c) It was a statue of Tawaret. So it had 4 toes. The. End.

Hold on, you said above, Lost shouldn't be compared to normal TV, film or life. And now, you're taking real life ancient god, and taking that as an answer... Even so, we still know nothing why, when, whom..
Oh I forgot, somewhere between 10,000 and 1000 BC, by Egyptians (most likely).

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

You're making me be repetitive. Let me state plainly.
1) The answers that DL and CC promised were in the show. Maybe not in your face and concrete but they were there.

Well, ok if you're satisfied having dates with +- 10,000 years precision, than I have no argument, you have your answers, of the same caliber. You had them from S1, matter of fact. The island was a place where the miracles happened, that was clear form the pilot, the statue was old, clear from S2, others were others, since S1 and so on. I figure, main mystery was who would Kate sleep with in each season, the rest we already knew!

What you consider answers are more of a questions or mysteries to other viewers, but to each his own

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by thePhoenix

Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions. Here's mine: Lost is by far the best show I've ever and possibly will ever experience. There's no use in arguing with the haters. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away. Who's down for another re-watch?

Haha, so, "Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions.", but the ones who disagree with you should go away?

Anyway, whether people loved the show or not - for the most part, people still in this thread are having a calm debate - not sure why that upsets some people.

Keeping with the "calm debate" idea - one of my big issues with Lost was that John Locke seemed to be chosen by Jacob in some way. He certainly had the greatest connection to the island (although, why Jacob would reveal himself to Hurley, and not John is a bit confusing.)

Ok - so, to my question - John seemed to feel that the island had a purpose for him - he went to great lengths to determine this purpose. For the most part, he fails at everything. Then, he is tricked into thinking he needs to get everyone back to the island and may even need to die. But, he fails in getting anyone back, and goes to kill himself (not much of a hero) - then, gets killed.

In the end, John's personal journey was pretty lackluster. For all his connections to the island and his faith - he failed miserably. So, did John ever truly have a purpose on the show? Sure, he was a wonderful character - but I have a hard time figuring out what the writer's meant me to take away from John's journey.

(Don't even get me started on Richard's story - which was completely useless to anything in the overall story - even though an entire episode was devoted to his backstory).

So, any ideas/theories?

[LOSTnLOST]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Haha, so, "Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions.", but the ones who disagree with you should go away?

Anyway, whether people loved the show or not - for the most part, people still in this thread are having a calm debate - not sure why that upsets some people.

Keeping with the "calm debate" idea - one of my big issues with Lost was that John Locke seemed to be chosen by Jacob in some way. He certainly had the greatest connection to the island (although, why Jacob would reveal himself to Hurley, and not John is a bit confusing.)

Ok - so, to my question - John seemed to feel that the island had a purpose for him - he went to great lengths to determine this purpose. For the most part, he fails at everything. Then, he is tricked into thinking he needs to get everyone back to the island and may even need to die. But, he fails in getting anyone back, and goes to kill himself (not much of a hero) - then, gets killed.

In the end, John's personal journey was pretty lackluster. For all his connections to the island and his faith - he failed miserably. So, did John ever truly have a purpose on the show? Sure, he was a wonderful character - but I have a hard time figuring out what the writer's meant me to take away from John's journey.

(Don't even get me started on Richard's story - which was completely useless to anything in the overall story - even though an entire episode was devoted to his backstory).

So, any ideas/theories?

Locke is truly tragic.

The most important Locke did though, was make Jack a believer.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Haha, so, "Everyone has the right to their own crappy opinions.", but the ones who disagree with you should go away?

Anyway, whether people loved the show or not - for the most part, people still in this thread are having a calm debate - not sure why that upsets some people.

Keeping with the "calm debate" idea - one of my big issues with Lost was that John Locke seemed to be chosen by Jacob in some way. He certainly had the greatest connection to the island (although, why Jacob would reveal himself to Hurley, and not John is a bit confusing.)

Ok - so, to my question - John seemed to feel that the island had a purpose for him - he went to great lengths to determine this purpose. For the most part, he fails at everything. Then, he is tricked into thinking he needs to get everyone back to the island and may even need to die. But, he fails in getting anyone back, and goes to kill himself (not much of a hero) - then, gets killed.

In the end, John's personal journey was pretty lackluster. For all his connections to the island and his faith - he failed miserably. So, did John ever truly have a purpose on the show? Sure, he was a wonderful character - but I have a hard time figuring out what the writer's meant me to take away from John's journey.

(Don't even get me started on Richard's story - which was completely useless to anything in the overall story - even though an entire episode was devoted to his backstory).

So, any ideas/theories?

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

Locke is truly tragic.

The most important Locke did though, was make Jack a believer.

See, I had thought that too - but many things accomplished that - John was certainly the anchor for "faith" in the early episodes - but ultimately, it was his death that really affected Jack; however, his death was Smokey's idea and John actually had nothing to do with his own death (he wasn't able to go through with his own suicide).

So again, John personally, didn't do anything really - except, be tragic. I was sad that his character end up doing nothing except being a tragic sidenote, since he was my favorite.

[NeoCortex]

I think John was used as a pawn by MiB. John had faith in the island and that faith was manipulated, as well as taking advantage of his time travel, to serve MiB's needs. He was easily the most tragic character in the show. John may have been chosen as a candidate of Jacob's, and also useful to temper Jack's empirical views on the island, but he ended up being more useful to MiB in the long run.

John's "faith" is what made him so useful to the "wrong" side.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by NeoCortex

I think John was used as a pawn by MiB. John had faith in the island and that faith was manipulated, as well as taking advantage of his time travel, to serve MiB's needs. He was easily the most tragic character in the show. John may have been chosen as a candidate of Jacob's, and also useful to temper Jack's empirical views on the island, but he ended up being more useful to MiB in the long run.

John's "faith" is what made him so useful to the "wrong" side.

Yeah - that is the way I saw it too - which was strange since the story seemed to be leading towards greatness for John (it was his story as much as Jack's) - but ultimately he failed in everything he did and ended being useful to no one except Smokey. In the end, I was trying to figure out what the writer's wanted me to take away from John's story.