BOSE Acoustimass/Lifestyle systems - why you should steer clear!!

[ottscay]

It's really not bashing Bose owners to point out the shortcomings in the speakers themselves. No one here is saying "geeze you have to be retarded to have bought these speakers". If people are happy with their purchase they really have no need to take offense.

As an analogy I own a 2006 Camry. Every month there are new car magazines talking about cars that accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, all-wheel drive, etc. From time to time there are even articles expressly comparing the performance of sedans, and Camry's don't fair too well (in large part because Toyota tighten's up the governer more to achieve better safety ratings). Does that cause me to write angry letters to Car & Driver denouncing them for impugning my beloved sedan? Of course not. It also doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of cars reviewed in enthusiast rags are objectively better when it comes to enthusiast goals.

Bose speakers simply do not excell at high fidelity music reproduction. If people like them that's fine, but it's understandable that enthusiasts don't think highly of them, and on an enthusiast site like this you're nuts if you think enthusiasts aren't going to voice that opinion.

This becomes all the more true since Bose has an almost malicious marketing campaign where they try to insinuate that their speakers are top of the line and maintain a high margin on their products based on their percieved market placement. When in fact you are pretty bottom of the barrel for music fidelity, that isn't going to win you any friends amongst enthusiasts.

There are lots of reasons to enjoy audio systems, and if tiny speakers and all-in-one electronics are most important to you (or your spouse) then there's no shame in enjoying Bose for what it is, a lifestyle solution. If you're going to claim that they will reproduce the lossless track on Twister like B&W (or indeed, Klipsch) then you're off your rocker.

Some people need to get more fun out of life

[BB3]

Originally Posted by edgebsl

By whom?

Concert or stage? You have got to be kidding me right!

You're talking to someone who has been a musician his whole life and has actually played on stages with JBL vertec arrays, Claire Brothers systems.
Pro soundmen chuckle at the name BOSE. Don't even ask about my experience with this: http://www.bose.com/controller?event...ians/index.jsp
It is a joke and can't hold its own against an old fahioned bi amped wedge.

Its funny, to me it seems that the people who get worked up over BOSE, are the people who invested money in them. They won't audition other systems in the price range and say "Well I auditioned X, X and X speakers in the same price range and the BOSE had better low end extension or more detailed highs." You just get those trying to defend their purchase.

If you love your system.... great.
Chances are though...that if you shopped around ...you'd fall in love many more times over. And it is very likely, you may be angry about what you paid for your "innovation"

When's the last time you saw a TV ad for B&W? for KEF? or Paradigm?

Price a television ad and you find out where your $2000 goes when you buy an acoustimass flagship system. It sure doesnt go into driver construction.

Can you post a photo of you playing on stage please...just so I know you aren't blowing smoke up our A$$es

[Entertainment72]

Originally Posted by Woody

WHAT??!?!?

BLASPHEMY!?!?!

Did I give you a woody with that , ooohh.. I just kill myself.. I need a life.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Woody

Exactly. I didn't even mention the all-in-one convenience of a lifestyle system. Incredibly easy to hookup.

Bose will soon have HDMI also. Bose is notorious for not being cutting edge on technologies, they wait until something is established and thoroughly supported before including it.

BOSE now makes models that have HDMI connectivity (about 4-6 months)

[ottscay]

On this site, at least, there's another serious problem with the "the average consumer doesn't care" response to Bose and their lack of audio quality; the average consumer can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p mastering (especially since most of their HDTVs aren't 1080p anyways), the average consumer wants the original movie hacked up to get rid of ht black bars, and the average consumer doesn't have an audio system that can reveal the difference between older Dolby 5.1 soundtracks and 7.1 LPCM (many don't even have surround systems).

I think it's fair to say that the members of blu-ray.com generally aspire to higher fidelities of reproduction of both movies and audio. Of course many members have 720p TVs (my SXRD only accepts a 1080i signal) and some probably have EDTV displays. Many members have Bose systems, or HtiB systems, and some probably listen to the audio through the speakers attached to their displays (gasp!), but I think we can all agree that all things being equal we want the best possible audio and video quality.

Therefore I think threads like this do a service to enthusiasts, some of whom may have assumed that Bose "Better Sound Through Reseach" Systems are actually well-respected, high-end enthusiast speakers, when they are not. Those consumers shouldn't be duped into spending their money on a product that does not actually excell at the goals they have in mind. For other consumers who find that Bose meets the practical restraints of their setup, monetary, and familial needs then that's great.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ottscay

Therefore I think threads like this do a service to enthusiasts, some of whom may have assumed that Bose "Better Sound Through Reseach" Systems are actually well-respected, high-end enthusiast speakers, when they are not. Those consumers shouldn't be duped into spending their money on a product that does not actually excell at the goals they have in mind.

BINGO!!

That's why this thread is here and not at the medical forums or the word reference forums, etc.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

No doubt it is the #1 reason for people being here; we're all excited about what the future holds where movies are concerned.

