The Hobbit : An Unexpected Journey (2012) 2D/3D - March 19, 2013 Reviews

[unsung122212]

Originally Posted by sookie

Went to Walmart tonight and they had the preorder cards with Thorin, Gandalf and I can't remember the 3rd.

Picked up the Thorin one and just redeemed my copy. I've not used this method before, so from what I understand it will ship from vudu on the release date?

The third card was Bilbo. I also, got the Thorin one and I also plan to buy the 3D combo as well so the Gandalf lent. card is on the slip. I don't know if its Vudu or walmart that will ship it, they have a partnership so I would think that Walmart would ship it. Vudu and Wamart are like Bestbuy and CinemaNow.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Christopher Tolkien's objections aren't really about how his father's works are adapted into film, but rather than they're turned into films at all. To Christopher, his father's world exists solely in literature (in the minds of the readers - what J.R.R. called the "Secondary World"), and is not suitable to be adapted into the film medium.

So it's not really about any personal animosity towards Sir Peter or the film production. He's just very protective over his father's legacy.

And as far as Christopher keeping The Silmarillion from being adapted into film, keep in mind that we wouldn't even have The Silmarillion if it wasn't for him.

Interesting.
Although I hope Harriet doesn't think the same with (the late)Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. As I'd love Sir Peter to get his hands on those books!

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Christopher Tolkien's objections aren't really about how his father's works are adapted into film, but rather than they're turned into films at all. To Christopher, his father's world exists solely in literature (in the minds of the readers - what J.R.R. called the "Secondary World"), and is not suitable to be adapted into the film medium.

So it's not really about any personal animosity towards Sir Peter or the film production. He's just very protective over his father's legacy.

And as far as Christopher keeping The Silmarillion from being adapted into film, keep in mind that we wouldn't even have The Silmarillion if it wasn't for him.

I agree with this to a certain extent, but I would disagree that Christopher would totally object the stories portrayed as movies. His father stated that he hoped that "other hands and minds" would continue the saga of Middle-earth, and J.R.R.T. himself was not against a movie version of his story. Concerning the attempt of Morton Grady Zimmerman to film The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien said:

"If Z and/or others do so, they may be irritated or aggrieved by the tone of many of my criticisms. If so, I am sorry (though not surprised). But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about..... The canons of narrative art in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies."

So it is not the film that is the problem, but what is in the film. Jackson's version of Lord of the Rings succeeded largely on the basis of action and pure spectacle, with situations and cinematography previously unseen on film. But the crux of his effort was to please the masses and the action junkies. With just a little more care and understanding of the source material, he could also have addressed the intention and basis of the story as well. What the movies do not address are specific character traits and philosophical threads running through the book, some of them intentionally subtle that become obvious, intriguing, and increase with value upon repeated readings.

For example, in the chapter The Window on the West, Faramir makes a sign to Frodo and Sam that they should face West to "look towards Numenor that was, Elvenhome that is, and to that which is beyond Elvenhome and will ever be."

What is beyond Elvenhome? Valinor? True, but is there something else? Jackson touches on this occasionally, as in Moria where Gandalf tells Frodo:

"There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you were also meant to have it."

Besides the will of Evil? Meant to have it? By whom?

THAT is the intention of the story.

Unfortunately, spectacle predominates and all of this is lost. Similarly, when adding scenes in the EE, what determines the choice of the scenes? In Return of the King, on the Paths of the Dead the extra time would have allowed Aragorn and party to encounter the remains of Baldor, destined to be the future King of Rohan, lying before a door. From the book:

"Aragorn did not touch him, but after gazing silently for awhile he rose and sighed: 'Hither shall the flowers of simbelmyne come never unto world's end,' he murmured. 'Nine mounds and seven there are now green with grass, and through all the long years he has lain at the door that he could not unlock. Whither does it lead? Why would he pass? None shall ever know!'

Jackson's version:

[Insert avalanche of skulls]

These are just brief examples. Should a director with a comprehensive understanding of the material decide to film the story, I don't think Christopher would object.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

I can't say I agree with you're assessment of the films, or what they're aiming for - but that's another discussion.

I wasn't under the impression that Christopher has even seen the films, so how would he make such a judgement? Even if he has seen them in recent years, I know there was a certain point at which he had dismissive attitude of the films without having seen them.

I believe he also has serious misgivings about his father's creation being used as a marketing scheme - with all the things that come with the films: toys, memorabilia, etc.

[sookie]

Originally Posted by unsung122212

The third card was Bilbo. I also, got the Thorin one and I also plan to buy the 3D combo as well so the Gandalf lent. card is on the slip. I don't know if its Vudu or walmart that will ship it, they have a partnership so I would think that Walmart would ship it. Vudu and Wamart are like Bestbuy and CinemaNow.

Thanks, I was wondering how it worked. I will keep an eye for it when its released.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

I can't say I agree with you're assessment of the films, or what they're aiming for - but that's another discussion.

Of course this is only my two cents worth. All interpretations are equally valid because they are only opinions. But I welcome and enjoy discussing (not arguing) this topic.

I wasn't under the impression that Christopher has even seen the films, so how would he make such a judgement? Even if he has seen them in recent years, I know there was a certain point at which he had dismissive attitude of the films without having seen them.

