PS3 Sales in Perspective

[saprano]

Originally Posted by bajor27

No matter how you slice things, the numbers will be skewed in one way or another.

360 outsold the PS3 in the US which has a very different gaming market for games than Japan where it sells very poorly. The % also get skewed by the fact that 360 owners have different exclusives than PS3, so people who own a PS3 and not a 360 might pick up a game that is on both consoles instead of a 360 exclusive.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to Sony for not having a bigger install base isn't really fair either, as the Wii launched after the PS3 (by a few days) and has gotten pretty close to catching total 360 sales.

The fact remains that it is currently more profitable to put certain types of games out on the 360, or on both consoles. Until this changes, the PS3 won't really 'win'.

As I always state though, I don't hate the PS3. I personally feel that the 360 has some great games to offer, and more that appeal to me personally. I only bought a PS3 because of it's blu capability. I don't feel the PS3 is doing as bad as some people say it is, but it isn't doing as great as some people think it is either.

yes the ps3 is doing great, i call great when you have two systems breathing down your neck for an entire year and you STILL manage to sell console's. not to mention microsofts so called ps3 killer came out, and didn't even scratch the ps3. and i call great when you outsell something for month's on end, do you want me to go on?........and im tired of people saying 360 has better games, every single game thats on the 360 is also on the ps3. except for the obvious ones like halo,gears, and bioshock. the 360 and the ps3 has for the most part the same games, but thats going to change big time this year and all Real ps3 owners know what im talking about

[Blu-Generation]

Originally Posted by saprano

every single game thats on the 360 is also on the ps3.

You mean almost all.

As for the ones that aren't on PS3 are on PC. So pretty much the 360 barely have any exclusive.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by Blu-Generation

You mean almost all.

As for the ones that aren't on PS3 are on PC. So pretty much the 360 barely have any exclusive.

By the time they hit the PC though they've already made there money....If you were the biggest computer company in the world wouldn't you release
them on pc after awhile...

And this argument on the page is getting old, basically people like video
games enough, that it looks like all 3 systems are gonna do just fine this
cycle...

[Blu-Generation]

Originally Posted by Sith

By the time they hit the PC though they've already made there money....If you were the biggest computer company in the world wouldn't you release
them on pc after awhile...
And this argument on the page is getting old, basically people like video
games enough, that it looks like all 3 systems are gonna do just fine this
cycle...

So what's your point again?

When did I say PC can't or shouldn't get 360 games?
I don't care if a company release their games on PC or not, I was just saying that "they do".

Your comments kinda make your point pointless.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by Sith

By the time they hit the PC though they've already made there money....If you were the biggest computer company in the world wouldn't you release
them on pc after awhile...

Do you think that it's a failure for Sony if Metal Gear Solid 4 is released 6 months later on Xbox 360?

And this argument on the page is getting old, basically people like video
games enough, that it looks like all 3 systems are gonna do just fine this
cycle...

The 360 is doing pretty terribly in all actuality. No other successful console ever had sales go down from year 1 to year 2. For all the talk about terrible PS3 sales it's still doing better than the 360 did, just not in the US. Considering just how much money the 360 has lost Microsoft...and how it continues to lose money, I'll be shocked if people look back in 10 years and call the 360 a "success", assuming something major doesn't change.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Blu-Generation

You mean almost all.

As for the ones that aren't on PS3 are on PC. So pretty much the 360 barely have any exclusive.

yea thats what said.

[aphex]

I don't really mind all the people throwing false statistics at the ps3 game sales. It's just like fighting with hddvd fanboys, they'll keep saying what they're saying until they're proven wrong. By the end of the year, it's gonna be a joke to say that the 360 is the better system. The ps3 sales are gonna catch up worldwide and in the US.

[BluRayExplosion]

Originally Posted by aphex

I don't really mind all the people throwing false statistics at the ps3 game sales. It's just like fighting with hddvd fanboys, they'll keep saying what they're saying until they're proven wrong. By the end of the year, it's gonna be a joke to say that the 360 is the better system. The ps3 sales are gonna catch up worldwide and in the US.

Inaccurate. Being proven wrong has absolutely no impact on their ramblings.

[bajor27]

Originally Posted by Blu-Generation

But it won't really lose either.

I wasn't trying to say it would lose. In fact, I expect sales to be great this year.

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

Premium priced items cannot be expected to sell at the same unit rate as lower priced items... true in any market, not just games.

That's funny because I expected Blu-ray players to outsell the lower priced HD-DVD players.

Originally Posted by saprano

i call great when you have two systems breathing down your neck for an entire year and you STILL manage to sell console's. not to mention microsofts so called ps3 killer came out, and didn't even scratch the ps3. and i call great when you outsell something for month's on end, do you want me to go on?

