The Movie Review and Discussion Thread

[Foggy]

Watched Drive again, that film is different every time you watch it

Also been watching A Clockwork Orange in my media class, finishing it off tomorrow so I might do a write up of some thoughts on it although I did some a few pages back. It's funny seeing some of the disturbed and confused faces of classmates who know very little about cinema in general, nevermind Kubrick

[jhiggy23]

Surf, I'm glad you thoroughly enjoyed The New World this time around. I've been criticized even before beginning my Malick thesis for stating that The New World is my favorite Malick film, even if The Thin Red Line is his best film.

And Squid, I'm going to have to disagree. Kilcher being 14 isn't problematic in the least imo. There have been innumerable other actresses of a young age being involved in far worse on film. At no point does the film cross the line or even evoke erotic feelings. By the same token, there aren't even any true kisses in the film! Keep in mind Pocahontas was actually supposed to be 12, not 14. Having an older actress play her would've been wrong and inauthentic, just like having Chinese actors play Japanese characters.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

There have been innumerable other actresses of a young age being involved in far worse on film.

So what. Those shouldnt have occurred either. How does that help your argument?

Keep in mind Pocahontas was actually supposed to be 12, not 14. Having an older actress play her would've been wrong and inauthentic

This is a very poor reason to tolerate putting kids into adult roles. Film "authenticity" at the cost of a childs emotional well being is unacceptable. Cast an actress who looks younger than she really is. Or, write the script in such a way as to not require the child to be in adult situations.

We disagree about what the role asked of Kilcher.

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Steve46

I'm sorry you didn't like it more than that. An easy 5/5 for me.

Juno is an easy 5/5 for me as well, but you probably already knew that. Obviously everyone can't agree though.

[Steve46]

Originally Posted by KilloWertz

Juno is an easy 5/5 for me as well, but you probably already knew that. Obviously everyone can't agree though.

Yep. I could happily watch it again right now

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Steve46

Yep. I could happily watch it again right now

I could too, if there wasn't only an hour until tonight's episode of Justified.

[Steve46]

Originally Posted by KilloWertz

I could too, if there wasn't only an hour until tonight's episode of Justified.

I'm writing the review for Thursday's entry in my 100 movies series.

[Steve46]

Reviewing Midnight in Paris without giving away the twist proved impossible, but this next review was a real challenge. I completely gutted my first draft which turned out to be just a summary of the movie. I hope I did it justice:

68. Paris, Texas (1984)
Drama, 147 minutes
Directed by Wim Wenders
Starring Harry Dean Stanton, Nastassja Kinski and Dean Stockwell



The first thing to mention about Paris, Texas is how quickly the opening scene establishes a mood. We are shown sweeping shots of a desert to the sound of Ry Cooder's haunting guitar. A man who we will later know as Travis (Stanton) comes into view. He looks like he's been wandering for days. He's wearing a red cap and jeans and his beard looks several weeks old. He wanders into an isolated bar and collapses.

A local clinic tends to his injuries and contacts his brother, Walt (Stockwell), who flies from Los Angeles to collect him. It's been four years since the two last met and Walt had wondered whether Travis was still alive. Travis doesn't speak during this meeting and Walt has to show extreme patience while he waits for Travis to begin explaining what happened. In a sense, the audience is in the same situation. For almost 30 minutes, the film plays out like a total mystery.

Walt wants to fly Travis home because he took in his child as his own when Travis disappeared. Travis insists that they drive, and on using the same rental car Walt drove when he picked him up. We learn that Travis has bought some land in Paris, Texas, but he can't remember why. It's clear that Travis has been through a traumatic experience and has attempted to block out those memories.

Travis makes two important decisions during the story:

The first could spawn all manner of debate about whether it is right or wrong. His mental health is in question, and yet he makes a decision that could drastically alter someone's life; or perhaps the lives of several people. You'll have to decide for yourself whether his actions were justified.

