Pioneer Plasma screens sales decline - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

Grisle · 01-31-2008, 09:35 PM

The 5010 is $3599 on Amazon...I may get it if it drops a little more. I really want to own a Pioneer!

alphadec · 01-31-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

It is a shame that more people are not purchasing Pioneer Plasma’s. Pioneer makes the best quality 720P and 1080P flat panel screens compared to any other brand. Most consumers are interested in price rather then picture quality. Hopefully in the future more consumers will purchase Pioneer Plasma’s so the demand increases. I would hate to one day be limited to under $1,000 1080P LCD screens. Under $1,000 1080P LCD screens are ok for other rooms in the house to save money but for the main room nothing beats a Pioneer Plasma flat panel (accept high-end ceiling mounted front projector)

Quote
“Pioneer Electronics on Thursday said its fiscal third-quarter consolidated operating revenue declined 1.7 percent, due in part to decreased sales of plasma displays and DVD recorders.”

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6527558.html

I have just got my self a new 40" widescreen tv I wanted Pioneer but my suprise when i found out that most pioneer plasma DOES NOT SUPPORT 1080P. Well they have one 50" but the price on this beyond! me. So the tv I did get was Samsung 40" LE4086BD with a picture that blows anyhting away.

Going to have this Until I can get a OLED.

So now I have orderd a Blu-ray player to have on my new tv.

lrankine · 01-31-2008, 09:42 PM

As you can tell from my sig I'm a Pioneer fanatic and based on others' definitions I guess that makes me a "high end videophile." I just purchased my setup this past Christmas based entirely on reviews I had read and my prior experience with Pioneer products. CNET flat out stated that the Kuro line was the best flat panel out there. Obviously not everyone can afford the "high end" stuff but at the end of the day as long as you're pleased with your equipment it matters not what the brand name is.

gvortex7 · 01-31-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrankine

As you can tell from my sig I'm a Pioneer fanatic and based on others' definitions I guess that makes me a "high end videophile." I just purchased my setup this past Christmas based entirely on reviews I had read and my prior experience with Pioneer products. CNET flat out stated that the Kuro line was the best flat panel out there. Obviously not everyone can afford the "high end" stuff but at the end of the day as long as you're pleased with your equipment it matters not what the brand name is.

Just remember that all brands aren't created equal.

WickyWoo · 01-31-2008, 09:50 PM

Pioneer stuff is some of the best out there. You'll get no arguement from me that it's money well spent

They've probably tapped the current market willing to spend $5k on a 50" or so TV, so until the next price drop they're not going to get a lot of bites

There's also a segment that's waiting for the new blacker than black sets

Sonny · 01-31-2008, 09:52 PM

I just recently bought both a 52''XBR5 & 60'' Pioneer K. & while the XBR5 is a sweet set, its still going back to BB (MAG) .

dialog_gvf · 01-31-2008, 11:27 PM

Ironically, I'm at this very minute debating a choice between:

PDP6010 - $5999
PDP5010 - $3999
Sony SXRD A3000 - <$2000 (road trip to Buffalo required)

Gary

jcs913 · 02-01-2008, 01:05 AM

I picked up the 5010 from BB for $3600 delivered. Paying tax on it sucked, but the thought of it not being shipped made me feel better. I was debating the 110 elite, but BB wouldn't budge on the price and honestly, for the extra grand it was not a significant enough difference for me to buy the 110.

I have owned a Panny plasma for 3 years and a Sony XBR crt for 5 before that. The PQ on the Pioneer is something special. I have not gotten it fully calibrated yet, but I know that it will look unbelieveable then. I do not know about the others sets, but the 1080P Pioneers have that 'depth' that people are always looking for and talk about. My Sony XBR had depth, because its black levels were so good. But the Pioneer exceeds that, which is saying something compared to a good crt. Pioneer will never take over more market share, that is why they are in development with Sharp. But I do believe that they will continue making stunning plasmas for years to come.

Grisle · 02-01-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs913

I picked up the 5010 from BB for $3600 delivered.

That's a great price...when did you get it?

Jordahn · 02-01-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Ironically, I'm at this very minute debating a choice between:

PDP6010 - $5999
PDP5010 - $3999
Sony SXRD A3000 - <$2000 (road trip to Buffalo required)

Gary

If money isn't an object in regards to the TV's, then by all means go with one of the plasmas. And not to peach here, I would like to voice that I'm not the type to encourage debt. So unless you can out right pay for the TV without finanacing, then go for it, and more power to you.

