If I were Toshiba, I would sue Microsoft

[flyingdutchman]

Considering what we've seen from Bill Hunt regarding Microsoft's efforts in this whole sordid affair, I'm surprised no one has considered suing MS for antitrust and monopolistic measures to defeat Hi-Def for the sake of their own obvious interests.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

"Finally, here's a very good editorial piece over at Roughly Drafted. It's called Lessons from the Death of HD-DVD. The author looks back at the history of this format war, and what was going on behind-the-scenes at Sony, Toshiba, Microsoft and elsewhere in the industry, and talks about the motivations each company had for their actions, and the larger industry context and dynamics in which the war took place. One of the things I love about this piece is that it addresses in some detail what Microsoft in particular was up to: What they really wanted and why they were so eager to back HD-DVD."


I hate MS because it is obvious they had their greedy little paws in this all along only to push us all into accepting what they wanted. God, I wish MS were broken up into little companies like Ma Bell was years ago.

[Dragonraine]

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

Considering what we've seen from Bill Hunt regarding Microsoft's efforts in this whole sordid affair, I'm surprised no one has considered suing MS for antitrust and monopolistic measures to defeat Hi-Def for the sake of their own obvious interests.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

"Finally, here's a very good editorial piece over at Roughly Drafted. It's called Lessons from the Death of HD-DVD. The author looks back at the history of this format war, and what was going on behind-the-scenes at Sony, Toshiba, Microsoft and elsewhere in the industry, and talks about the motivations each company had for their actions, and the larger industry context and dynamics in which the war took place. One of the things I love about this piece is that it addresses in some detail what Microsoft in particular was up to: What they really wanted and why they were so eager to back HD-DVD."


I hate MS because it is obvious they had their greedy little paws in this all along only to push us all into accepting what they wanted. God, I wish MS were broken up into little companies like Ma Bell was years ago.

Yeah but the Ma Bell breakup didnt last very long. ALso, there is nothing to sue over. MS didnt force or coerce them into producing HD DVD.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Dragonraine

Yeah but the Ma Bell breakup didnt last very long. ALso, there is nothing to sue over. MS didnt force or coerce them into producing HD DVD.

Yes, but did you READ the article? Did you read Bill Hunt's comments? Did you read the "roughlydrafted" link? You have given me and others crap because of our anger towards MS and Toshiba. Are you Rob Enderle? You always have a disenting opinion here. This whole war stinks of Microsoft's greed and the lust for power. Toshiba got sucked in easily because of their greed and wanting to control royalties like they do with DVDs. We could have been 2 years FURTHER down the road with HD movies if it had not been for this format war. And it hasn't stopped yet, because as Bill Hunt has noted, the misinformation campaign continues with so-called "HD" downloads.

[flyingdutchman]

Originally Posted by Dragonraine

Yeah but the Ma Bell breakup didnt last very long. ALso, there is nothing to sue over. MS didnt force or coerce them into producing HD DVD.

You obviously have no idea what antitrust lawsuits are about.

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

You obviously have no idea what antitrust lawsuits are about.

Mmmmmmmm... I'll go out on a limb and say "antitrust" is a very confusing topic for most people.

What MS did can actually be considered the opposite of antitrust, because they expressly DIDN'T stifle competition through monopoly or lobbying for legislation (the definition of antitrust). What MS did was behave like a giant, capitalist enterprise, which is what they are.

A lot of finger-pointing at MS is done based upon rumor and hyped-up speculations, or conspiracy theorists reading too much between the lines. Give it a break. They are not the Antichrist and Bill Gates isn't the devil. No corporation, however, is up for sainthood. Let's just leave it at that.

[WickyWoo]

Bill and I agree that the Roughly Drafted piece is an accurate one. There isn't any hyped up speculation or BIll Gates hate here, these are simply the facts of the matter: MS saw a new market to either A- exploit, or B- threatened the market they really wanted to get into, downloads, and spent hundreds of millions to try to make sure if they weren't collecting royalties on every disc, no one was going to.

