Blu-Ray Disc Read Speed Bad?

[WeApOn]

There was an article I read about Todd Howard saying negative things about the read speed on Blu-Ray. Then there was an article that said Blu-Ray can max out at 9MB/sec and 360 can max out at 16MB/sec. Then someone said:

"The DVD reading is Not Constant...Making it Troublsome for Games Designed to Stream like GTA...it Goes Down to 8Mb/Sec and Upto 16Mb/sec in the Outward Layers of the DVD..so the Average is Actually a Non-Constant 12Mb/sec

So the reading Speed of the 360 is a Non-Constant 12Mb/sec unlike the Biased Link you(original poster) Gave which Sayz its 16Mb/sec

The PS3 alwayz has the Advantage of the HDD as standard...with a transfare rate of 34Mb/sec...Which is Extremely High,A talented Developer Like Square-Enix and Factor 5[Lair] can Acheive Incredible Streaming By Clever Usage of the Hdd and Blu-ray Combined.."

I have Resistance and NBA 07 and they both installed a large amount of stuff on my HD. About 3 gigs total I think. If every game has to do that, the HD is going to get full VERY fast.

So-- What is the true story? And is the speed really something that we should have to worry about?

[Banjo]

I did read something about this the other day. However, this is nothing to worry about when it come to playing movies. You see, the Blu-Ray speed is perfectly constant for playing movies but when it come to loading games, it may turn out to be an issue. :-/

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

I have Resistance and NBA 07 and they both installed a large amount of stuff on my HD. About 3 gigs total I think. If every game has to do that, the HD is going to get full VERY fast.

Keep in mind the HDD is used as a cache. If space gets tight a least recently used rule would be applied and space freed for the current game. Unless you're jumping wildly around LOTS of games, you wouldn't see an issue.

For downloads, I think Sony needs to think about outboard USB mass storage expansion. Keep the internal drive for key applications, and offload data/cache to the external drive as appropriate.

You can already plug in USB HDD full of music and video and use that.

I expect they'll be doing this anyway for any IPTV/PVR stuff.

Gary

[Amon37]

Maybe it's specifically Ridge Race 7 but I started playing that before I went through the options and even realized there was an option to put stuff on the HDD. The loads were not bad with the disc only. The were lessened with the HDD download but that could be said for any game.

[WeApOn]

I don't personally care about load times really. But one thing that does bother me is when I'm playing the game and there's a quick lag-- would that be due to drive speed? It makes sense, because it would happen when something physically changes, which would mean you need to load the model or whatever it is that changed. Will that be a problem?

[Casey]

I heard for Oblivion they are putting duplicate data on different parts of the disc (since theres so much room on a bluray) so that the read time will be faster, no matter where on the disc it's currently reading. kind of a kludge way to do it, but should work

[jorg]

that would make good use of 50 gigs

[Maximus]

The structure of the disc is so that there is not uniformity in the data distribution so that a constant data rate can be kept, i.e. bits are packed in tight towards the centre of the disc where it spins slower, at the outer edge the bits are much sparser.

DVD has uniform density which is why the data rates are so variable.

[jason]

I have noticed a lot lately in RR7 when racing around corners I get a lag issue or a glitch, would this is a read speed problem or the cacheing on the hdd?

amon37 is the option you are talking about the install button in the options tab? if so how much better is the game play?

[WeApOn]

So, I assume this is a pretty bad thing for PS3 then? Does anyone have information that might make me feel better about this? I don't like hearing bad things about PS3.

[Nismobeach]

Originally Posted by jason

I have noticed a lot lately in RR7 when racing around corners I get a lag issue or a glitch, would this is a read speed problem or the cacheing on the hdd?

You're joking right?

