Another negative article on the PS3 that does not use logic

[HDTV1080P]

I get tired of people cutting on the fact that Sony placed a BLU-RAY drive in the PS3. If Sony would have placed a HD-DVD drive in the PS3 you would hear no complaints and the game system would have still been around the same price.. The PS3 games would not be as good of quality if a DVD-ROM disc was used. DVD’s only hold 8.5GB and with BLU-RAY games being 16GB or more either the PS3 games need to be placed on a HD-DVD disc or a BLU-RAY disc. Sony decided to go with a 50GB BLU-RAY drive which offers 20GB more then HD-DVD.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6437705.html?nid=2705


QUOTE
“I’VE OFTEN WONDERED how committed Sony Computer Entertainment chairman Ken Kutaragi was to the decision to include a Blu-ray Disc drive in every PlayStation 3 console.”

QUOTE 2
“Now, Kutaragi is leaving Sony, and his departure is being portrayed in the press as his taking the fall for the slower-than-expected start for PS3.
Maybe he is to blame. But if adding Blu-ray to PS3 wasn’t his idea, then his failure had many fathers.”
The reason some manufactories are going to combo players is because Universal Studios is still exclusive to the HD-DVD format not because of the lower priced PS3.
QUOTE number 3
“At the same time, manufacturers of stand-alone Blu-ray players are finding it hard to compete with the (relatively) lower priced PS3 console, forcing some to resort to introducing dual-format high-def players to differentiate their products, undercutting Blu-ray’s position in its battle against HD DVD.”

[Jack Torrance]

You're right, HDTV.

Sony's choice to put blu-ray into the ps3 was a smart one -- this is, after all a NEXT GENERATION console, so why use LAST GENERATION technology? Xbox 360, I'm looking in your direction...

[jorg]

poeple will do anything when they know its not true if they gte paid to do it

[JTK]

Originally Posted by jorg

poeple will do anything when they know its not true if they get paid to do it

^^ It's as simple as that, folks.

[dialog_gvf]

“At the same time, manufacturers of stand-alone Blu-ray players are finding it hard to compete with the (relatively) lower priced PS3 console, forcing some to resort to introducing dual-format high-def players to differentiate their products, undercutting Blu-ray’s position in its battle against HD DVD.”

I'm not sure I don't disagree with that one. I've said the same thing myself several times.

Gary

[HDTV1080P]

The Sony PS3 is a head of its time. In a few years when the PS 3 is selling for under $400 most likely several millions will be sold. When more HDTV games are released and consumers purchase HDTV displays to take advantage of the PS3 then once again the PS3 will be the most popular system.
Interesting read from Home Media Magazine
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/
In 2-3 years Nintendo and Microsoft are going to need to release a HDTV console that either includes a BLU-RAY drive or a HD-DVD drive. Sony will have a 2-3 year head start on HDTV games. Right now the PS3 is a few years ahead of its time.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I'm not sure I don't disagree with that one. I've said the same thing myself several times.

Gary

Gary,
I agree that the Sony PS3 being the lowest priced BLU-RAY player has hurt sales of the standalone players. It was estimated that the PS3 was being sold $200-$300 below cost. What I disagree about the article is that it suggests that manufactories are releasing higher priced combo players to compete with the PS3. If manufactories wanted to compete with the PS3 they should have decided to release second generation BLU-RAY players for around $499-$599. Universal Studios releasing in the HD-DVD format is making it very attractive for manufactories to release combo players. The PS3 did not force some manufactures to release combo players, it was Universal Studios business decision to only remain HD-DVD exclusive which is creating a demand in the market for combo players.

[The Don]

Microfud....

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I'm not sure I don't disagree with that one. I've said the same thing myself several times.

Gary

Except how can people ignore the HUNDREDS of dollars in extra parts the PS3 contains over standalone players when coming to that "conclusion".

Do the standalone players have..

