Pro amps officially better than consumer amps!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by DanteMarone

Even if both your consumer pre and professional power-amp both have balanced XLR's, there will still be a level mismatch because the consumer reference is -4db, and the pro is +10 db (if I remember correctly).http://homerecording.com/bbs/general...-level-270644/ http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diyau...structure.html You can live with it, but it will compromise your system somewhat; you may be cranking your pre up to where it is distorting more than if the levels were properly matched, and you may be getting both more noise, and less than rated power from the pro-amp. Now that I've got my HT up and running, I'm working on a tri-amp speaker system to make use of all those channels of amplification maximized for just the accurate reproduction of music in stereo, and since I cant get an affordable consumer level 3-way active crossover (ain't any), for now I'm going to be using a pro-DBX 234 which is going to be level-mismatched on the input of my power amps (I'm not going to crank it far enough to where the interface with my consumer amps will be an issue, but the impedance may be mismatched as well. Once I feel it out, I probably end up getting one of those level matching devices (it's an old DBX with unbalanced 1/4 so I only needed eight 1/4' to RCA adapters, the newer 234s and 234sx have balanced or maybe both, I don't remember-or once I have the crossover frequencies sussed I may just get some of these inexpensive consumer level crossovers that aren't easily adjustable, so I would need to order them for the frequencies I need. Now I agree that bi-wiring, or "passive biamping" of speakers that have internal crossovers is USUALLY not worth the effort, but with some speakers the latter can make a significant difference depending on the design of the crossovers. And while I used to think that active bi or tri-amping was only worthwhile for professional sound reinforcement systems, I have become firmly convinced, that passive crossovers, no matter how well made, even with the silver-oil capacitors and inductors hand-wound on the thighs of Danish virgins, are the weakest link in the vast majority of systems, and really a bad idea. This article from Down Under is a bit long, but addresses the issue pretty damn comprehensively. part 1 http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm part 2 http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp2.htm Rod Elliot has a lot of other interesting and informative articles about various audio issues on that site.

Now a lot of Crown amps sound pretty good, but the majority of pro-amps would not sound good hooked up to truly hi-fidelity speakers, they would be harsh, lacking in detail (especially low-level detail) and have a serious lack of any realistic soundstage. Part of the issue is fidelity to what? If your point of reference is live rock and roll or EDM you have no point of reference for fidelity, because these music forms (of which I am a a fan of many of the former, and some of the latter) do not exist outside of electronics (well electromechanical in the case of speaker systems). What sounds "right" to you is the sound of a club, but this is a completely artificial source. You may not like jazz or classical, but they can provide a reference for fidelity-the sound of strings, reeds, skins, etc. producing live music in a particular space that is generally constructed to present these natural forms of music well. Where the vast majority of pro-amps would fail in comparison to high quality consumer amps is that when driving highly accurate speakers, when you closed your eyes the speakers would disappear, you could not point accurately to where they are if someone spun you around blindfolded first. Really good consumer gear can, with good recordings, reproduce live acoustic performances right down to the position of the instruments-not just in the left to right way that the pro-stuff can (and those often can't do that with out a noticable whole in the middle), but also front-to back, and even often height-and you get a real sense of the space they were recorded in, where the musicians and their instruments are in that space, and many low-level details. You can hear when the singer takes a breath, the guitarist is sliding his hand down the fingerboard or switches from using a pick to his fingers (Jeff Beck hasn't used a pick in decades), when the stand-up bass player doesn't move his location, but just swivels his axe on it's peg and is faxing 45 degrees different. Now I sometimes crank-up some old Ozzy-era Sabbath, Soundgarden, or Nine Inch Nails. In those cases the music never actually existed as an acoustic event, what I hear then is about as close to what the band and producers heard from the studio monitors* when they approved the mix. Reproducing loud rock only requires quantity, those sound reinforcement speakers at live gigs, in addition to high SPL's are also producing a lot of distortion. So if that is all you want to hear, go for what they use (CBGB always had great sound, no where near as distorted as at large venues). Now the Crown, and Bryston amps a lot of Brit studios use are accurate, and can do a lot of what I was describing about actual acoustic events with jazz and classical, but most pro-amps can't, they are not designed to reproduce that kind of detail or realistic soundstage. There are some similar issues with HT; get enough power and some big Sonotube based subs and the gunshots, car explosions and alien ship landings can blow you away, but check the scene where the couple is in bed. Do they sound like they are talking in a little well upholstered room with drapes and carpet? When she slides her leg up the sheet or he tussles her hair does that sound like the sounds you've heard in similar situations? Usually the primary considerations besides high-output is really solid construction for the road (an area where Behringer falls short as one of the professional posters above alluded to-if you can't bring a back-up unit, don't go there). Now there are a lot of high end systems that can reproduce a string quartet playing in a drawing room so convincingly that with your eyes closed you could almost picture them in their tuxes and gowns, and smell the champagne the help is distributing-but can't crank out loud rock and roll with any realism or balls. Then there are those high end systems that can do it all. You could throw on a Metallica live and feel like you can picture what color shirt Lars is wearing, or an old Alice in Chains and feel like you know whether Layne scored enough good dope that day. These systems do more than reproduce the music, they convey some (sometimes a lot) of the emotion of the music. You can get an idea of what I'm talking about without an appt. at a "high end salon" with a pair of headphones and a a binaural recording (at least decent specimens of both).

I believe you are confusing things a little. The +4dBu and -10dBV refer to the voltage reference levels between XLR and RCA. Please refer to the Balanced (XLR, TRS) Vs. Unbalanced (RCA, TS) Connection thread. You will find detailed explanation and calculations there.

I also have to disagree with the second paragraph of your post. I experimented with a pro amplifier and compared it to other home amplifiers. I was very impressed with the performance pro amp. I summarized the results in the bottom of Post #1 in The Official Behringer & Other Pro Amplifiers Thread.

For your information, I have spent a lifetime attending high-end audio shows and dealers and have listened to speakers that cost over a $100,000. There is no doubt in my mind that the majority of home audio amplifiers are extremely overpriced as compared to pro amplifiers. In home audio, Bob Carver proved this a long time ago and in recent years, Emotiva has done a wonderful job of building quality amplifiers and selling them significantly lower than other more established brands.