I don't know for sure if Christopher has seen the films, but I would be surprised if he hasn't. One thing for certain is that Tolkien scholars that are his close friends have seen them. Among those, Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull, perhaps the greatest living Tolkien scholars apart from Christopher, had negative reactions to the films.

I believe he also has serious misgivings about his father's creation being used as a marketing scheme - with all the things that come with the films: toys, memorabilia, etc.

I wouldn't blame him for such misgivings, having seen the Denny's Hobbit menu.

[Snicket]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I wouldn't blame him for such misgivings, having seen the Denny's Hobbit menu.

At least they use 100% real Hobbit in their dishes. #KeepingItAuthentic

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Cook

That is purely tolkien. He speaks about pipe weed and its effects on people in his notes. It just comes across more pronounced in the visual medium. Tolkien didn't hide the fact that shire pipe weed addled the mind and created a high effect.

He didn't wink-wink imply it was marijuana. Tolkien loved TOBACCO. Celebrated it, even. Not marijuana. The parallels in Jackson's films make me wince. Every time.

[Ken Brown]

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Blu-ray Review

BTW, the book vs. film discussion many of you have been having has been fantastic. Thanks as always for posting!

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Blu-ray Review

BTW, the book vs. film discussion many of you have been having has been fantastic. Thanks as always for posting!

Thanks Ken! I'm glad you gave the film 4/5. I consider that a fair rating. I think you're review hits how I feel about the film pretty closely (even if I enjoyed some of the latter action sequences more than you did).

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Blu-ray Review

BTW, the book vs. film discussion many of you have been having has been fantastic. Thanks as always for posting!

Thanks Ken and great review as always. I was definitely in the underwhelmed camp seeing this at the IMAX, but looking forward to giving it another chance at home.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Blu-ray Review

BTW, the book vs. film discussion many of you have been having has been fantastic. Thanks as always for posting!

Ken, just finished reading your review, which I thoroughly enjoyed. As was true of the Lord of the Rings movies, yours is the best and fairest review I have seen.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Cook

Tobacco doesn't addle your mind. Tolkien may have loved tobacco, but the pipe weed in the shire was more than that.

I could have sworn it's referred to as tobacco in the books.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

I could have sworn it's referred to as tobacco in the books.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

He didn't wink-wink imply it was marijuana. Tolkien loved TOBACCO. Celebrated it, even. Not marijuana. The parallels in Jackson's films make me wince. Every time.

Yeah you are both right. I checked his notes. He clearly says, "the smoke of the burning leaves of a herb, which they called pipe weed or leaf, a variety probably of Nicotiana." I was in the wrong.

And the Review is up!

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-H...y/8529/#Review

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

And as far as Christopher keeping The Silmarillion from being adapted into film, keep in mind that we wouldn't even have The Silmarillion if it wasn't for him.

Or all the other volumes published under his dad's name since his death.

Tolkien fans are VERY fortunate that he was his son.

.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Or all the other volumes published under his dad's name since his death.

Tolkien fans are VERY fortunate that he was his son.

.

I won't deny that, but it depends on who you ask. Some say his decisions and changes to Tolkien's notes are unforgivable, and he only ever released the stuff for money and fame. Given what he had to work with and what I know I think he did as good a job with the notes as can be expected. Still doesn't mean I agree with his view on the films. If he would be open to someone else doing the other material I would hear him out, but outright locking it up I find counter to his father's goals. Tolkien set out to create a mythology for England. Mythologies evolve and spread and take on new life for each generation. What better way for that to happen than putting it to film? There are many, myself included, who would not be familiar with Tolkien without Jackson. That man opened the world to me, and I went on to read Tolkien and his notes because of the films. If that is wrong I don't want to be right. Letting it stagnant in a singular form is wasteful and only serves to help those who fear change. The books will always be there. A film can't ruin that.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

The point remains that without him, none of us would have been able to read a Middle Earth book beyond The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

The point remains that without him, none of us would have been able to read a Middle Earth book beyond The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

And if he had his way we wouldn't have the films, and I wouldn't have read tolkien. For me that would be a bigger loss.

The books Chris Tolkien has released may be culled together from Tolkien's notes, but Tolkien being an extreme perfectionist would probably be appalled at Chris releasing them. They weren't Tolkien's finished works and didn't have his approval and given what we know of Tolkien that may be wrong in and of itself. It would suck not having them, but are the books Chris put together and released really in the form that Tolkien intended us to see? Knowing Tolkien, probably not.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Cook

And if he had his way we wouldn't have the films, and I wouldn't have read tolkien. For me that would be a bigger loss.

The books Chris Tolkien has released may be culled together from Tolkien's notes, but Tolkien being an extreme perfectionist would probably be appalled at Chris releasing them. They weren't Tolkien's finished works and didn't have his approval and given what we know of Tolkien that may be wrong in and of itself. It would suck not having them, but are the books Chris put together and released really in the form that Tolkien intended us to see? Knowing Tolkien, probably not.

I'm not really arguing about the merits of the books being released in edited form - but rather just that we wouldn't even be talking about The Silmarillion being adapted or not being adapted if not for Christopher. If he'd opted not to put them out, then that would be the end of that. We wouldn't even know what we weren't getting, so to speak, on film.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Blu-ray Review

BTW, the book vs. film discussion many of you have been having has been fantastic. Thanks as always for posting!

Wow!

Those are some great screenshots!

Ken: Thanks for giving us 40 of them instead of the usual 20 that most films get.

.