Media slots?
A 60GB laptop drive?
Wireless Ethernet?
Custom RSX GPU?
Newly developed CELL processor?
New custom fan and power supply design?
Expensive new high-speed RAM and bus components?
Additional system software costs for photos, music, Linux and on-line support?
(HDMI 1.3)
(Dedicated on-line servers to support millions of users?)

So how is it possible with all of the above extras/pricier components going into the PS3 the other mfgs can't produce a blu-ray only player for at least the same price or even less than the PS3? The list above negates any "undercutting"/taking a loss that could possibly be occurring...not buying it...sounds more like a blame game being planted and spread by a certain corporation and their shills in the media...

It makes perfect sense except it doesn't

Remember to be on guard at all times...happens to the best of us.

[Iceman_II]

Gary, I have to agree with HDTV... if you are getting beaten by a better product at a lower price point, you don't compensate by developing a product that adds a 30% premium onto your already more expensive product, and sells at roughly twice the lower point.

You make a combo player because:
1. Universal is not format neutral
2. People are two stupid to realize you can get a PS3 AND a stand along HD-DVD at the same price as a combo
3. If they are smart enough to realize point 2, you are counting on them being too stupid or drunk to know which player to put which disc into.

And lastly...

4. Microsoft is funding your development costs under the table to keep the format war going

[GTP]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Gary,
I agree that the Sony PS3 being the lowest priced BLU-RAY player has hurt sales of the standalone players. It was estimated that the PS3 was being sold $200-$300 below cost. What I disagree about the article is that it suggests that manufactories are releasing higher priced combo players to compete with the PS3. If manufactories wanted to compete with the PS3 they should have decided to release second generation BLU-RAY players for around $499-$599. Universal Studios releasing in the HD-DVD format is making it very attractive for manufactories to release combo players. The PS3 did not force some manufactures to release combo players, it was Universal Studios business decision to only remain HD-DVD exclusive which is creating a demand in the market for combo players.

Universal is just not that important compared to the likes of Disney , Fox and the most popular studio from the last two years with the best grossing movies....Sony.

Universal is most definitely not the reason there is exactly one combo player...with maybe one more on the way...and the first one hasn't sold squat.
Neither will the second as average people are the ones who haven't adopted yet...and they are not going to spend 500.00...let alone 1k on a combo player.
What they want is no confusion and one format before they adopt.
What M/S and Apple want is as many combo players. as much FUD as we can stand...and then a lot more...and no winner.
They would like there to be no HD replacement for sd dvd...before their download services are ready.

You would have to be deaf, dumb , or paid to spread FUD not to have figured this out by now.

[HDTV1080P]

As a movie collector my goal is to collect movies in the format that has the best possible picture and sound quality. The BLU-RAY format technically is superior to HD-DVD when movies are mastered at higher bit rates then what the HD-DVD format can handle. Since Universal Studios is exclusive to HD-DVD a working combo player would be attractive to me and other movie collectors. Once working combo players reach the market for under $500 in late 2008 it would be an ideal solution to upgrade every DVD player in the house with a working combo player (key words working). I and most people are not going to purchase two separate HDTV players for every room in the house.
Right now since Universal Studios is exclusive to the HD-DVD format the consumer is the one that suffers since if they want to watch movies in HDTV from Universal they have to purchase two separate HDTV players. I do not own any HD-DVD titles but that might change several months to a year from now.
Currently I only have BLU-RAY, HDTV D-VHS, DVD, and Laserdisc movies in my collection. I plan on replacing the movie titles in my collection with BLU-RAY. Then again most likely some movies I own will not be released in BLU-RAY just like some of my Laserdisc movies have never been released on DVD.
The only Universal Studios movies I have in my collection are HDTV 1080I D-VHS titles and standard DVD. Maybe some Laserdisc also form Universal Studios. I have no current plans to purchase any Universal Studios movies in the HD-DVD format.
If people really want one HDTV format then they need to vote with their wallets and purchase only BLU-RAY movies. Too many movie collectors and early adopters have purchased both a BLU-RAY and HD-DVD player and are buying movies in both formats. Universal Studios and combo players are going to cause both formats to coexist. People that want to own Universal Studios movies and also want BLU-RAY to win this format war need to only purchase Universal Studios movies in the standard 480I DVD format which will play on every BLU-RAY player at standard DVD quality.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I agree that the Sony PS3 being the lowest priced BLU-RAY player has hurt sales of the standalone players. It was estimated that the PS3 was being sold $200-$300 below cost. What I disagree about the article is that it suggests that manufactories are releasing higher priced combo players to compete with the PS3.

