The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

In future sets Warner's should include a green tinted piece of cellophane that can be placed over the screen so that TTT and RotK can be viewed in a way that is consistent with Peter Jackson's new vision for FotR.

Hah hah. Good one

It would certainly be cheaper than fixing FOTR if it's actually a mistake. Not sure the fans would be satisfied with that on the whole, though I'm SURE it would have its cheerleaders.

HeKS

[flodsby]

I was just thinking about what everyone is saying about comparing the 2 different digital copies. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to compare the itunes version to the EE dvd of FOTR to see if it is the same. We all know the 2 DC have different tints, but I think the real debate should be if it is the new color grade or just the dvd master. What do you all think?

[flodsby]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

In future sets Warner's should include a green tinted piece of cellophane that can be placed over the screen so that TTT and RotK can be viewed in a way that is consistent with Peter Jackson's new vision for FotR.

LOL nice one!

[KrugStillo]

I think what some people fail to realize is that most Television manufacturers will in fact push a certain color slightly different than a competitor to make theirs stand out in a different way. When I was looking for a new set I went through a Sony Bravia LCD, a Sharp Quattron (with the added yellow, I'll never do that again), a Samsung LED and then finally a Panny Plasma which I kept because I felt it had the best color reproduction of all the sets. The Sony pushed to green no matter what I did, the sharp had nothing but sickly greenish-yellow tints on everything and the Samsung pushed to Cyan (I think) it made the reds seem crayola-ish and the blues were really prominant. Anyway my point is that anything with a slightly pushed greenish look would look horrible on any of those sets. The exception would be the Samsung but then everything would be more blueish. I'm not saying that the tint is not there it obviously is but it's quite possible that the set that a particular person is watching it on will effect the look of the color grading, even if it is calibrated because I know for a fact that it is very hard to calibrate out the push to green on a Sony set. This new color timing was most likely approved on reference monitors that are perfectly calibrated so that would explain Peter Jackson being OK with it. I't may have adverse effects on some sets that Warner and Jackson didn't forsee and those could be the people that have the most issue with it. It's a hard trade-off cause Peter Jackson would probably have to lose his new color scheme idea to please everyone and who knows if he'll bow to that.

[Jimbo976]

Originally Posted by HeKS

This thread is starting to devolve again. I'm staring to think that those of us interested in a thoughtful discussion should start taking Ken's advice and start reporting the posts of people who are basically adding nothing to the conversation except for conflict and insults.

HeKS

Well this thread isn't titles "green tinting problems plagueing the EE release of LOTR". You could likely start a thread about that though and people could discuss it there if non-green tint posts are being a bother.

I watched last night on my 58" Panny plasma from 6 feet back and it looks amazing. The increase in detail over the TE is very nice and the color timing looked good to me. It may be different than the TE but i'd take the the EE version over the TE any day. Yes that's my opinion but isn't everyone posting their opinion here?

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by 42041

Directors make questionable decisions sometimes. If I could bring back The French Connection's normal look back with a video filter, I would. But that bit of tinkering is quite irreversible unfortunately.

I'll always go wit the artists preferred vision myself.

But again, I'm not a videophile and don't even notice most things you all complain about unless I read about it on a site like this and see side by side screen shots etc.

I've never been all that concerned without how films look as I'm mainly there for the stories. I prefer HD to SD for the added sharpness and detail, but I don't pay much attention to color timing, DNR, EE and that kind of stuff much at all as videophile stuff just isn't my hobby. Movies/stories are.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hah hah. Good one

It would certainly be cheaper than fixing FOTR if it's actually a mistake. Not sure the fans would be satisfied with that on the whole, though I'm SURE it would have its cheerleaders.

HeKS

Just like they will be those to complaint that the tin offered by WB does not exactly match the tin in Fellowship of The Ring and as such is not a good thing and make's watching the movies impossible and they will make post analysing the color of it

[MEB]

Originally Posted by HeKS

This thread is starting to devolve again. I'm staring to think that those of us interested in a thoughtful discussion should start taking Ken's advice and start reporting the posts of people who are basically adding nothing to the conversation except for conflict and insults.

HeKS

Yep, just report any posts that get personal. That's what I did yesterday and the mods closed the thread while they purged the mess and at least three people ended up with suspensions. If I'd caught it sooner, maybe just one person would have been suspended and the mods wouldn't have had so much work to do to clean up the mess.

If someone gets personal, do not reply. Just report their post. If you reply in kind you'll likely end up with a suspension yourself.

Mark

[flodsby]

Originally Posted by MEB

Yep, just report any posts that get personal. That's what I did yesterday and the mods closed the thread while they purged the mess and at least three people ended up with suspensions. If I'd caught it sooner, maybe just one person would have been suspended and the mods wouldn't have had so much work to do to clean up the mess.

If someone gets personal, do not reply. Just report their post. If you reply in kind you'll likely end up with a suspension yourself.