I own the SONY KDS-55A3000. What I'm about to say might come across as heresy, but here it goes... In "normal" and ambient lighting settings, this television rivals most plasmas I've seen (there, I said it). And in a typical dark setting (all lights turned off), the blacks are excellent! For me, I do not care for wall mounting, so that was never an issue. What is an issue to me is the viewing angle. According to the manual, the ideal viewing angle is 60 degrees perpendicular to the vertical and 130 degrees perpendicular to the horizontal which I believe to be true. This I do not mind since I enjoyed a slightly narrower viewing angle from my SONY KDF-55WF655 LCD RP. What I do find a little annoying is that when deviating from the "sweet spot," the picture does not uniformly fade. What happens is that whatever is eye level is a little bit brighter than what's above and below. You'll notice it more when bobbing your head up and down. it seems that the lower the resolution viewed, the more it's noticeable. Right now, I have Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer playing, and it's barely noticeable outside of the "sweet spot." When I have Food Network HD on, It's more apparent. Other than that, it's practically the perfect TV for me. Does anyone else know of the "phenomenon" I speak of?

HeavyHitter · 02-01-2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Ironically, I'm at this very minute debating a choice between:

PDP6010 - $5999
PDP5010 - $3999
Sony SXRD A3000 - <$2000 (road trip to Buffalo required)

Gary

I've got the 60A3000 and ISF'd. Amazing TV for the money and improved over previous SXRDs.

BluWave · 02-01-2008, 03:49 AM

Being the owner of multiple Pioneer Elite TVs and having been a retail sales associate and business owner carrying the brand, I have grown very attached to this brand and do believe in this brand as being the best at these price points. Elite is more expensive, but worth it in accuracy of color and contrast levels. I have been told a saying once or twice from others. " Sh-t or get off the toilet".... Buy the best or why buy at all. I dont always believe that but image quality does matter.

mystiksuicide · 02-01-2008, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gremal

I bought my first plasma, the Pioneer 503CMX six years ago and it was the best HT purchase I'd ever made...until I replaced it with the 5010 this month.

I agree that Pioneers should dominate plasma sales and put LCDs out of business. I never understood the mentality of saving more money just to buy a less enjoyable product you are going to use every day.

I can give you a perfect example, it's called HD DVD

Gremal · 02-01-2008, 05:11 AM

Exactly. You're already paying hundreds or thousands of dollars. Why settle for second best? Just pay a bit more and get what you really want. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice in other ways and cut back on spending, but you wouldn't be here if picture quality wasn't very important to you.

I heard that Pioneer's "extreme contrast" prototypes displayed at CES were even better than even the 5010. Pioneer is an innovation leader that doesn't rest on its laurels. I like to buy from companies that back up their marketing with design and R&D expertise.

mikenike · 02-01-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadec

I have just got my self a new 40" widescreen tv I wanted Pioneer but my suprise when i found out that most pioneer plasma DOES NOT SUPPORT 1080P. Well they have one 50" but the price on this beyond! me. So the tv I did get was Samsung 40" LE4086BD with a picture that blows anyhting away.

Current Pioneer Kuro screens at 42" with only 720p resolution are actually better than some of the 1080p screens out there. A home theater magazine I recently bought (red cover) listed one of Pioneer's screen with only 720p as their number 1 screen, and all other screens were 1080p. The reviewer states that images were just as clear as would be on a higher resolution screen, and no artifacting and excellent control over noise. Just goes to show you that having 1080p isn't all that if the TV itself isn't great. Pioneer sure puts to shame all others if they can amaze with just 720p!

I used to be enamored by anything Samsung as well, but after seeing Pioneer's stuff, I'm saving up for a Kuro!

dew912 · 02-01-2008, 06:46 AM

I have the last gen of the elite plasma, the pro1140hd. BEST PURCHASE I HAVE EVER MADE. What I can tell you about the current dillema pioneer is facing, I can say with 100% confidence pioneer is digging it's own grave by pricing them so high. I used to work at a retailer that sold pioneer, and at one point the model I had retailed for 4500, and the store cost was 2950 or so. About a year ago to date, they dropped the price of the 50'' elite to 3000, and the store cost was as low as 1750. I assume they weren't taking a hit on it, even at this price point - and they SOLD LIKE HOT CAKES at 3k, even though they were 720p when a lot of 1080p models were already out (especially LCDs). Retailers, when selling the new elites at full pop, are making about 40% on the retail cost. Most TVs don't sell nearly this high in margin. So, in order to save the elite, and quite possibly plasma technology, Pioneer should lower both their store costs and suggested retail cost. They are priced above their market value - end of discussion. The 50 1080p model should be around 3300, and the 720p should be 2600. Then they would sell. Once again I own one and I think they are BY FAR THE BEST. I prefer my 50'' Elite to my parent's Sony XBR3 LCD (kdl46xbr3) any day of the week - much better picture. However, I would not buy them at the outrageous prices today, the marginal benefit does not outweigh the cost. At last to end my rant, the 720p model I have accepts 1080p/24 and looks better then all 1080p displays I've watched blu-rays on, with the exception of the 1080p elite models.