I'm not really sure what you're referring to when you say outselling something for month's on end, but anyway, I wouldn't call being outsold by the Gameboy Advance in the US during some months last year great (Are there even any Gameboy Advance games still being made?). I wouldn't call being last in the current-gen console market doing great. And Halo 3 was pretty fricken ginormous salewise and attributed to the only one month where Wii wasn't #1 in the home consoles for last year if I'm not mistaken. The PS3 certainly survived and performed well, but I personally wouldn't say great.


And again with games, the only exclusive PS3 title that interests me this year is Little Big Planet, where as the 360 has Fable 2, Gears 2, and Too Human which all really interest me.

It's all relative in the end - we all have differing opinions based on what we think is great (saleswise and gamewise).


Oh, and I'll have to find the data again, but I'm quite sure the PS3 has the lowest attach rates of the 3 systems in the US (when looking at 2007 yearly software sales). I believe the numbers were something like 12:1 for Xbox, 10:1 for Wii, and 8:1 for PS3.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by bajor27

That's funny because I expected Blu-ray players to outsell the lower priced HD-DVD players.

Really, really lame comeback considering all of the extenuating circumstances. You know, the whole format war thing? Consider your point invalidated.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by bajor27

And again with games, the only exclusive PS3 title that interests me this year is Little Big Planet, where as the 360 has Fable 2, Gears 2, and Too Human which all really interest me.

Oh, and I'll have to find the data again, but I'm quite sure the PS3 has the lowest attach rates of the 3 systems in the US (when looking at 2007 yearly software sales). I believe the numbers were something like 12:1 for Xbox, 10:1 for Wii, and 8:1 for PS3.

We were all trying to talk about data but you are spewing opinion. Honestly I don't care what games YOU think are good in the FUTURE... the discussion was on the skewing of actual data from actual sales.

As far as attach rates, I showed sales ratios for all games in the Top 50 that are on both systems while you are throwing out numbers from your head.. and the numbers that you are trying to recall have been tweaked a lot by manipulators. Naturally '07 attach rates will be lower for a system that is earlier in its launch cycle because a higher proportion of the install base in new in that given year and therefore has been in the cycle... to get true '07 attach rates you should take total s/w sales on that console and divide by AVERAGE INSTALL BASE (avg 12/31/06 & 12/31/07 install base or do monthly) and NOT ending install base. You wouldn't get it because you;re not analytical and you buy what the spinners are selling you.

[Clark Kent]

This generation of consoles is going to look different than any other generation. I really believe it is going to be something like a 40/30/30 split worldwide with the Wii coming out on top. It's clear that Sony and Microsoft are fighting over the same customer and Nintendo has abandoned the traditional gamer for the casual gamer. Going forward I expect the PS3 to outsell the Xbox 360 on a regular basis. The limitations of the Xbox 360 design have become apparent. The only reason it has done well so far is that it captured the extreme FPS hardcore gamer segment in America by rushing the product to market. As more and more must have games show up on the PS3 that crowd will pick up a PS3 also.

[bajor27]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

Really, really lame comeback considering all of the extenuating circumstances. You know, the whole format war thing? Consider your point invalidated.

Right. It's completely reasonable to see a higher priced system doing better in a format war but completely unreasonable to think a higher priced system could do better in a console war. That's rational thinking. I'll consider my point invalidated when you actually give me evidence to prove it is.

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

We were all trying to talk about data but you are spewing opinion. Honestly I don't care what games YOU think are good in the FUTURE... the discussion was on the skewing of actual data from actual sales.

As far as attach rates, I showed sales ratios for all games in the Top 50 that are on both systems while you are throwing out numbers from your head.. and the numbers that you are trying to recall have been tweaked a lot by manipulators. Naturally '07 attach rates will be lower for a system that is earlier in its launch cycle because a higher proportion of the install base in new in that given year and therefore has been in the cycle... to get true '07 attach rates you should take total s/w sales on that console and divide by AVERAGE INSTALL BASE (avg 12/31/06 & 12/31/07 install base or do monthly) and NOT ending install base. You wouldn't get it because you;re not analytical and you buy what the spinners are selling you.

Many people have stated their opinion in this thread on the games coming out this year - certainly not just me. The only reason I brought up mine in fact was to counter some peoples' opinions that the PS3 has better exclusives this year and thus would surely take over. I was simply pointing out that not everyone feels that the exclusives for the PS3 were better.

Again why should I have to average the numbers just to make PS3 look better when I don't have to average the wii numbers? I understand what you're trying to do, but no matter how you slice it, more units are being sold on the 360. Regardless of install base, as long as the 360 can sell more units of software, big titles will continue to be developed for it and it should be able to stay competitive with the PS3 which I feel supports my belief that it won't be a landslide victory like it was for the PS2. My only one fear in that belief is due to the uncertain lifespan of the PS3. It's hard to judge how long it will be before the PS4. I know Sony has a 10 year plan but it may be hard to stay competitive if both the nextBox and a Wii 2 are released. If it can stick to it's 10 year plan though, it would only make sense that it sell more in 10 years than the 360 and wii do in 4 or 5. And I truly think that the PS3 could last that long if it didn't have to worry about it's competitors putting out new product.

