Grain... How to deal with Grain... - Page 8 - Blu-ray Forum

Mr. Joshua · 11-01-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Town Oil

all the more reason to get the digital video essentials disc. im sure some peoples settings are so out of whack its not even funny.

I totally agree. I need to pick this up....

Beta-guy · 11-01-2007, 08:28 PM

why would I turn down my sharpness, the whole point of Hi-def is sharp image quality... the grain is annoying, but I believe as HD get addopted more and more, the studio's will focus on technologies to reduce grain, in 3 year time I doubt we'll see grain again on HDM

T-Town Oil · 11-01-2007, 08:28 PM

another good thing to do (which you may already know) if you dont have a disc is to google your type of television along with settings or calibration and you can usually get a really good idea of what they should be at from someone who has probably had theirs calibrated.

T-Town Oil · 11-01-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta-guy

why would I turn down my sharpness, the whole point of Hi-def is sharp image quality... the grain is annoying, but I believe as HD get addopted more and more, the studio's will focus on technologies to reduce grain, in 3 year time I doubt we'll see grain again on HDM

here you go dude....
http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/optimizer/monitorPerf.html

CptGreedle · 11-01-2007, 08:35 PM

Actually the PS3 is a grain filter now that can reduce the amount of grain...
as for the TV, i still recommend it be calibrated by a professional and left untouched after that. If you adjust that incorrectly, it could make other things (SD content) look very soft or patterns to disappear.

secret · 11-01-2007, 08:41 PM

Grain gives me positive feelings though, since I grew up associating grain with mostly high quality movies in contrast to television sitcoms or tv specials.

Grain is to high quality special effects and entertainment value as the ringing bell is to food, according to Pavlov's experiment.

Most televisions are not created equally, so setting the sharpness to zero on some monitors might not give the same results as setting the sharpness to zero on another monitor. On one of my televisions, the sharpness looks balanced near the middle. On another television, the sweet spot is actually at zero. Similarly, on the first television, the contrast looks right at zero because the display is just naturally superbright. On the other television, the contrast looks okay at about 25%. And I'm using the THX Optimzer to calibrate both tv's.

(and the THX Optimizer is doing a really good job. Even regular television programs give me a movie like feel. But that could all just be psychological. My screens might actually be way different from what it should be.)

Whytewash · 11-01-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Town Oil

all the more reason to get the digital video essentials disc. im sure some peoples settings are so out of whack its not even funny.

Where do you go to pick this up? It sounds like something that could be very useful to many...

Quote:

Originally Posted by secret

Grain is to high quality special effects and entertainment value as the ringing bell is to food, according to Pavlov's experiment.

Not quite the analogy I would use but it works!

Deciazulado · 11-01-2007, 08:51 PM

I would try setting Iris in high, Picture brighter (make 100% white reach the maximum level without losing their lightest tones), gamma off, have detail enhancer off, turn sharpness down to minimum and then turn it up slowly (if needed) till the images comes into focus and stop there, without oversharpening it. Then after that, you can play with the detail enhancer, and gamma to suit your viewing tastes. Changing some of these settings might interact with the way the image looks so always write down where you came from and where did you go and tweak slowly

Frode · 11-01-2007, 09:02 PM

If you don't have a calibration disc, TURN OFF SHARPNESS. Especially if you're using HDMI. Having a high sharpness setting will just emphasize grain without adding detail, and also hurt general image quality, especially around edges. Get the set properly calibrated if you can, as that will not only set sharpness correct (some actually apply a reverse sharpness effect at low settings and "off" is a bit above that), but it will also get all those other settings to the proper level where you see what is intended, instead of getting an overprocessed image.

Banjo · 11-01-2007, 10:57 PM

I wasn't bothered by the graininess. It's a natural element of the film.

However, it was the edge enhancement that I found to be somewhere stronger and a little distracting than the average Blu-ray movie. Especially in some scenes with dimmed lighting. It's only highly noticeable in one particular scene but it's subtle in several parts.

I'm referring to the first movie though. I know it's not my display, I made sure of that. I tested it on two different Blu-ray players and displays, I could see the halos in some shots which is a symptom of heightened edge enhancement.

vsbdtv · 11-02-2007, 02:14 AM

Grain and Grain, what is Grain?

aristotles · 11-02-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BStecke

While many of the opinions I've read about this suggest the same, I found the picture too smooth with my sharpness at 0. The grain is part of the image, it's just a characteristic of film. I've gotten used to it and begun to expect it to some degree. If you smooth it out, then you just have HD-DVD

Yes, grain is part of the image and so are compression artifacts but what you are doing is artificially bringing them out when that was not what the director intended.