Well, it said they are introducing combo players to "differentiate their products". That doesn't necessarily mean they are competing with the PS/3, rather the other stand-alones.

I'm not saying there isn't a negative. But, I think people expect Samsung and others to accept making very little for many years as a sign of their support of BD. These are businesses looking to make sales.

A decent combo does have a limitted time target market of all the HD DVD owners: A demographic that has already shown an interest in HD discs. It's probably a bigger market than they could expect to get for a BD stand-alone for a while.

It is a negative for BD. But, it isn't as big a negative as some people make out. HD DVD folk are starved for a working player. If they buy one of these combos, what does that mean for BD?

Gary

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by GTP

What M/S and Apple want is as many combo players. as much FUD as we can stand...and then a lot more...and no winner.
They would like there to be no HD replacement for sd dvd...before their download services are ready.
.

I would not mind having a HDTV download service in 5 years as long as the quality was at the very minimum as good as BLU-RAY and if a movie would take less then 10 minutes to download. They would also need to offer the HDTV movie at a discount price compared to BLU-RAY discs since one is using their own hard drive or blank BLU-RAY disc when purchasing the movie.
Even in a worse case scenario if both the HD-DVD and BLU-RAY formats were to fail as a movie format then BLU-RAY would still survive in the Sony PS3 system as a optical media to play HDTV games. Also BLU-RAY would still survive as a way to back up data on a computer.
So lets say one can purchase a HDTV movie over the Internet what will happen is they will end up burning the movie to a blank 50GB BLU-RAY disc in 5 years. The other solution would be to store the movies on a hard drive. If the movie download service does not allow consumers to backup the movie then consumers will be upset when the hard drive crashes and all the movies are lost. Optical media can last 100+ years under ideal conditions. Many people’s hard drives can fail in 5-10 years.

Possible future senerio

In 5-10 years most people would love to pay a $100 a month fee to be able to watch unlimited HDTV 1080P movies from Blockbuster or Netflix. People that have Verizon FIOS with future speeds of 100Meg bits per second download could enjoy a large selection of HDTV movies. With a monthly fee and access to unlimited movies to watch there would be no reason to own movies. How would the studios make money if everyone could instantly watch any movie they wanted for a $100 monthly fee? People would stop buying movies since basically one can have access to 1000’s of movies any time they want. Perhaps the movie studios would charge $5 to watch each movie instead of an unlimited monthly fee.
If you think about it in 10 years if there was 3000+ movies to choose from in HDTV that one could watch within 10 minutes there would be no reason to own movies again. Basically people would have the illusion that they already own 3000+ movies since with a monthly fee they can watch anything they want in a few minutes. If they were to cancel the unlimited service the entire movie collection is gone since it was a HDTV service that felt like you owned all the movies.

[BTBuck1]