Mark

+1

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Jimbo976

Well this thread isn't titles "green tinting problems plagueing the EE release of LOTR". You could likely start a thread about that though and people could discuss it there if non-green tint posts are being a bother.

I watched last night on my 58" Panny plasma from 6 feet back and it looks amazing. The increase in detail over the TE is very nice and the color timing looked good to me. It may be different than the TE but i'd take the the EE version over the TE any day. Yes that's my opinion but isn't everyone posting their opinion here?

I didn't suggest that posts that weren't about green tint were a bother. I said some of us should start reporting posts that are adding nothing but conflict and insults.

[Sagacious Koreo]

Arguments over the internet add nothing to anything in the first place.

[Jimbo976]

Oh so now I'm "getting paid by Warner" for enjoying the EE release of LOTR? I think that is a lot more questionable post than any I have made.

Curious if anyone has done the whole EE marathon in 1 day yet. There is no way I could stay awake to do that but we got half way through TTT last night. Maybe we'll watch the rest tonight. I have held off watching the whole set again until the EE came out on Blu-ray and it is finally here now

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Jimbo976

Curious if anyone has done the whole EE marathon in 1 day yet. There is no way I could stay awake to do that but we got half way through TTT last night. Maybe we'll watch the rest tonight. I have held off watching the whole set again until the EE came out on Blu-ray and it is finally here now

I have done so a few times with the DVD set. Started ultra early in the morning and finish at around 11 pm the same night. Fun but very long

[Sagacious Koreo]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I have done so a few times with the DVD set. Started ultra early in the morning and finish at around 11 pm the same night. Fun but very long

Ya, definitely do-able, but very draining.

[Mr. Movie Fan]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

I think what some people fail to realize is that most Television manufacturers will in fact push a certain color slightly different than a competitor to make theirs stand out in a different way. When I was looking for a new set I went through a Sony Bravia LCD, a Sharp Quattron (with the added yellow, I'll never do that again), a Samsung LED and then finally a Panny Plasma which I kept because I felt it had the best color reproduction of all the sets. The Sony pushed to green no matter what I did, the sharp had nothing but sickly greenish-yellow tints on everything and the Samsung pushed to Cyan (I think) it made the reds seem crayola-ish and the blues were really prominant. Anyway my point is that anything with a slightly pushed greenish look would look horrible on any of those sets. The exception would be the Samsung but then everything would be more blueish. I'm not saying that the tint is not there it obviously is but it's quite possible that the set that a particular person is watching it on will effect the look of the color grading, even if it is calibrated because I know for a fact that it is very hard to calibrate out the push to green on a Sony set. This new color timing was most likely approved on reference monitors that are perfectly calibrated so that would explain Peter Jackson being OK with it. I't may have adverse effects on some sets that Warner and Jackson didn't forsee and those could be the people that have the most issue with it. It's a hard trade-off cause Peter Jackson would probably have to lose his new color scheme idea to please everyone and who knows if he'll bow to that.

Yeah, on my calibrated Panny things look fine.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by 42041

Directors make questionable decisions sometimes. If I could bring back The French Connection's normal look back with a video filter, I would. But that bit of tinkering is quite irreversible unfortunately.

The cinematographer of The French Connection thought the bluray version of the film looked god-awful. I actually would love to hear some comments from Peter Doyle who color graded 70% of FOTR in 2000 and other 30% in late 2002 on the new color grading of FOTR since it is 100% altered considering all the work he put into the film originally.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by flodsby

I asked before but what does everyone think of the Botes documentary?

I watched the Botes Docs for FOTR and TT so far. Found them very enjoyable and enlightening. Very amusing shot in the FOTR Botes Doc showing all the RingWraiths in full costume on horseback, each with his own multicolored umbrella in heavy rain. They apparently had a lot of issues with weather during the filming.

BTW, you were right about the EE versions being a treat to watch, given that I never owned or watched the EE DVDs and only have the TEs to compare them to. The continuity is so much better with the EEs.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

What about death threats? Are those ok?

No

Originally Posted by flodsby

So what does everyone think of the Costa Botes documentaries?

Fantastic

Originally Posted by mredman

Then why did warner specifically come out with a statement that the transfer is not a mistake and that the transfer accuratey portrays what the filmmakers intended.

The words Peter Jackson, director and filmmaker are nowhere to be found in the official statement. That, the nature of intentionally vague PR statements issued by any corporation's PR firms, and the fact that Jackson is completely mum on the subject of the green tint is why there is lingering doubt. Jackson isn't a recluse like Terrence Malick. He answers every question out there, is active on his Facebook discussion threads, and is the same guy who compiled 40+ hours of special features for LOTR documenting every decision, down to the individual chain links in a piece of fake chain mail.