The second decision comes as a result of a meeting with a person who used to be important in his life. In the final 25 minutes of the film, we are shown a very unusual conversation. It's tense, emotional, brave, heartbreaking and elegant all at once. It's this conversation which elevates the film to the level of greatness. The ending is almost impossible to predict early in the film, and that's something I find refreshing. Here's a film with an idea and it's perfectly executed.

Harry Dean Stanton has played so many colorful characters over the years, but Paris, Texas gives him his most significant role. He gives Travis depth and the film wouldn't work without him. His appearance and haunted expression fit the character and his performance is quiet, but powerful.

Nastassja Kinski's performance as Jane is a revelation. Watch the subtle emotions on her face and hear how expressive her voice can be as she responds to Stanton's monologue. I'm also impressed by Hunter Carson's realistic portrayal of a young boy.

It's always interesting to see things from a different viewpoint and Wim Wenders shows us how he views America. The screenplay and Ry Cooder's score work together well. This is the kind of film that seems timeless. It's a human story set in a world so large that its characters are in danger of becoming lost, but they somehow find their way.

I had to make a choice of my own in this review. Should I give away the whole story so that I could discuss some of the best scenes, or should I say just enough to set the mood? I hope that I have said enough to make you interested in seeing the film. If you do, maybe you'll understand why I withheld so much information.

If you like Paris, Texas:

I'm going to recommend another film by Wim Wenders. Wings of Desire is a German language film set in Berlin. It concerns two angels who observe human behavior and have done so for centuries. They sometimes intervene in subtle ways to shape events in people's lives. It's a quiet, reflective piece, but extremely powerful. Bruno Ganz is superb as usual, but you'll be amazed to see how Peter Falk and Nick Cave fit into the equation.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

This is a very poor reason to tolerate putting kids into adult roles. Film "authenticity" at the cost of a childs emotional well being is unacceptable. Cast an actress who looks younger than she really is. Or, write the script in such a way as to not require the child to be in adult situations.

We disagree about what the role asked of Kilcher.

I'm probably leaning slightly towards you in this debate, but at the same time I think its true that the context of the role is important (i.e., not all roles have the same emotional risk to the child). Its a case-by-case basis. Whether the role requires nudity and/or physical intimacy is huge. I'm guessing that you believe that we can't just use a line in the sand based solely on physical intimacy (e.g., no nudity or kissing = o.k.) if the role demands an emotional intimacy that is inappropriate. That is arguably the case with New World. I'm still undecided on it. How do you define this "emotional intimacy" boundary? Its quite subjective. "A role where the girl is required to have romantic feelings for an actor over 18"? "A role where the girl is asked to display feelings of affection and attraction with a much older dude."? I can imagine appropriate and inappropriate roles that fall under these definitions. For example, I think Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver is a prime example of an inappropriate role without physical nudity or physical intimacy. The context of some of her lines (talking about how guys want to have sex with her, etc) took the role completely over the line, in spite of no physical intimacy or nudity. But you can still see how this isn't easy to nail down once you start to define it in terms of emotional intimacy of the role, rather than physical intimacy of the role, which is much more objective and black/white.

[Foggy]

A Clockwork Orange

Still retains it's 10/10 from me

It's disturbing and disorientating, there was nothing like this back then and there still isn't anything similar now. It's just plain comedic nastiness

10/10

Barton Fink

What the hell happened at the end of this film?

I always have a love/hate relationship with the Coen's, usually loving their comedic stuff and disliking their dramatic stuff, although they are at the top of my fave directors list. They are just their own entity

So the odd thing about Barton Fink is that I merely liked it Didn't love it or hate it

It's a film about pseudo-intelligence and realising and confronting that, but isn't that the Coen Brothers charm, you never really know if you're missing the point or they added something just for quirks sake

That aside, it's a nice little film in how it plays out, the hotel is creepy in it's passive-gothic design, the storyline and dialogue is Coen-esque and acting is decent

It was just a good film that baffled me when John Goodman turned out to be the antichrist...