I'm hoping too that we'll finally see the record labels get behind a music format. I mean, in my dreams within the next ten years there will be high resolution 5.1-7.1 remasters of The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses, Happy Mondays - Pills, Thrills N' Bellyaches, The Verve - A Northern Soul, Chapterhouse - Whirlpool, Charlatans - Some Friendly, Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine, Catherine Wheel - Crank, Blur - Leisure, Oasis - Definitely Maybe, The Farm - Spartacus, The Prodigy - Music for the Jilted Generation, Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger, Underworld - dubnobasswithmyheadman, Pearl Jam - Ten, DMB - first four albums; you know, not just the usual Classic Rock albums, but that any album has a chance of seeing a new era of music delivery.

I also want a camcorder that will give me the ability to record in a much better quality than the sub-$2,000 ones do now. 18 Mbps? I want 30 Mbps!!

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all and I want it now.

Queen fan?

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

[/B]


Queen fan?

I was thinking "Wonka" but am I on the wrong track here?

[MacDaddyOJack]

Wow, the only thing worse than a know-it-all is a self-proclaimed "audiophile" who thinks that Bose has a legitimate place in the home theatre industry....

If Bose were only marketed solely as a simple to use, all in one system then I MIGHT give them some credit. Instead, they try to make people think that they sell quality sound systems that are the pinnacle of home audio.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Woody

The best part about roughly 75% of this thread is that none of you have heard, worked with, or used Bose products. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Best not to make broad generalizations such as this. There are a good number of people on here who have heard, moved away from Bose to current setups, or own a Bose system. Most stay silent to avoid being jumped on and called names. The guys chiming in here are some of the better ones about it. Check out some of the other threads and there is a great deal more of the awful behavior you've mentioned.

Believe or not, with the exception of the biting at eachother, you and doby have had a good discussion about Bose's place in the market.

[jswilli1]

Originally Posted by Slec

Best not to make broad generalizations such as this. There are a good number of people on here who have heard, moved away from Bose to current setups, or own a Bose system. Most stay silent to avoid being jumped on and called names. The guys chiming in here are some of the better ones about it. Check out some of the other threads and there is a great deal more of the awful behavior you've mentioned.

Believe or not, with the exception of the biting at eachother, you and doby have had a good discussion about Bose's place in the market.

I have been reluctant on reading this thread, but due to its size thought maybe it was worth reading. I bought my Bose AM5/AM7 speakers back in 1995 when I reinlisted in the Navy. At the time I paid $999 for the set which included 5 cubes and two modules (later added the VCS-10 center). I still use them to this day and have them mounted from the ceiling. I still enjoy their sound and after 13 years have no issues with them. I am on my third reciever (just purchased Onkyo TX-SR805..thanks to this Forum). At the time of purchase their size was great for my small apartment in Hawaii. With four rugrats in the house having them up high is a definite plus for me. Someday I will replace/upgrade the Bose speakers (maybe when I sell the house) but until then I will just enjoy what I have in place. This Forum (overall) is a great way of educating "us" the consumers on various products. Not everyone is a "tweaker" or an avid audiophile which makes Bose products attractive by just "turning it on and enjoying".

[Slec]

Originally Posted by jswilli1

I have been reluctant on reading this thread, but due to its size thought maybe it was worth reading. I bought my Bose AM5/AM7 speakers back in 1995 when I reinlisted in the Navy. At the time I paid $999 for the set which included 5 cubes and two modules (later added the VCS-10 center). I still use them to this day and have them mounted from the ceiling. I still enjoy their sound and after 13 years have no issues with them. I am on my third reciever (just purchased Onkyo TX-SR805..thanks to this Forum). At the time of purchase their size was great for my small apartment in Hawaii. With four rugrats in the house having them up high is a definite plus for me. Someday I will replace/upgrade the Bose speakers (maybe when I sell the house) but until then I will just enjoy what I have in place. This Forum (overall) is a great way of educating "us" the consumers on various products. Not everyone is a "tweaker" or an avid audiophile which makes Bose products attractive by just "turning it on and enjoying".

Glad to hear you've had such a good experience with them! Learn as much as you can and then make your own decisions. Spec sheets aren't the end all be all of the world, they are a guide. Find the sound that's appealing to you and go for it! There are only a few rules in speaker purchasing as far as I'm concerned and none are brand specific.

[ottscay]

I think the last couple of pages since I posted before lunch has seen a further polarization of the issues here. The basic premise, that Bose speakers are in no way equivalent to similarly priced enthusiast speakers when it comes to audio fidelity is pretty much an open and shut case.

The point that many people enjoy them anyways (see jswilli1's testimony) is also clearly true, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are lots of real-world concerns that limit how far you can persue your enthusiast hobby (hence I do not own a Porsche), and obviously dealers want to meet their customer's demands.

I honestly feel the root of the problem is Bose marketing itself; it really is pernicious how they try to position themselves as highend sound. Woody is right that billing themselves as "mediocre sound" probably wouldn't sell as well, but they could emphasize their usability and lifestyle solutions rather than "Better sound through research". Bose's use of indirect sound really does "fill up" a room suprisingly well for such little speakers, and if that's what people want that's fine.