Thankfully it backfired this time

[Dragonraine]

Originally Posted by radagast

Yes, but did you READ the article? Did you read Bill Hunt's comments? Did you read the "roughlydrafted" link? You have given me and others crap because of our anger towards MS and Toshiba. Are you Rob Enderle? You always have a disenting opinion here. This whole war stinks of Microsoft's greed and the lust for power. Toshiba got sucked in easily because of their greed and wanting to control royalties like they do with DVDs. We could have been 2 years FURTHER down the road with HD movies if it had not been for this format war. And it hasn't stopped yet, because as Bill Hunt has noted, the misinformation campaign continues with so-called "HD" downloads.

Yeah thats true, I shouldnt be allowed to have my own opinion and disagree with you. Ok, let me join the mindless sheep.
I have no beef with Toshiba or MS, they didnt come to my house and piss in my cheerios, as they must have with you.

[Dragonraine]

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

You obviously have no idea what antitrust lawsuits are about.

I know very much about AntiTrust Lawsuits, and the HD-DVD/MS thing had nothing to do with AntiTrust. So I throw the statement back to you.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Dragonraine

Yeah thats true, I shouldnt be allowed to have my own opinion and disagree with you. Ok, let me join the mindless sheep.
I have no beef with Toshiba or MS, they didnt come to my house and piss in my cheerios, as they must have with you.

If you want to continue watching Blu-rays, and Toshiba and MS have their way, they WILL be pissing on your Cheerios. That's what you don't seem to care about. Do you want to wait until that happens to get upset? It will be too late then. You can have your opinion. I just don't see your logic, IF you really like Blu-ray and/or you want to be able to continue watching HD movies on a portable (disc) format.

A lot of people here think the format war is over. It isn't. Without trying to start a flame war, I just want to draw a parallel with a certain war going on. Beating down the enemy in conventional warfare didn't constitute "mission accomplished". It just shifted the type of warfare to guerrilla insurgency. Now I repreat the question. Do you want to continue watching Blu-rays in the future? Do you care to be able to watch REAL HD movies instead of a mislabeled download? If you don't, I have to wonder why you even come to this forum. What is your reason for being here?

[Sylin]

@Radagast: Well, if you want to continue drawing parallels to current events, then consider that the war you mentioned was prompted by paranoia and misinformation and hype from trigger-happy megalomaniacs.

Your theories that MS is trying to take over the world so they can liberally void in anyone's breakfast cereal seems borne out of equal amounts of paranoia and apparently you've received too much misinformation.

Bottom line: I don't care WHAT Microsoft does as long as there's still a competitive alternative. And in America, there always will be.

I'm sure everyone here appreciates your passion for this topic. But consider that if MS was really doing anything underhanded or illegal, there are enough litigious watchdogs that the public and/or government would step in.

If you don't believe that, and want to effect change, either run for office, or go vote.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by ikcizokm

@Radagast: Well, if you want to continue drawing parallels to current events, then consider that the war you mentioned was prompted by paranoia and misinformation and hype from trigger-happy megalomaniacs.

Your theories that MS is trying to take over the world so they can liberally void in anyone's breakfast cereal seems borne out of equal amounts of paranoia and apparently you've received too much misinformation.

Bottom line: I don't care WHAT Microsoft does as long as there's still a competitive alternative. And in America, there always will be.

I'm sure everyone here appreciates your passion for this topic. But consider that if MS was really doing anything underhanded or illegal, there are enough litigious watchdogs that the public and/or government would step in.

If you don't believe that, and want to effect change, either run for office, or go vote.

Making political statements about the war is what I wanted to avoid when drawing that parallel, but thanks for doing it anyway. The problem with the rest of your post is this: Microsoft is trying to eliminate competitve alternatives. As far as MS doing anything illegal, well the government isn't omniscient, regardless of what Robert Redford movies would like to portray. And even if it isn't illegal, it is unethical.