Jordahn · 02-01-2008, 01:35 PM

+1 to Dew912, you make an excellent point in regards to the Pioneer plasma pricing point. I read an article three weeks ago that reported that Hitachi, Epson/Seiko, and SONY were all dropping their rear projection lines in favor of flat panels because of the higher flat panel adoption rate. But at the same time, the Pioneer's dropped in sales. Your point would be suported by these facts. And SONY dropping their rear projection line is why I finally purchased the KDS-55A3000 just last week. For me, I cannot justify the price difference for a "slight" increase in picture quality to the Pioneers. In fact, some of the difference in cost is the "thin" technology which allow you to wall mount the TV which is something I do not care for as voiced earlier. I paid $1800 for my TV while Jcs913 voiced that he paid $3600 for the 5010. Do I think the $1800 difference is worth it for the picture quality alone? Nope. And I'm by no means saying that this is a bad choice for everyone else. For some people, $3600 is worth the 5010 while $3600 is more worth it to me for a 55A3000 with other needs and wants.

Jordahn · 02-01-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiksuicide

I can give you a perfect example, it's called HD DVD

With HD DVD you have a dying format with very limited content. With my KDS-55A3000, I have a discontinued line what plays all 1080p content with excellent picture quality. Sorry, but that wasn't a perfect example.

Joon · 02-01-2008, 01:44 PM

As you can tell by my sig I am partial to Pioneer as well. Twice I almost bought a Bravia only to eventually get a Pioneer. If I was not engaged to be married I would have a purchased the 5010 already. It would be impossible for me to purchase any other brand with the experience I have had with my Pioneer plasmas.

JayAuritt · 02-01-2008, 01:53 PM

I had purchased the 42" Elite Kuro, but cancelled the order when I found out it wasn't 1080P. I understand that it still looks fantastic at 1081/720p, but there's no way, after buying the PS3 and a new receiver, that I'm going to buy something that will, hopefully soon, be upgraded to what I really want.

02-01-2008, 03:49 AM	#32
BluWave Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Indio, CA Blu-ray collection:93	Elite all the way! Being the owner of multiple Pioneer Elite TVs and having been a retail sales associate and business owner carrying the brand, I have grown very attached to this brand and do believe in this brand as being the best at these price points. Elite is more expensive, but worth it in accuracy of color and contrast levels. I have been told a saying once or twice from others. " Sh-t or get off the toilet".... Buy the best or why buy at all. I dont always believe that but image quality does matter.

02-01-2008, 05:11 AM	#34
Gremal Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Daddyland Home Theater Gallery:49 Blu-ray collection:184	Exactly. You're already paying hundreds or thousands of dollars. Why settle for second best? Just pay a bit more and get what you really want. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice in other ways and cut back on spending, but you wouldn't be here if picture quality wasn't very important to you. I heard that Pioneer's "extreme contrast" prototypes displayed at CES were even better than even the 5010. Pioneer is an innovation leader that doesn't rest on its laurels. I like to buy from companies that back up their marketing with design and R&D expertise. Last edited by Gremal; 02-01-2008 at 05:13 AM.

02-01-2008, 06:46 AM	#36
dew912 Junior Member Member since:Jan 2008	from an elite owner.... I have the last gen of the elite plasma, the pro1140hd. BEST PURCHASE I HAVE EVER MADE. What I can tell you about the current dillema pioneer is facing, I can say with 100% confidence pioneer is digging it's own grave by pricing them so high. I used to work at a retailer that sold pioneer, and at one point the model I had retailed for 4500, and the store cost was 2950 or so. About a year ago to date, they dropped the price of the 50'' elite to 3000, and the store cost was as low as 1750. I assume they weren't taking a hit on it, even at this price point - and they SOLD LIKE HOT CAKES at 3k, even though they were 720p when a lot of 1080p models were already out (especially LCDs). Retailers, when selling the new elites at full pop, are making about 40% on the retail cost. Most TVs don't sell nearly this high in margin. So, in order to save the elite, and quite possibly plasma technology, Pioneer should lower both their store costs and suggested retail cost. They are priced above their market value - end of discussion. The 50 1080p model should be around 3300, and the 720p should be 2600. Then they would sell. Once again I own one and I think they are BY FAR THE BEST. I prefer my 50'' Elite to my parent's Sony XBR3 LCD (kdl46xbr3) any day of the week - much better picture. However, I would not buy them at the outrageous prices today, the marginal benefit does not outweigh the cost. At last to end my rant, the 720p model I have accepts 1080p/24 and looks better then all 1080p displays I've watched blu-rays on, with the exception of the 1080p elite models.