Most TV's are setup to attract attention of passers by which is why the default on many HDTVs is to have sharpness turned up to 60 by default. You should only need sharpness turned up on soft encodes but most of the time, it should be set to zero.

Digital Filmmaker · 11-02-2007, 05:32 AM

I quite frankly never noticed the grain on either title. Wouldn't be bothered by it even if I did notice it. But, then again, I'm an old film guy, not a video guy.

People who can't live with the film look should get one of those new 120Hz TV's that do a good job at making the best films look like they were shot on video. Not my cup of tea, but if you desperately want films to not look like films, but look like video instead, that's the ticket.

WickyWoo · 11-02-2007, 05:13 PM

Take it to the mill, duh

Your ancestors 400 years ago knew that

ClaytonMG · 11-02-2007, 07:56 PM

I have heard (from professionals) that the only TV to turn the sharpness up on is an SXRD TV. Otherwise they should all be set to 0 I guess. Anyone find any truth to that? I know that when I turned the sharpness to 0 on my new SXRD it looked a little too flat but still way better than my last TV. But if I turn the sharpness to like 10-15, it looks much sharper and no halos or edge enhancement appears (until I hit around 30, then halos appear along with EE).

Manco · 11-02-2007, 08:00 PM

Personally... I use a belt sander. Works quite well.
But I do go through a heck of a lot of HDTV's.
It goes get a little expensive.

Rumor is Sony has partnered with Black & Decker for a proposed Profile 10.1 player that will deal with grain.

Can't Wait.

Ness555 · 11-03-2007, 03:58 PM

So I have a couple of Blu-ray titles, and movies such as 300 have lots of grain in them.I thought this was an issue with early blu-ray titles since they were the first ones to get released, but recently released titles have that as well. Is there a reason why they are grainy? They still look very sharp and with amazing detail, but couldn't help to notice how in certain scenes, the grain is very heavy. So any explanation on that or is it part of all titles and is it there to stay?

WinterWolf · 11-03-2007, 04:02 PM

Yeah, I get that too but I think it is because my LCD doesn't have such high contrast ratio...so in darker scenes...it gets a bit grainy...but it could also be the way the movie was encoded too...

Deciazulado · 11-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Not directed at the OP but, for everybody that asks about grain in images

For the millionth time

A PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE IS FORMED BY SILVER GRAINS

supersix4 · 11-03-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness555

So I have a couple of Blu-ray titles, and movies such as 300 have lots of grain in them.I thought this was an issue with early blu-ray titles since they were the first ones to get released, but recently released titles have that as well. Is there a reason why they are grainy? They still look very sharp and with amazing detail, but couldn't help to notice how in certain scenes, the grain is very heavy. So any explanation on that or is it part of all titles and is it there to stay?

please use the search function at the top of the page

these have all been discussed and talked about for a LONG LONG TIME

11-01-2007, 08:41 PM	#146
secret Banned Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 1	Grain gives me positive feelings though, since I grew up associating grain with mostly high quality movies in contrast to television sitcoms or tv specials. Grain is to high quality special effects and entertainment value as the ringing bell is to food, according to Pavlov's experiment. Most televisions are not created equally, so setting the sharpness to zero on some monitors might not give the same results as setting the sharpness to zero on another monitor. On one of my televisions, the sharpness looks balanced near the middle. On another television, the sweet spot is actually at zero. Similarly, on the first television, the contrast looks right at zero because the display is just naturally superbright. On the other television, the contrast looks okay at about 25%. And I'm using the THX Optimzer to calibrate both tv's. (and the THX Optimizer is doing a really good job. Even regular television programs give me a movie like feel. But that could all just be psychological. My screens might actually be way different from what it should be.) Last edited by secret; 11-01-2007 at 09:00 PM.

11-03-2007, 03:58 PM	#157
Ness555 Member Member since:Oct 2007 Blu-ray collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:2	Grain in Blu-ray films? So I have a couple of Blu-ray titles, and movies such as 300 have lots of grain in them.I thought this was an issue with early blu-ray titles since they were the first ones to get released, but recently released titles have that as well. Is there a reason why they are grainy? They still look very sharp and with amazing detail, but couldn't help to notice how in certain scenes, the grain is very heavy. So any explanation on that or is it part of all titles and is it there to stay?