8/10

[Steve46]

Originally Posted by Foggy

A Clockwork Orange

Still retains it's 10/10 from me

It's disturbing and disorientating, there was nothing like this back then and there still isn't anything similar now. It's just plain comedic nastiness

10/10

Barton Fink

What the hell happened at the end of this film?

I always have a love/hate relationship with the Coen's, usually loving their comedic stuff and disliking their dramatic stuff, although they are at the top of my fave directors list. They are just their own entity

So the odd thing about Barton Fink is that I merely liked it Didn't love it or hate it

It's a film about pseudo-intelligence and realising and confronting that, but isn't that the Coen Brothers charm, you never really know if you're missing the point or they added something just for quirks sake

That aside, it's a nice little film in how it plays out, the hotel is creepy in it's passive-gothic design, the storyline and dialogue is Coen-esque and acting is decent

It was just a good film that baffled me when John Goodman turned out to be the antichrist...

8/10

Kubrick would have been 84 today.

A Clockwork Orange doesn't appeal to me at all for some reason. I own almost all his films, but never need to see that one again.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Steve46

Kubrick would have been 84 today.

A Clockwork Orange doesn't appeal to me at all for some reason. I own almost all his films, but never need to see that one again.

We watched it in class, a lot of people where quite disturbed by it. Also my dad was telling me yesterday that he snuck into it when it was original release before the banning when he was 16

[Steve46]

Originally Posted by Foggy

We watched it in class, a lot of people where quite disturbed by it. Also my dad was telling me yesterday that he snuck into it when it was original release before the banning when he was 16

When I was about 10, I saw someone driving around in a car in the shape of an orange. Totally round. It was advertising the film.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Steve46

When I was about 10, I saw someone driving around a car in the shape of an orange. Totally round. It was advertising the film.

Does everyone have a link to this film?

I think Clockwork Orange is my fave Kubrick film out of the ones I've seen, Space Odyssey is well made but it's damn slow The Shining has a few aging problems having a few moments coming off very comical and Full Metal Jacket has the second half that's not as strong as the first half. Clockwork Orange is near perfect for me, Kubrick is a hell of a director regardless of what I said above though

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Does everyone have a link to this film?

I think Clockwork Orange is my fave Kubrick film out of the ones I've seen, Space Odyssey is well made but it's damn slow The Shining has a few aging problems having a few moments coming off very comical and Full Metal Jacket has the second half that's not as strong as the first half. Clockwork Orange is near perfect for me, Kubrick is a hell of a director regardless of what I said above though

Clockwork is great because it points out that you can't help/change people from the outside (family, friends, government, etc etc). People can only be helped/change from within, by self-initiated action, and usually only once they've crashed and burned to the point of desperation.

Alex was desperate, but not desperate enough to help himself - he still was looking for outside "quick fixes", and thus

[Show spoiler]never got better

.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

I'm probably leaning slightly towards you in this debate, but at the same time I think its true that the context of the role is important (i.e., not all roles have the same emotional risk to the child). Its a case-by-case basis. Whether the role requires nudity and/or physical intimacy is huge. I'm guessing that you believe that we can't just use a line in the sand based solely on physical intimacy (e.g., no nudity or kissing = o.k.) if the role demands an emotional intimacy that is inappropriate. That is arguably the case with New World. I'm still undecided on it. How do you define this "emotional intimacy" boundary? Its quite subjective. "A role where the girl is required to have romantic feelings for an actor over 18"? "A role where the girl is asked to display feelings of affection and attraction with a much older dude."? I can imagine appropriate and inappropriate roles that fall under these definitions. For example, I think Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver is a prime example of an inappropriate role without physical nudity or physical intimacy. The context of some of her lines (talking about how guys want to have sex with her, etc) took the role completely over the line, in spite of no physical intimacy or nudity. But you can still see how this isn't easy to nail down once you start to define it in terms of emotional intimacy of the role, rather than physical intimacy of the role, which is much more objective and black/white.

