Toshiba being investigated about HD DVD

[blu-ray fan002]

Some people viewed it as "they sold me a faulty product," or some crap like that. I had someone ask me the other day which format I preferred while the "war" was still going and, without thinking, said Blu-ray. They questioned me with why because HD DVD was cheaper. I simply said do your homework and you'll understand why. They just gave me a confused look. If someone buys something like that that quickly and doesn't do any research, then they deserve what came to them. I have still checked out people at my job that are buying HD DVDs and they continue to make comments on how stupid they think Blu-ray is. One of the people I checked out was someone I knew and when they made that kind of a comment, I told them that if they are dumb enough to buy HD DVD they they deserve what's coming to them. For those that continue to buy HD DVD, suck it up and live with the fact that you have gotten screwed and stop blaming others for your stupidity. Next time, do your homework before buying.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by sj001

People are so ridiculous these days, I certainly don't feel bad for Toshiba, but this type of crap is ridiculous.

Think of all the poor lawyers trying to struggle to put fuel in their Hummers at $3.25 a gallon. Have you NO compassion sir?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by radagast

http://www.girardgibbs.com/toshiba_h...FQPslgodNhBP9w

Punchline: A good start.

Gary

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Firms like this look for any opportunity to sue anyone.

Any court will find the plaintiffs, had they done any basic research would know the risk they were taking, and tell them to go suck a lemon, especially since the decks still work as advertised

Amen. This happened with Circuit City's Divx players (anyone remember those?), but since they still played DVD's, it was no big deal and I don't think the CAL went anywhere.

The motto of American consumerism is "caveat emptor".

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by ikcizokm

The motto of American consumerism is "caveat emptor".

Huh? More like caveat venditor.

The American consumer doesn't except personal responsibility for much.

What is amazing is, despite all the risk, the makers give the cheapest prices to the Americans, while the rest of the world gets screwed over.

Gary

[WickyWoo]

Amen. This happened with Circuit City's Divx players (anyone remember those?), but since they still played DVD's, it was no big deal and I don't think the CAL went anywhere.

Had they ever actually activated "Divx Gold", then there would have been a case, since they could not access their discs anymore (Gold permanently unlocked a disc)

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by I DO BLU

They should look at Drunk Tivo dealer for his part in it. He shilled for hd dvd

more then any dealer or store.

and AVS gave him free reign to do so.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Had they ever actually activated "Divx Gold", then there would have been a case, since they could not access their discs anymore (Gold permanently unlocked a disc)

Ironic, isn't it? Had they offered what many wanted, they would have exposed themselves to a lawsuit.

(For those confused, the player would still have to dial-up to check, which would stop working when the service closed down).

Gary

[radagast]

"Firms like this look for any opportunity to sue anyone.

Any court will find the plaintiffs, had they done any basic research would know the risk they were taking, and tell them to go suck a lemon, especially since the decks still work as advertised."

The whole point is that they are counting on Toshiba settling out of court.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can't possibly see what grounds anyone would have to win. Toshiba isn't obligated to continue losing money. If anyone should sue Toshiba, it would be the stockholders, because Toshiba didn't get out sooner.

[mikey p]

Originally Posted by radagast

The whole point is that they are counting on Toshiba settling out of court.

Wonder why they did not go after the a man, toejam and the like????

[Marquoz]

They would have to go after the studios and not Toshiba. Toshiba marketed a player, which would play the movies, not the actual movies themselves or any warranty as to the availability of the movies. As long as it can play movies that are/are not being made, they are free from liability.

[Paden]

I don't remember who it was who told me I was crazy and that there wouldn't be a lawsuit over this. But, I do have to say...

YOU WERE WRONG!

And and little "I told you so!" is deserved as well.

I also predicted that this will be settled very quickly as Toshiba won't want this to drag out for years. They've already had it with HD-DVD and won't want to play games. They'll wait for the various claims to be filed, move that they be joined and then settle everything for a $25 coupon or something silly like that.

As noted by several here, the lawyers will make their money and the consumer won't really get much, if anything.

UPDATE: It was IZZY in this thread. I guess you just lost whatever IQ you had left, Izzy. LOL!

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by Paden

I don't remember who it was who told me I was crazy and that there wouldn't be a lawsuit over this. But, I do have to say...

YOU WERE WRONG!

And and little "I told you so!" is deserved as well.

I also predicted that this will be settled very quickly as Toshiba won't want this to drag out for years. They've already had it with HD-DVD and won't want to play games. They'll wait for the various claims to be filed, move that they be joined and then settle everything for a $25 coupon or something silly like that.

As noted by several here, the lawyers will make their money and the consumer won't really get much, if anything.

UPDATE: It was IZZY in this thread. I guess you just lost whatever IQ you had left, Izzy. LOL!