Once again, I'd like to point out that I have never said I don't think the PS3 will end up winning this generation. I don't really know exactly where it will end up, but I expect things to be pretty equal by the end of their life cycles so it won't really matter.

And I apologize for not having the hard data for the attach rates earlier. I was at work and didn't really have time to find a link. I originally heard the information in a Podcast, but I was able to find a link with similar info.

I was incorrect in my earlier statement though. The attach rate number I heard before must have been for just one month, but in any event the overall attach rates for the PS3 are still lower than both the 360 and Wii as of the end of last year.

[Cordre69]

It is annoying that companies have to consider the install base, rather than going by power/potential alone. If companies release on both systems and there aren't any advantages for the PS3, then why WOULD people get the PS3 if they already have a 360? It takes games, features, AND availability to win a console war. And hell, Wii is winning the war without availability...
I know it's logical and companies need money to continue making games at ALL. I'm not naive enough to question that. But Blu came second, yet companies made a choice to go with it over HD. We need game companies to do the same. Let's stick with forward thinking, people!

[Blu-Generation]

Originally Posted by bajor27

but in any event the overall attach rates for the PS3 are still lower than both the 360 and Wii as of the end of last year.

Again, the 360 got a year head start while the Wii is cheaper. That's all there is to it.

When it all comes down to, nomatter how you slice things, those of different belief will never speak the same language. That's the reality of it all.

[tru2blu707]

Originally Posted by bajor27

And again with games, the only exclusive PS3 title that interests me this year is Little Big Planet, where as the 360 has Fable 2, Gears 2, and Too Human which all really interest me.

It's all relative in the end - we all have differing opinions based on what we think is great (saleswise and gamewise).


Oh, and I'll have to find the data again, but I'm quite sure the PS3 has the lowest attach rates of the 3 systems in the US (when looking at 2007 yearly software sales). I believe the numbers were something like 12:1 for Xbox, 10:1 for Wii, and 8:1 for PS3.

i dont know where you are getting your numbers for attached rates but here is a link that says ps3 and wii numbers are 5:1 while 360 numbers are 8.8:1

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=17099

its funny that you "seem" to like shooters like too human and gears but youre not interested in killzone2 or resistance?? resistance has 60 player battles and 8 player co op which the 360 has yet to match. lets not forget MGS4 which is an exclusive to ps3 that i think will be a better game than gears. and youre into fable but not final fantasy xiii?? final fantasy has proven to be a system seller where as fable is just for hardcore gamers. youre one of the FEW gamers that isnt interested in ps3 exclusives. even if you dont like those games coming out for the ps3...i bet those titles will sell over atleast 1million copies AND its gonna sell consoles. for the rest of us not living underneath a rock we all know that 08 will be the year of the ps3

[bajor27]

Originally Posted by tru2blu707

i dont know where you are getting your numbers for attached rates but here is a link that says ps3 and wii numbers are 5:1 while 360 numbers are 8.8:1

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=17099

its funny that you "seem" to like shooters like too human and gears but youre not interested in killzone2 or resistance?? resistance has 60 player battles and 8 player co op which the 360 has yet to match. lets not forget MGS4 which is an exclusive to ps3 that i think will be a better game than gears. and youre into fable but not final fantasy xiii?? final fantasy has proven to be a system seller where as fable is just for hardcore gamers. youre one of the FEW gamers that isnt interested in ps3 exclusives. even if you dont like those games coming out for the ps3...i bet those titles will sell over atleast 1million copies AND its gonna sell consoles. for the rest of us not living underneath a rock we all know that 08 will be the year of the ps3

I don't know why it's funny. Why should I have to want to buy every game in a genre I enjoy? I don't want to buy every comedy movie that gets released but I do enjoy some of them. I enjoy reading some fantasy novels, but I'm not interested in every fantasy novel. I'm not going to go into why I'm interested in Gears 2 and Too Human over Killzone 2 and Resistance 2. It's a pointless discussion. I will say that I'm still a bit skeptical that FF XIII will be coming out this year, so I currently am not considering it in games I may or may not want to buy this year.

As for the attach rates, I did post a follow up on that which apologized and said that the numbers I had heard must have been for only a certain month, and I posted a link to the correct numbers for their life cycles.

If you want to dismiss the 360 because of it's age, that's fine and I understand that, but the PS3 is still losing to the Wii as far as that goes (at least according to my link)

And I've said many times that I expect the PS3 to have a great year. Don't know if I stated it in this thread or another though, but I have said that I do expect yearly sales of the PS3 to be ahead of sales of the 360 in all marketplaces in 2008. I simply don't expect a blowout win for Sony this generation.

In any rate, I do appreciate the OP for taking the time to break down these numbers in a way that they see as fair. I'm pretty sure my original point was just that numbers are skewed no matter how we try to compare them as there are just too many differing factors involved. This isn't a controlled experiment where we can easily compare things.