You are right, it is subjective and the line can be grey. IMO, though, the requirements of some roles have been far enough beyond the line that it doesnt matter what color the line was. Your Jodie Foster example is one that I agree with. And in hindsight, so does Foster.

My opinion is that the adult parties involved should always err on the side of caustion with the childs welfare as the sole, not primary, but SOLE concern. Potential box office success be damned.

With regard to the dificulties that directors and casting agents face attempting to maintain authenticity of the character, I say tough shit, look harder. Ellen Page in Hard Candy is proof that it can be done.

IMO Hollywood has been far too tolerant of this practice for many, many decades.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Clockwork is great because it points out that you can't help/change people from the outside (family, friends, government, etc etc). People can only be helped/change from within, by self-initiated action, and usually only once they've crashed and burned to the point of desperation.

Alex was desperate, but not desperate enough to help himself - he still was looking for outside "quick fixes", and thus

[Show spoiler]never got better

.

Indeed, and in the end he's celebrated for being undone and let free again, whether he chooses to stay a monster is made more clear in the book though, which is one thing I like more in the film

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Indeed, and in the end he's celebrated for being undone and let free again, whether he chooses to stay a monster is made more clear in the book though, which is one thing I like more in the film

My favorite scene is the library scene in the jail where the dialogue goes

[Show spoiler]
Alex: I don't know how the treatment works - all I know is I want to be made good.
Priest: But real goodness comes from within - goodness is chosen. As soon as a man ceases to choose, he ceases to be a man (=HE BECOMES A CLOCKWORK ORANGE )

I haven't read the book - I'll have to read it soon. I know its ranked as one of the best novels ever written.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

My opinion is that the adult parties involved should always err on the side of caustion with the childs welfare as the sole, not primary, but SOLE concern. Potential box office success be damned.

good point (sole v. primary). hard though, when you have irresponsible parents being offered $$$$$

With regard to the dificulties that directors and casting agents face attempting to maintain authenticity of the character, I say tough shit, look harder. Ellen Page in Hard Candy is proof that it can be done.

yes, your "get an actress who looks younger" is a great point.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Does everyone have a link to this film?

I think Clockwork Orange is my fave Kubrick film out of the ones I've seen, Space Odyssey is well made but it's damn slow The Shining has a few aging problems having a few moments coming off very comical and Full Metal Jacket has the second half that's not as strong as the first half. Clockwork Orange is near perfect for me, Kubrick is a hell of a director regardless of what I said above though

I think it's my favorite Kubrick too.

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Clockwork is great because it points out that you can't help/change people from the outside (family, friends, government, etc etc). People can only be helped/change from within, by self-initiated action, and usually only once they've crashed and burned to the point of desperation.

Alex was desperate, but not desperate enough to help himself - he still was looking for outside "quick fixes", and thus

[Show spoiler]never got better

.

Agree completely. Especially if you read the novel with its original ending intact (the final chapter was originally edited out, and thus didn't get adapted into the movie).

Originally Posted by surfdude12

My favorite scene is the library scene in the jail where the dialogue goes

[Show spoiler]
Alex: I don't know how the treatment works - all I know is I want to be made good.
Priest: But real goodness comes from within - goodness is chosen. As soon as a man ceases to choose, he ceases to be a man (=HE BECOMES A CLOCKWORK ORANGE )

I haven't read the book - I'll have to read it soon. I know its ranked as one of the best novels ever written.

Yep, the book was awesome. It took some getting used to, since it's written entirely in the Nadsat language. Still, it's probably about 70% the same as the movie, with tons of minor changes.

My favorite line in the book (and also in the movie, in the scene referenced above): "A man who cannot choose ceases to be a man."