Izzy wasn't wrong. There isn't a lawsuit. This firm is TRYING to start one. It won't go anywhere. Toshiba will motion to remove the case to federal court, where they'll justifiably argue that their products still work as intended, and the courts will deny the class action lawsuit application. (You cannot just arbitrarily start a CAL... you have to apply for one to state or federal court, after meeting the burden of proof, which there is none here.)

In the US, you can only bring a class action lawsuit against a manufacturer if the product is deemed defective or harmful. A bunch of disgruntled early adopters do not qualify. HD DVD's still play, Toshiba still provides warranty service on their players, and the players can play regular DVD's, as advertised.

There's no case here. Just a bunch of blood-sucking lawyers.

[Daredevil666]

I think there is a case, you don't sell millions of players and then drop the format... they should have, at least, kept the format alive like a ghost, putting out stuff from time to time, and keeping the players in stock rather than withdrawing them. Remember, those are probably the best SD DVD players ever made. Withdrawing the current stock is I think a stupid move.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dvdvision

I think there is a case, you don't sell millions of players and then drop the format...

If you lose and there's no future prospects...what else can you do? Keep throwing away tons of good money after bad on a nonprofitable venture?

They should have, at least, kept the format alive like a ghost, putting out stuff from time to time, and keeping the players in stock rather than withdrawing them.

What a waste of money and resource. That's now how you run a business if you want to make money.

Remember, those are probably the best SD DVD players ever made.

Says who?

Withdrawing the current stock is I think a stupid move.

See above comments.

It's obvious Toshiba was being subsidized for quite some time, especially once the aggressive price drops start happening culiminating in the firesales. Only MS could have helped them foot the bill on that. When MS threw them under the bus in Novemember, once the insiders behind the scenes got wind that the Warner thing was going to happen...that was the end of it.

Someone would have to dig up the stories on that, but it's clear that Toshiba had not been making money on this hardware for months.

You don't continue something like that, especially when the subsidizing backup is gone as well.

[WickyWoo]

I think there is a case, you don't sell millions of players and then drop the format... they should have, at least, kept the format alive like a ghost, putting out stuff from time to time, and keeping the players in stock rather than withdrawing them. Remember, those are probably the best SD DVD players ever made. Withdrawing the current stock is I think a stupid move.

They didn't sell millions. They sold about 500,000 players between xbox and dedicated boxes, they sold who knows how many drives bundled with laptops

THey don't have a choice about withdrawing stock, the retailers are dumping them like delicious lead filled toys

[JTK]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

They didn't sell millions.

That hyperbole is straight out of HD-DVD red zealot land isn't it? I was nice and let that one slide. I'm glad you didn't.

They sold about 500,000 players between xbox and dedicated boxes, they sold who knows how many drives bundled with laptops

Not many. Certainly all told not anywhere close to this "millions" figure.

THey don't have a choice about withdrawing stock, the retailers are dumping them like delicious lead filled toys

Another firesale of sorts. Sell, cut that biatch off, and run!

[Sylin]

In moderate defense of dvdvision, Toshiba probably DID sell millions of HD-DVD players to retail. Unfortunately, retail didn't sell millions of HD-DVD players to consumers.

[Paden]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

They didn't sell millions. They sold about 500,000 players between xbox and dedicated boxes, they sold who knows how many drives bundled with laptops

THey don't have a choice about withdrawing stock, the retailers are dumping them like delicious lead filled toys

They sold between 100,000 and 200,000 as the light was leaving their eyes, IIRC. So, I think the case is going to be brought and they'll use their own statements about HD-DVD still being the best choice as evidence the public was being misled. They'll try to get evidence from internal memos, etc. showing that Toshiba knew the end was near and still kept pushing the format only to dump inventory.

And yes, this is only the beginning, I was ahead of myself on the CAL being filed. But if one firm is looking at it, dozens are. This will happen. The world isn't the same as it was when Beta bit the dust.

[Paden]

Originally Posted by ikcizokm

In the US, you can only bring a class action lawsuit against a manufacturer if the product is deemed defective or harmful. A bunch of disgruntled early adopters do not qualify. HD DVD's still play, Toshiba still provides warranty service on their players, and the players can play regular DVD's, as advertised.

There's no case here. Just a bunch of blood-sucking lawyers.

I generally agree with your last statement.

The basis for the case won't be what you said above, however. It'll be fraud. Your limitation of CAL's to defective or harmful products is incorrect. The tenants of a building can form a class and sue the landlord if they claim the landlord misled them, for example. Once filed, the real cost usually turns out to be legal fees and irritation. We faced the prospect of fighting a case in one building where we were absolutely not guilty. The case would've cost approximately $2 to $5 million to defend. The settlement cost far less than that and after trying to disband the class for years, the decision was made to "make it go away." Toshiba will probably come to the same conclusion.