[jason]

well yes and no because its better to get other opinions... Im saying its the rom being that I can hear the laser moving to read the right part of the disc.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

So, I assume this is a pretty bad thing for PS3 then? Does anyone have information that might make me feel better about this? I don't like hearing bad things about PS3.

no. this is by no means bad that is the misconception. an all the better point is the playstation 3's blu-ray optical drive is actualy better than the xbox360's standard drive see the diffrence is one is a CAV optical drive an one is a CLV optical drive. the CLV is rated at a constant read speed throughout the entire disc. where as the Standard DVD drive say in the xbox360 is a CAV laser. where as it only can atain the fast speed only on the outer most part of the disc. an that is IF the disc is full of data. the LESS data a CAV laser optical disc has the slower the read speed is. see the diffrence. the blu-ray drive in the playstation 3 is a CLV laser. if you want to know more about how PC it parts work this is prob. IN my Opinion the best i have been useing mueller's book for a long time. as a PC repair tech. for over 10 years i swear by it
http://www.quepublishing.com/booksto...sbn=0789734044

[WeApOn]

Nice. Thanks for the information. I'm into PC's alot myself, so I understand you clearly. So what would be safe to say is the average speed of the 360 drive? And if I understand you that means the PS3 is locked at 9mbs.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

Nice. Thanks for the information. I'm into PC's alot myself, so I understand you clearly. So what would be safe to say is the average speed of the 360 drive? And if I understand you that means the PS3 is locked at 9mbs.

yup . 9 compared to read the following.

well glad you asked...the min drive speed for the xbox360 is...you an others are going to love this...

actual DVD SPEED MIN: 5.0x
min transfer RATE : 6,923,077 Bytes /per sec

average DVD SPEED : 8.5 x
average transfer RATE: 11,769,231 Bytes/sec

simple quote from the book chapter 11.

columns 4-8 indicate the actual min "x"speed for CAV drives,along with the min. transfer speed(when reading the start of any disc) and an Optimistic average speed(true only when reading a "FULL DISC";OTHERWISE,ITS EVEN LOWER)IN BOTH "X" an Byte-per-second formats

who is scott mueller

Scott Mueller

Scott Mueller has sold more than two million copies of his best-seller Upgrading and Repairing PCs since it became an instant classic in 1988. Scott's industry-defining hardware book has been translated into 11 languages and has received accolades from PC technicians, enthusiasts and students worldwide. Scott is president of Mueller Technical Research, an international research and corporate training firm. Since 1982, MTR has specialized in the industry's longest running, most in-depth, accurate and effective corporate PC hardware and technical training seminars, maintaining a client list that includes Fortune 500 companies, the U.S. and foreign governments, major software and hardware corporations, as well as PC enthusiasts and entrepreneurs. His seminars have been presented to thousands of PC support professionals throughout the world. Scott has developed and presented training courses in all areas of PC hardware and software. He is an expert in PC hardware, operating systems, and data-recovery techniques. For more information about a custom PC hardware or data recovery training seminar for your organization, contact Lynn at

Mueller Technical Research
21 Spring Lane
Barrington Hills, IL 60010-9009
(847) 854-6794
(847) 854-6795 Fax
Email: scottmueller@compuserve.com
Web: www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com

the next time people spew something about the blu-ray drive in the playstation 3 is slower than the xbox360's drive . they may want to read up on a few thing's . because i think Scott the hardware industry tech. such as my self. may know a little something about how they work.

[WeApOn]

Nice. So ultimately, the 360 drive CAN achieve higher speeds than the PS3 drive can, but they are NOT constant and only occur on data which is placed on the ends of the disc. Further, the PS3 is at a CONSTANT 9mbs. The average speed the 360 drive is at is 8.5mbs, making the PS3 have the higher average.. and really the drive speed and load times will not be anything different than what we have seen in previous generations.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

Nice. So ultimately, the 360 drive CAN achieve higher speeds than the PS3 drive can, but they are NOT constant and only occur on data which is placed on the ends of the disc. Further, the PS3 is at a CONSTANT 9mbs. The average speed the 360 drive is at is 8.5mbs, making the PS3 have the higher average.. and really the drive speed and load times will not be anything different than what we have seen in previous generations.

correct ..an you would notice that's 8.5 mbs IF
THE DISC IS TOTALY FULL you hear alot of people "well with the xbox360" DVD drive is fine blu-ray is not needed. games only take up less than 4 GB...notice the less data on the disc the slower it will be in transfer of data. thats why the more data they can cram on the disc is good but also they can only cram so much with compression. even the fact is most of the xbox360 developers are useing