But they are worlds away from accurately reproducing music, and their "Demo" standups that place speakers inches from your head are delibrately misleading. They try to pass themselves off as high end sound, when they are at best high(ish) end electronic solutions for people that favor usability over output quality.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but as long as they claim to be something they're not you will always have enthusiasts who are justifiably irritated at those claims.

As for Coby...it's probably unfair to imply that their electronics are at the same level, Bose's Lifestyle systems are a fairly decent bit of kit in terms of usability and the sophistication of the UI. Otoh, the speakers are probably about equivalent, so it all depends on which part of a system you are comparing.

[Nick67gto]

I never would buy Bose because the horror stories i have heard about them. But one thing that Bose does well is setup material that makes their equipment sound good. Their setups at brick and mortars stores are made to attract people who have no clue about speakers. The setups are premade for people to think Bose sounds amazing and that’s bull. A Bose store is even worse it’s like a fast food restaurant where u c a big mac on the menu and its looks great and fresh (BOSE demonstration), but u end up with a burger that looks like crap and tastes worse. That’s Bose.

[Entertainment72]

People must know that you cannot compare my $800 6.1 Bose speakers of which are five plus years old now to some current set of speakers. If you want to compare then compare them with something five years ago.

I do know someone who always has and currently hates bose, when I said I was selling them they said how much ..true story .

[ottscay]

Originally Posted by Entertainment72

People must know that you cannot compare my $800 6.1 Bose speakers of which are five plus years old now to some current set of speakers. If you want to compare then compare them with something five years ago.

Yes and no; the physics of music reproduction is perhaps a little better understood now, and there have beena few materials-science advances, but fundamentally making good-sounding speakers hasn't changed very much. There were certainly speakers made 5 years ago that sounded plenty better...but not for $800 for a 6.1 system.

I do know someone who always has and currently hates bose, when I said I was selling them they said how much ..true story .

That's funny, but not really suprising; he (she?) may have had some specific use in mind for them (a second TV room?) or simply thought they were better than what they currently have, even if there's lots of room for improvement.

As I said in earlier psots, there are clearly plenty of people who enjoy Bose speakers and that's not the problem. It's the image that Bose intentionally gives off that you are getting the best possible sound - which is clearly not the case - which is irritating to people whoa re enthusiasts about getting the best sound.

To dredge up my car analogy again, it would be like Toyota claiming that the Camry is the "smart high-performance sportscar" (and maybe charging $30k for it). Now there are lots of good reasons to own a Camry (the baby seat fits in the back of mine and I get good mileage) but 0-60 time is not one of them.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Nick67gto

I never would buy Bose because the horror stories i have heard about them. But one thing that Bose does well is setup material that makes their equipment sound good. Their setups at brick and mortars stores are made to attract people who have no clue about speakers. The setups are premade for people to think Bose sounds amazing and that’s bull. A Bose store is even worse it’s like a fast food restaurant where u c a big mac on the menu and its looks great and fresh (BOSE demonstration), but u end up with a burger that looks like crap and tastes worse. That’s Bose.

What's even worse is that any store that is authorized to sell BOSE has to keep their equipment in that designated listening area and they cannot move any other company's equipment into that area for a side-by-side comparison.

Anyone in upper management of any AV store selling BOSE knows this. Haven't you ever noticed at Best Buy that it's easy to compare Sony, Yamaha, Klipsch, Polk, Infinity, etc., side by side but not BOSE?

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I was thinking "Wonka" but am I on the wrong track here?

Dunno, but the quote is from the Queen song "I want it all". I can't remember if it was used in the Wonka soundtrack.

[blindcat87]

Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if anyone has made these suggestions previously. You don't have to be an expert to get better sound or to save space.

www.orbaudio.com
www.ascendacoustics.com
www.av123.com
www.hsuresearch.com

Not only do these companies have great products in varying price ranges and varying sizes, they also almost all (not sure about Orb) have active forums with great support from other owners and all of these companies have no problem talking beginners through setup and calibration. Personally, I lean towards Ascend and AV123 for speakers and Hsu for subs, but any of these companies could provide you with a large improvement and can help you with both space and setup concerns. They also all offer in-home trial periods long enough for you to really test out the setup you go with to see how they do in your space and with your electronics.

Just something to think about.

Chris

Originally Posted by Azyiu

Woody offers some very good points. For me though, the main reasons I chose Bose are its simplicity and the easy installation. I mean, I am not hi-fi expert, and my place isn't big enough for something high-end anyway, so I thought going Bose isn't a bad choice for what I need.

We will see down the road, but for the time being I am happy with the LifeStyle 18 system that I've got. If anything at all, I only hate it for not supporting HDMI; luckily it does support optical cable.

[blindcat87]

Not so with speakers. There are speaker models out there that can still compete even after several decades of use.

My NHT SuperOnes that were part of my previous setup are still standing firm against many of the newest speakers in the same quality range. I bought them in 1997 and my younger brother is very happy that I upgraded because he gets to use them now.
Chris

Originally Posted by Entertainment72

People must know that you cannot compare my $800 6.1 Bose speakers of which are five plus years old now to some current set of speakers. If you want to compare then compare them with something five years ago.

I do know someone who always has and currently hates bose, when I said I was selling them they said how much ..true story .