Whether you share it or not, the doubt isn't entirely unreasonable or 100% unfounded. No need to get so upset with those who doubt

Originally Posted by mredman

There is no chance that warner would lie. would do they have to gain from that nothing. All they will get from that is a law suit from PJ. Trust me what warner isues is the truth its just that somehere don't believe that which baffles me.

Before I touch on this one, I'd just like to make it clear I'm not trying to start an argument. I just think it's important to keep a cool head when discussing the tint and the official statement so as not to make broad, hyperbolic statements. It will benefit everyone involved and prevent the pot from being stirred unnecessarily if everyone avoids making such extreme points

Anyway, I agree that, in light of the official statement, it is unlikely. It would be a PR nightmare to suddenly fess up. But it happens all the time. Companies, not just movie studios, reassure consumers with PR statements and confirmations while continuing to check into complaints. They even continue to insist all is well when it's determined opposing stances would be disadvantageous to said company.

I'm not suggesting Warner is lying, but there is always a chance that any statement -- be it from an individual or a company -- is false or misleading. We're not machines, and neither are the folks who run corporations

Originally Posted by mredman

The evidence is so clear that there is no mistake. The transfer that is on the blu rays is accurate of what PJ has in mind for FOTR. Its just weird that some don't believe this even after warner came out and said there is no error with the transfer

I disagree. The evidence, subjective or objective, is not clear in either direction. That's why Jackson's thoughts on the tint would be so helpful. Whether people like the tint or not, his addressing the tint would -- at the very least -- end the error vs. intention debate. Then we could move to a debate on film revisionism

Personally, Warner Home Video's statement sent my doubt plummeting to a low 10%. But as I've examined some of the objective evidence being presented in this thread, it's floating around 20 or 25%. (No, it's probably not going to drift any higher unless a smoking gun or a PJ statement shoves it in one direction or the other.) Again, that's why Jackson addressing the tint would be so helpful, so long as he addressed the tint and not the color changes we definitely know he made beneath the tint. One sentence -- "I know about the tint, we put it there to give the film a more xyz tone" -- would put an end to that doubt entirely.

I'm sure someone would then accuse Peter Jackson of lying, but then I would cry foul. Jackson has shown himself to be very candid. If it isn't intentional and he's playing ball, I suspect we'll never hear from him. (Or see a statement that doesn't include the word "tint" in any way.) If it is intentional, he must have a reason for it. If he has a reason for it, it only stands to reason that he would want people to know what it is. Again, this is the guy who devoted entire chunks of the Appendices to individual links of chain mail. I can stress that point enough

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

What if Peter Jackson himself eventually says (in an interview or whatever) that he supervised the remastering and FOTR looks as he wants it to look now?

I would be a happy man. Like it or not, I just want to be 100% sure the tint is intentional. I know he made color changes, supervised the remastering, etc. I just want to know what artistic or thematic merit he attributes to the tint. If nothing else, it would help those confused by its presence to understand it and, perhaps, even appreciate it. Just sayin

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Will you still alter it and re-encode? Or will you leave it as is and watch it as the director intends?

Just curious. I'm used to posting more on movie sites where people are all about watching as the director intended rather than these type of A/V sites where people are more about their gear and obsessing over transfers etc.

Just a reminder: re-encodes, alternate copies, or user-created video presentations fall under the forum's piracy rules.

Please do NOT discuss, propose or suggest any re-encoding of any film.

Testing screenshots and measuring tints, colors and contrast is one thing. Discussions about creating alternate versions of a film will be subject to suspensions and bans.

Thanks!

[flodsby]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I watched the Botes Docs for FOTR and TT so far. Found them very enjoyable and enlightening. Very amusing shot in the FOTR Botes Doc showing all the RingWraiths in full costume on horseback, each with his own multicolored umbrella in heavy rain. They apparently had a lot of issues with weather during the filming.

BTW, you were right about the EE versions being a treat to watch, given that I never owned or watched the EE DVDs and only have the TEs to compare them to. The continuity is so much better with the EEs.

Yeah I saw them with the umbrellas. that was a funny scene. Glad you liked the movies. I plan to start watching them again soon.

[42041]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

I've never been all that concerned without how films look as I'm mainly there for the stories. I prefer HD to SD for the added sharpness and detail, but I don't pay much attention to color timing, DNR, EE and that kind of stuff much at all as videophile stuff just isn't my hobby. Movies/stories are.

I'm very visually oriented with films, and very appreciative of the visual craft that goes into them. To me a great A/V presentation can make all the difference between a profoundly enjoyable, moving experience and a forgettable one, or the difference between merely "watching" the film and being completely immersed in it. Technical issues really get in the way of that for me. There are films I've never cared much for until I've revisited them in all their HD big-screen glory.
Not that Fellowship is anywhere close to bad, of course, but I borrowed Two Towers yesterday and briefly watched a few scenes, and I thought the image was considerably more pleasing on my display.