Voting has nothing to do with this issue, but thank you for bringing it up anyway.

[york weir]

Originally Posted by radagast

This whole war stinks of Microsoft's greed and the lust for power. Toshiba got sucked in easily because of their greed and wanting to control royalties like they do with DVDs

You are absolutely right. This whole war is about greed.

Toshiba wanted to continue to get royalties from either DVD or HD DVD.
Microsoft wanted to jump in to the download service.
Sony wants to get royalties for Blu-ray.

The lust for power in this world really sucks.

[tqlla]

I watched the movie Antitrust, so I know what is going on.

Toshiba wanted HDDVD to win and wanted to hear someone say it. MSFT just sold Toshiba on an idea that they already had. (the idea that they could beat out all the CE companies combined)

Toshiba conned themselves. MSFT just gave them a push

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by radagast

This whole war stinks of Microsoft's greed and the lust for power. Toshiba got sucked in easily because of their greed and wanting to control royalties like they do with DVDs.

There is only one Lord of the Ring, and he does not share power...

[flyingdutchman]

Originally Posted by Dragonraine

I know very much about AntiTrust Lawsuits, and the HD-DVD/MS thing had nothing to do with AntiTrust. So I throw the statement back to you.

Examples of illegal practices are price-fixing conspiracies, corporate mergers likely to reduce the competitive vigor of particular markets, and predatory acts designed to achieve or maintain monopoly power.

MS is using the last one to achieve monopoly power. They created this war to confuse the whole situation and to push us all into their own view of VOD. So, sorry, but the MS thing does have everything to do with antitrust.

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Bill and I agree that the Roughly Drafted piece is an accurate one. There isn't any hyped up speculation or BIll Gates hate here, these are simply the facts of the matter: MS saw a new market to either A- exploit, or B- threatened the market they really wanted to get into, downloads, and spent hundreds of millions to try to make sure if they weren't collecting royalties on every disc, no one was going to.

Thankfully it backfired this time

I have to agree with Wicky and Bill on this one as well. Amir's own comments throughout his entire involvement of this format war echo eerily to what the roughly drafted article stated.

If you can stand reading through his 9000 posts of dribble you can pick up on quite a few nuggets expand greatly on what this article said -- obviously just with MS spin.

Hindsight is truly 20/20.

[Dragonraine]

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

Examples of illegal practices are price-fixing conspiracies, corporate mergers likely to reduce the competitive vigor of particular markets, and predatory acts designed to achieve or maintain monopoly power.

MS is using the last one to achieve monopoly power. They created this war to confuse the whole situation and to push us all into their own view of VOD. So, sorry, but the MS thing does have everything to do with antitrust.

LOL. First off, thats rumor and conspiracy theory. But, everyone on this board takes it as 100% true because "Bill Hunt" says so! Also, creating a competitor is not antitrust, it is the complete opposite. VOD would be a competitor to dvd, not a monopoly. Sorry, but you fail.

Also, to make myself more clear, i dont think its a conspiracy theory that they want to get into VOD, that I know is true, but to own it, well, maybe, but its conspiracy theory right now to say it. Also, does anyone on here think its only MS that wants VOD? ALL STUDIOS want VOD eventually as it is cheaper for them to deliver it to you, they are just waiting on better copy protection im sure. Look at all the studios signing up for the xbox video thing. They all want a piece of that pie.

I myself DONT mind VOD, but i dont want ONLY vod. I prefer to own my discs, which is why i was dvd, and now BD. VOD is fine for the people who rent their movies and dont want to own them. But until a viable way of downloading ( with the same quality ) and ability to archive them comes around, ill purchase physical discs.

[Anthony P]

LOL. First off, thats rumor and conspiracy theory. But, everyone on this board takes it as 100% true because "Bill Hunt" says so! Also, creating a competitor is not antitrust, it is the complete opposite. VOD would be a competitor to dvd, not a monopoly. Sorry, but you fail.