In the Blu-ray times handout from CES there was a graph in there of projected ps3 sales. 2007 showed 4.6 million (I think they will acheive this).
for 2008 it showed 14.8 million, the ps3 is obviously expected to really take off in the 2nd and 3rd years. Following in the footsteps of ps1 & ps2.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I would not mind having a HDTV download service in 5 years as long as the quality was at the very minimum as good as BLU-RAY and if a movie would take less then 10 minutes to download. They would also need to offer the HDTV movie at a discount price compared to BLU-RAY discs since one is using their own hard drive or blank BLU-RAY disc when purchasing the movie.
Even in a worse case scenario if both the HD-DVD and BLU-RAY formats were to fail as a movie format then BLU-RAY would still survive in the Sony PS3 system as a optical media to play HDTV games. Also BLU-RAY would still survive as a way to back up data on a computer.
So lets say one can purchase a HDTV movie over the Internet what will happen is they will end up burning the movie to a black 50GB BLU-RAY disc in 5 years. The other solution would be to store the movies on a hard drive. If the movie download service does not allow consumers to backup the movie then consumers will be upset when the hard drive crashes and all the movies are lost. Optical media can last 100+ years under ideal conditions. Many people’s hard drives can fail in 5-10 years.

Possible future senerio

In 5-10 years most people would love to pay a $100 a month fee to be able to watch unlimited HDTV 1080P movies from Blockbuster or Netflix. People that have Verizon FIOS with future speeds of 100Meg bits per second download could enjoy a large selection of HDTV movies. With a monthly fee and access to unlimited movies to watch there would be no reason to own movies. How would the studios make money if everyone could instantly watch any movie they wanted for a $100 monthly fee? People would stop buying movies since basically one can have access to 1000’s of movies any time they want. Perhaps the movie studios would charge $5 to watch each movie instead of an unlimited monthly fee.
If you think about it in 10 years if there was 3000 movies to choose from in HDTV that one could watch within 10 minutes there would be no reason to own movies again. Basically people would have the illusion that they already own 3000 movies since with a monthly fee they can watch anything they want in a few minutes.

I have no problem with downloads being an option in the future...but I do have a huge problem with M/S doing everything they can to promote a format they could care less about....just so that it makes it easier for downloads to take off when the time comes.
I also don't want downloads to be the only option 5 or more years from now.

A lot of hd dvd owners are going to figure out what M/S has been up to eventually....and ask themselves...are these the same people we want in control of our HD viewing....but by then it will be too late.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit

Except how can people ignore the HUNDREDS of dollars in extra parts the PS3 contains over standalone players when coming to that "conclusion".

Do the standalone players have..

Media slots?
A 60GB laptop drive?
Wireless Ethernet?
Custom RSX GPU?
Newly developed CELL processor?
New custom fan and power supply design?
Expensive new high-speed RAM and bus components?
Additional system software costs for photos, music, Linux and on-line support?
(HDMI 1.3)
(Dedicated on-line servers to support millions of users?)

So how is it possible with all of the above extras/pricier components going into the PS3 the other mfgs can't produce a blu-ray only player for at least the same price or even less than the PS3? The list above negates any "undercutting"/taking a loss that could possibly be occurring...not buying it...sounds more like a blame game being planted and spread by a certain corporation and their shills in the media...

It makes perfect sense except it doesn't

Remember to be on guard at all times...happens to the best of us.

the difference is, ps3 takes a loss on the console because they make up the loss with,

Licensing fee's
Game sales
Accessories
Blu-ray movies
etc.

Stand alone manufacturers design and manufacture players to make money on the hardware itself, they are most likely upset because the ps3 is a double edge sword, on the one side you have that it is rapidly speeding up the adoption process, on the other it is stealing sales away from otherwise stand alone buyers. The ps3 along with HDDVD players being sold at little to no profit are going to really hurt the manufacturers profits in the short term.
This is probably why say, panasonic is furious at LG for the combo player, as it prolongs the insanity.

[nobody]

Price is an important factor, but if you can afford $400.00 what's another $200 on a product that was engineered to not go obsolete so soon. Everything it's got in it is compatible with things out now as well as things planned for the future. I don't think I need to upgrade my console for a very long time.

Like,

-HDMI v1.3, TVs aren't even released with that yet.
-Gigabit Ethernet, this does 100Mbit and will do Giga as soon as it rolls around.
-It's got a powerful processor, enough to handle current code and more complicated ones when it rolls around
-Blu-Ray Discs to hold current size games and way bigger sized games when it rolls around
-You get the picutre