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11-01-2007, 08:28 PM	#142
Beta-guy Expert Member Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray collection:23 Blu-ray reviews:1	why would I turn down my sharpness, the whole point of Hi-def is sharp image quality... the grain is annoying, but I believe as HD get addopted more and more, the studio's will focus on technologies to reduce grain, in 3 year time I doubt we'll see grain again on HDM

11-01-2007, 08:28 PM	#143
T-Town Oil Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma Home Theater Gallery:20 Blu-ray collection:42 Blu-ray reviews:3	another good thing to do (which you may already know) if you dont have a disc is to google your type of television along with settings or calibration and you can usually get a really good idea of what they should be at from someone who has probably had theirs calibrated.

11-01-2007, 08:35 PM	#145
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Actually the PS3 is a grain filter now that can reduce the amount of grain... as for the TV, i still recommend it be calibrated by a professional and left untouched after that. If you adjust that incorrectly, it could make other things (SD content) look very soft or patterns to disappear.

11-01-2007, 08:51 PM	#148
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1159 Blu-ray collection:7044 DVD collection:4040	I would try setting Iris in high, Picture brighter (make 100% white reach the maximum level without losing their lightest tones), gamma off, have detail enhancer off, turn sharpness down to minimum and then turn it up slowly (if needed) till the images comes into focus and stop there, without oversharpening it. Then after that, you can play with the detail enhancer, and gamma to suit your viewing tastes. Changing some of these settings might interact with the way the image looks so always write down where you came from and where did you go and tweak slowly

11-01-2007, 09:02 PM	#149
Frode Special Member Member since:Feb 2007	If you don't have a calibration disc, TURN OFF SHARPNESS. Especially if you're using HDMI. Having a high sharpness setting will just emphasize grain without adding detail, and also hurt general image quality, especially around edges. Get the set properly calibrated if you can, as that will not only set sharpness correct (some actually apply a reverse sharpness effect at low settings and "off" is a bit above that), but it will also get all those other settings to the proper level where you see what is intended, instead of getting an overprocessed image.

11-01-2007, 10:57 PM	#150
Banjo Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Blu-ray collection:143	I wasn't bothered by the graininess. It's a natural element of the film. However, it was the edge enhancement that I found to be somewhere stronger and a little distracting than the average Blu-ray movie. Especially in some scenes with dimmed lighting. It's only highly noticeable in one particular scene but it's subtle in several parts. I'm referring to the first movie though. I know it's not my display, I made sure of that. I tested it on two different Blu-ray players and displays, I could see the halos in some shots which is a symptom of heightened edge enhancement.

11-02-2007, 02:14 AM	#151
vsbdtv Active Member Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Atlanta, GA	Grain and Grain, what is Grain?

11-02-2007, 05:32 AM	#153
Digital Filmmaker Active Member Member since:Mar 2006 4K collection:183 Blu-ray collection:1588 DVD collection:405	I quite frankly never noticed the grain on either title. Wouldn't be bothered by it even if I did notice it. But, then again, I'm an old film guy, not a video guy. People who can't live with the film look should get one of those new 120Hz TV's that do a good job at making the best films look like they were shot on video. Not my cup of tea, but if you desperately want films to not look like films, but look like video instead, that's the ticket.

11-02-2007, 05:13 PM	#154
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Take it to the mill, duh Your ancestors 400 years ago knew that

11-02-2007, 07:56 PM	#155
ClaytonMG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2006 Location:New Brighton, MN Home Theater Gallery:16 4K collection:833 Blu-ray collection:2370 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	I have heard (from professionals) that the only TV to turn the sharpness up on is an SXRD TV. Otherwise they should all be set to 0 I guess. Anyone find any truth to that? I know that when I turned the sharpness to 0 on my new SXRD it looked a little too flat but still way better than my last TV. But if I turn the sharpness to like 10-15, it looks much sharper and no halos or edge enhancement appears (until I hit around 30, then halos appear along with EE).

11-02-2007, 08:00 PM	#156
Manco Special Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Tucumcari	Personally... I use a belt sander. Works quite well. But I do go through a heck of a lot of HDTV's. It goes get a little expensive. Rumor is Sony has partnered with Black & Decker for a proposed Profile 10.1 player that will deal with grain. Can't Wait.

11-03-2007, 04:02 PM	#158
WinterWolf Member Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Houston, Texas	Yeah, I get that too but I think it is because my LCD doesn't have such high contrast ratio...so in darker scenes...it gets a bit grainy...but it could also be the way the movie was encoded too...

11-03-2007, 04:13 PM	#159
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1159 Blu-ray collection:7044 DVD collection:4040	Not directed at the OP but, for everybody that asks about grain in images For the millionth time A PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE IS FORMED BY SILVER GRAINS

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