Today, most games include thousands of times as much data in terms of memory as algorithmic mechanics. For example, all of the buildings in the large game world of Grand Theft Auto were individually designed and placed by artists. In a typical modern video game, game content such as textures and character and environment models are created by artists beforehand, then rendered in the game engine. As the technical capabilities of computers and video game consoles increases, the amount of work required by artists also increases. First, high-end gaming PCs and next-generation game consoles like the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are capable of rendering scenes containing many very detailed objects with high-resolution textures in high-definition. This means that artists must invest a great deal more time in creating a single character, vehicle, building, or texture, since gamers will tend to expect ever-increasingly detailed environments.

procedural synthesis

Second, the number of unique objects displayed in a video game is increasing. In addition to highly detailed models, players expect a variety of models that appear substantially different from one another. In older games, a single character or object model might have been used over and over again throughout a game. With the increased visual fidelity of modern games, however, it is very jarring (and threatens the suspension of disbelief) to see many copies of a single object, while the real world contains far more variety. Again, artists would be required to complete orders of magnitude more work in order to create many different varieties of a particular object. The need to hire larger art staffs is one of the reasons for the rapid increase in game development costs.

granted it has its uses but the enviroments end up looking the same. by incorperating blu-ray . you can make the enviroment diffrent an varied than you could with standard DVD at higher resolutionswith more textures an more varied meshes. not to say procedural synthesis does not have its uses. but haveing blu-ray in the playstation 3 . most developers find the fact of so much space to work with realy a great thing to have. even the developers who have commented on the blu-ray game's like INSOMNIAC's TED price . like the fact the NPC audio does not have to be the same response. an more AI routines can be coded, with overall better audio an enviroment changes in game levels for example there are levels in RESISTANCE FALL OF MAN THAT ARE 400 MB alone this is the average space of each level an thats with compression. in FACTOR' 5's LAIR levels are already 4GBTHAT SHOULD TELL PEOPLE SOMETHING also MS being the FUD machine that it is..here is a new flight simulator for the windows VISTA platform

Title: Flight Simulator X
Genre: Simulation

Platform: PC
Release Date: Now Available

ESRB Rating: Everyone
Overview
Official Site:Flight Simulator X
Buy It Now!
From award winning game developer ACES comes Flight Simulator X. The latest installment will include the usual genre leading realism that continues to awe real pilots and will serve as the graphical benchmark for games on Windows Vista. Additionally, Flight Simulator X will deliver for the first time structured game play with more than 55 missions to choose from which will test the skills of players of all levels.
ESRB Rating
Screenshots


System Requirements

* Microsoft® Windows® XP SP2 / Vista
* PC with 1 GHz equivalent or higher processor
* 256 MB of system RAM for Windows XP SP2 / 512 MB Vista
* 14 GB available hard disk space
* DVD-ROM drive
* 32 MB DirectX 9 compatible video card required
* Sound card, speakers or headphones required for audio
* Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
* 56.6 Kbps or better modem for online play


Windows Vista Minimum Supported System Requirements
Processor
800 MHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1
System Memory
512 MB
GPU
SVGA (800x600)
Graphics Memory
-
HDD
20 GB
HDD Free Space
15 GB
Optical Drive
CD-ROM drive2
Audio
-
Internet
-
1 Processor speed is specified as the nominal operational processor frequency for the device. Some processors have power management which allows the processor to run at a lower rate to save power.
2 The CD-ROM may be external (not integral, not built into the system).

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...uirements.mspx

NO microsoft blu-ray is needed...just look at your system requirements for your own OS an flight sim game together near 30 GB..JUST TWO PROGRAMS.....

[joeorc]

Q: Do you think that with this generation of games, Sony is going to have anything that looks better than the Xbox 360’s Halo 3 for the PlayStation 3?
A: No. They were going to have the Cell be the video processor. But they didn’t know what they were doing. They said the Cell is the video processor. But they turned to Nvidia at the last minute, but Nvidia can’t do embedded DRAM. Go look at the bandwidth problems. Go ask the guys running … now. They took their year and burned it by not having a decent CPU strategy and then turning to Nvidia at the last minute. It’s a very unusual thing. Those processors are isolated from each other. You are seeing great game developers. Things will get better on us and on them. We think they’re get better on us. That is so close. We claim we’re better. It doesn’t matter. It’s just like pointing at the Xbox 1. We were 20 percent better. But it didn’t matter. We were a year late, didn’t have the best games. We had this bigger box. We did have online. We didn’t switch positions on that.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/200...terview_w.html

the bolded parts are laughable at best...shure mister FUD
billyFud