02-01-2008, 01:35 PM	#37
Jordahn Active Member Member since:Dec 2007	+1 to Dew912, you make an excellent point in regards to the Pioneer plasma pricing point. I read an article three weeks ago that reported that Hitachi, Epson/Seiko, and SONY were all dropping their rear projection lines in favor of flat panels because of the higher flat panel adoption rate. But at the same time, the Pioneer's dropped in sales. Your point would be suported by these facts. And SONY dropping their rear projection line is why I finally purchased the KDS-55A3000 just last week. For me, I cannot justify the price difference for a "slight" increase in picture quality to the Pioneers. In fact, some of the difference in cost is the "thin" technology which allow you to wall mount the TV which is something I do not care for as voiced earlier. I paid $1800 for my TV while Jcs913 voiced that he paid $3600 for the 5010. Do I think the $1800 difference is worth it for the picture quality alone? Nope. And I'm by no means saying that this is a bad choice for everyone else. For some people, $3600 is worth the 5010 while $3600 is more worth it to me for a 55A3000 with other needs and wants. Last edited by Jordahn; 02-01-2008 at 01:39 PM.

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01-31-2008, 09:35 PM	#21
Grisle Power Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Northern California 4K collection:18 Blu-ray collection:18 Trading Score:12	The 5010 is $3599 on Amazon...I may get it if it drops a little more. I really want to own a Pioneer!

01-31-2008, 09:42 PM	#23
lrankine Member Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Asheville, NC Blu-ray reviews:3	As you can tell from my sig I'm a Pioneer fanatic and based on others' definitions I guess that makes me a "high end videophile." I just purchased my setup this past Christmas based entirely on reviews I had read and my prior experience with Pioneer products. CNET flat out stated that the Kuro line was the best flat panel out there. Obviously not everyone can afford the "high end" stuff but at the end of the day as long as you're pleased with your equipment it matters not what the brand name is.

01-31-2008, 09:50 PM	#25
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Pioneer stuff is some of the best out there. You'll get no arguement from me that it's money well spent They've probably tapped the current market willing to spend $5k on a 50" or so TV, so until the next price drop they're not going to get a lot of bites There's also a segment that's waiting for the new blacker than black sets

01-31-2008, 09:52 PM	#26
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	I just recently bought both a 52''XBR5 & 60'' Pioneer K. & while the XBR5 is a sweet set, its still going back to BB (MAG) .

01-31-2008, 11:27 PM	#27
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	Ironically, I'm at this very minute debating a choice between: PDP6010 - $5999 PDP5010 - $3999 Sony SXRD A3000 - <$2000 (road trip to Buffalo required) Gary

02-01-2008, 01:05 AM	#28
jcs913 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:576	I picked up the 5010 from BB for $3600 delivered. Paying tax on it sucked, but the thought of it not being shipped made me feel better. I was debating the 110 elite, but BB wouldn't budge on the price and honestly, for the extra grand it was not a significant enough difference for me to buy the 110. I have owned a Panny plasma for 3 years and a Sony XBR crt for 5 before that. The PQ on the Pioneer is something special. I have not gotten it fully calibrated yet, but I know that it will look unbelieveable then. I do not know about the others sets, but the 1080P Pioneers have that 'depth' that people are always looking for and talk about. My Sony XBR had depth, because its black levels were so good. But the Pioneer exceeds that, which is saying something compared to a good crt. Pioneer will never take over more market share, that is why they are in development with Sharp. But I do believe that they will continue making stunning plasmas for years to come.

02-01-2008, 01:44 PM	#39
Joon Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007 Blu-ray collection:208 Trading Score:1	As you can tell by my sig I am partial to Pioneer as well. Twice I almost bought a Bravia only to eventually get a Pioneer. If I was not engaged to be married I would have a purchased the 5010 already. It would be impossible for me to purchase any other brand with the experience I have had with my Pioneer plasmas.

02-01-2008, 01:53 PM	#40
JayAuritt Banned Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Warrington, PA Blu-ray collection:113	I had purchased the 42" Elite Kuro, but cancelled the order when I found out it wasn't 1080P. I understand that it still looks fantastic at 1081/720p, but there's no way, after buying the PS3 and a new receiver, that I'm going to buy something that will, hopefully soon, be upgraded to what I really want.

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