HD DVD key fiasco?

[akadkins]

If there is a code for anything, eventually it will get hacked. I'm no expert, but there is always someone out there who will want to do these things. Anyone who thinks BD+ is 'unbreakable' is kidding themselves.

I just don't see why studios are stopping title production - they don't do it for DVD which would seem much more impacting that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

[nhaase]

Originally Posted by akadkins

If there is a code for anything, eventually it will get hacked. I'm no expert, but there is always someone out there who will want to do these things. Anyone who thinks BD+ is 'unbreakable' is kidding themselves.

I just don't see why studios are stopping title production - they don't do it for DVD which would seem much more impacting that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Yea, I don't think BD+ is unbreakable, but if a studio wants the most security they can get and still release products, that's what to use. I don't know why they don't pull DVD releases, but it might have something to do w/ volume. If someone breaks the code, they will still sell enough to profit well on it. For high-def, the volumes are so small right now that it might give reason for the hold-offs, but again, I don't know.

Also, high-def is as close to the master source as a consumer can get, so that might have something to do w/ it, too.

[Greenmatiz2]

As I understand it, you can buy AnyDVD and rip an HD Disc to your hard drive anyway. From what I've read, AnyDVD isn't too concerned about BD+.

[ra1024]

I'm a little confused. Does this key mean AACS is completely circumvented like DeCSS for DVD or is this just a temporary problem that will be fixed on later discs and players?

[Josh]

Originally Posted by ra1024

I'm a little confused. Does this key mean AACS is completely circumvented like DeCSS for DVD or is this just a temporary problem that will be fixed on later discs and players?

Temporary problem. DeCSS was made after finding the encryption algorithm. They haven't found that yet - only a top level key developed with it. Once they find the algorithm, or bypass the system altogether, that is when it is broken.

[blitz6speed]

Originally Posted by akadkins

I just don't see why studios are stopping title production - they don't do it for DVD which would seem much more impacting that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Why they didnt pull back DVD production, is because there is no other protection available to DVDs. HD-DVD has new AACS keys and blu-ray has the same new keys + BD+ and also ROM-Mark which is already in use since day 1. ROM-Mark is the absolute most important thing to these companys, as it prevents Bootleg blu-rays from ever being mass produced. HD-DVD can EASILY be copied, faked and spread into circulation. This is not a possibility on a wide scale on blu-ray, and never will be. BD+ is supposed to have a special protection PER disc. So Spiderman 3 will have to be cracked differently then say, Spiderman 2. Thats why FOX wanted it so badly on the BD Specs.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

BD+ is supposed to have a special protection PER disc. So Spiderman 3 will have to be cracked differently then say, Spiderman 2. Thats why FOX wanted it so badly on the BD Specs.

It's nice of Fox to be so concerned about Spiderman.

BD+ could do many things. It has a seperate secure VM, and a scripting language. And it has access to the decrypted content mux (after AACS is done). So, it could potentially do things like add a watermark, block playback if it can detect it is running on a hacked machine, enforce a firmware update, update the BD+ VM, etc.

One copy protection aspect that has been mentioned is that the authoring software would spoil the content mux (before AACS encryption) with specific "noise" that the BD+ would have to remove. So, getting past AACS would leave you with an invalid content stream.

Since the BD+ script is loaded off the disc (and is itself encrypted), each title could do something completely different, requiring the hackers to crack each BD+ script and apply the fixup(s) to the stream.

Obviously, considerably more work than the in-the-clear HD DVD content. So, you can definitely expect HD DVD to become the format of choice for the pirates (who needs enemas?).

Gary

[Josh]

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/112096/b...as-failed.html

[HDJK]

Josh, who runs the Blu-ray.com website, said...

Nice one

[blitz6speed]

Nice job josh! June seems to be thrown around quite often for BD+, i wonder if thats when the big fox comeback will be happening.

[Nismobeach]

This story was big. It was covered by everyone from hardcore establishment websites like the Financial Times of London to alternative websites like Prison Planet.

Sucks for HD-DVD, but +1 for freedom of speech.

[nhaase]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

Nice job josh! June seems to be thrown around quite often for BD+, i wonder if thats when the big fox comeback will be happening.

Let's all hope so, and hope they don't "wait to see if it proves itself," or some crap like that. I NEED Man on Fire on BD!

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Josh

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/112096/b...as-failed.html

Nice!

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Josh

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/112096/b...as-failed.html

More recently, a method was discovered using an HD DVD drive for an Xbox 360 to partially bypass the AACS system - you do not even need to have the encryption key to copy the disc content. This, Josh claims, indicates that future applications could 'bypass the system completely, meaning any key change would have zero effect on the drive's ability to read and copy media'.

MKB = Media Key Block
Process MKB = Subset-Difference Tree system
Km = Media Key
Kvu = Volume Unique Key
Encrypted Key = Encrypted Title Key
Kt = Title Key

The Volume ID is the thing they got from the drive. They do that by allowing the player software to handshake with the drive, and they pull the retrieved value using an application and modified drive firmware.

As you can see, the VID is one step of the chain leading to obtaining the title key(s). In itself it can't unlock content.

The only time they bypassed AACS was when they pulled the title keys directly from memory of the software player.

Gary

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by akadkins

If there is a code for anything, eventually it will get hacked. I'm no expert, but there is always someone out there who will want to do these things. Anyone who thinks BD+ is 'unbreakable' is kidding themselves.

I just don't see why studios are stopping title production - they don't do it for DVD which would seem much more impacting that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

If it wasn't for the weak software player, AACS would not have been circumvented. 128-bit encryption is the same level of encryption the world uses for online transactions. Proper implementation is everything when it comes to security. AACS would still be effective if it wasn't for the Xbox 360 and it's add-on player. They can't be taken out of homes, so AACS is over with. MS has screwed everyone again (mainly HD DVD consumers, though).