Also, to make myself more clear, i dont think its a conspiracy theory that they want to get into VOD, that I know is true, but to own it, well, maybe, but its conspiracy theory right now to say it. Also, does anyone on here think its only MS that wants VOD? ALL STUDIOS want VOD eventually as it is cheaper for them to deliver it to you, they are just waiting on better copy protection im sure. Look at all the studios signing up for the xbox video thing. They all want a piece of that pie.

I myself DONT mind VOD, but i dont want ONLY vod. I prefer to own my discs, which is why i was dvd, and now BD. VOD is fine for the people who rent their movies and dont want to own them. But until a viable way of downloading ( with the same quality ) and ability to archive them comes around, ill purchase physical discs.

there is no conspiracy, MS has said as much. They want VOD and they want their own standard. You also don't understand the first thing about antitrust. Using your BS one can say why did the governments decide to stop MS and their Internet explorer and live bundling with the OS or their substandard Java? Let's face it by your deranged definition of antitrust all that MS was doing was giving us more choice instead of Netscape, Yahoo messenger or Sun's Java. Antitrust is all about when capitalism goes wrong and someone uses their power to force something, it is all about trying to kill a competitors product so that you can gain a monopoly with yours.

As for all studios want VOD, I am not sure what you mean but if it is DL I have not heard one that does. Most don't trust DL VOD because of the simple reason that unless the receiving system is very limited (specialized box where the box has limits) it becomes easier to move and copy and steal. Even though a disk is not the end all and be all (i.e. people can move DVD content to the HDD and then it is just digital no better or worst then DL), there is the natural fear that if the guy DL of he internet that easily then they can just UL and DL an infinite copies just as easily.

[Dragonraine]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

there is no conspiracy, MS has said as much. They want VOD and they want their own standard. You also don't understand the first thing about antitrust. Using your BS one can say why did the governments decide to stop MS and their Internet explorer and live bundling with the OS or their substandard Java? Let's face it by your deranged definition of antitrust all that MS was doing was giving us more choice instead of Netscape, Yahoo messenger or Sun's Java. Antitrust is all about when capitalism goes wrong and someone uses their power to force something, it is all about trying to kill a competitors product so that you can gain a monopoly with yours.

As for all studios want VOD, I am not sure what you mean but if it is DL I have not heard one that does. Most don't trust DL VOD because of the simple reason that unless the receiving system is very limited (specialized box where the box has limits) it becomes easier to move and copy and steal. Even though a disk is not the end all and be all (i.e. people can move DVD content to the HDD and then it is just digital no better or worst then DL), there is the natural fear that if the guy DL of he internet that easily then they can just UL and DL an infinite copies just as easily.

Did you even read my post? I said WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN VOD is secure. Also you have not heard of ONE STUDIO who wants VOD? really. I guess that list of movies on the 360 from ALMOST ALL STUDIOS except maybe Sony is just my imagination. Let me repeat, I dont want VOD, I prefer physical discs, yet you act like I do. I swear, you guys dont read any posts, you see MS in a post and you start slobbering and drooling and attacking anyone that says it.

[Dragonraine]

"there is no conspiracy, MS has said as much. They want VOD and they want their own standard. You also don't understand the first thing about antitrust. Using your BS one can say why did the governments decide to stop MS and their Internet explorer and live bundling with the OS or their substandard Java? Let's face it by your deranged definition of antitrust all that MS was doing was giving us more choice instead of Netscape, Yahoo messenger or Sun's Java. Antitrust is all about when capitalism goes wrong and someone uses their power to force something, it is all about trying to kill a competitors product so that you can gain a monopoly with yours."

Um hello? Didnt the BDA do the same thing? Dont they now have a monopoly bybeing the sole HD format? Pot meet the kettle. Everything you say can be used against Sony ( not that it should) but your arguement makes no sense. You obviously have a MS bias, just come out and admit it.