Writing Screenplays...And who does it?

[duggie walker]

I'd also add that it's almost as telling to hear that people have written dozens of screenplays. The bad news is that once you've finished a screenplay, you need to write it again and again and again. Generally speaking, all first drafts are - at the very least - shallow, if not downright bad.

It'll probably take at least 2/3 drafts to get a screenplay to a point whereby nobody notices its problems on a first reading. But there's another level after that - your screenplay will be subjected to a huge amount of scrutiny and rigour, not just from the director and actors but from every other HOD on the production. It needs to be able to stand up to that kind of analysis.

You need to find a way through to a very deep, solid draft - one that stands up to scrutiny and one that meets/ exceeds the very highest standards you can imagine of yourself. Writing that draft can be even more tortuous than writing the first draft. It can only happen when you truly know your characters and the world of the film intimately, immersively and with full mastery. This is the draft where you are brutally honest with yourself about its failings - every plot hole, every convenience and cliche - and you do the hard work necessary to sort them.

Sadly, this is the draft that rarely gets done in Hollywood, and why so many films that look good on paper end up not working in the end.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

I look after my scripts over and over plenty of times to fix stuff and analyze it.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

I'd also add that it's almost as telling to hear that people have written dozens of screenplays. The bad news is that once you've finished a screenplay, you need to write it again and again and again. Generally speaking, all first drafts are - at the very least - shallow, if not downright bad.

It'll probably take at least 2/3 drafts to get a screenplay to a point whereby nobody notices its problems on a first reading. But there's another level after that - your screenplay will be subjected to a huge amount of scrutiny and rigour, not just from the director and actors but from every other HOD on the production. It needs to be able to stand up to that kind of analysis.

You need to find a way through to a very deep, solid draft - one that stands up to scrutiny and one that meets/ exceeds the very highest standards you can imagine of yourself. Writing that draft can be even more tortuous than writing the first draft. It can only happen when you truly know your characters and the world of the film intimately, immersively and with full mastery. This is the draft where you are brutally honest with yourself about its failings - every plot hole, every convenience and cliche - and you do the hard work necessary to sort them.

Sadly, this is the draft that rarely gets done in Hollywood, and why so many films that look good on paper end up not working in the end.

So true! I read the screenplay for the Nightmare on Elm Street remake and it was so bad. I am sure it was hard to write, but it seemed like a lazy 1st draft effort to me. Finshed and then never looked upon again. And that's why the movie fails so miserably in most scenes. The idea was good, really good, but the execution, the writing failed.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

I look after my scripts over and over plenty of times to fix stuff and analyze it.

Sure, not saying you don't. I'm not having a go at you though I'll admit that the very fact you call yourself Michael Bay Fan might possibly prejudice me, as I don't really think any of his films are very admirable from a screenwriting point of view.

But my next question is: What are you doing with all these screenplays? If you've finished them and you feel that you've done the necessary amount of revisions, what's stopping you from trying to get them made?

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Sure, not saying you don't. I'm not having a go at you though I'll admit that the very fact you call yourself Michael Bay Fan might possibly prejudice me, as I don't really think any of his films are very admirable from a screenwriting point of view.

But my next question is: What are you doing with all these screenplays? If you've finished them and you feel that you've done the necessary amount of revisions, what's stopping you from trying to get them made?

Don't let the name fool you. None of my scripts are very Bay like except for one.

What's stopping me? A ton of things really. mainly those who share the same interests as me. At the moment I like to think of myself as a one man army. So what am I doing with them? Just hoarding them up i suppose. Waiting until I can finally do something with some. It's also a good way to keep me busy.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

Don't let the name fool you. None of my scripts are very Bay like except for one.

What's stopping me? A ton of things really. mainly those who share the same interests as me. At the moment I like to think of myself as a one man army. So what am I doing with them? Just hoarding them up i suppose. Waiting until I can finally do something with some. It's also a good way to keep me busy.

Well, if you seriously want to make movies for a living then I wouldn't recommend waiting. Some people are lucky but for most,it takes a long time to build up a career. You may not feel ready to approach agents but it'd be a good idea to hook up with some film students or get together with some friends and actually make something. In the same way you're not a writer until you finish something, you're not a screenwriter until something makes it to a screen.

Just some friendly advice; take it or leave it.

[Yojimbo68]

When I first started writing, I never knew were I was going. This can lead you to a dead end. It's always a good idea to map out a destination. Say you're going on a road trip from NYC to LA. You need to know the route. It's the same way in screenplay writing. But I always leave room for little detours. You might discover something wonderful.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Well, if you seriously want to make movies for a living then I wouldn't recommend waiting. Some people are lucky but for most,it takes a long time to build up a career. You may not feel ready to approach agents but it'd be a good idea to hook up with some film students or get together with some friends and actually make something. In the same way you're not a writer until you finish something, you're not a screenwriter until something makes it to a screen.

Just some friendly advice; take it or leave it.

Oh, trust me I know. I've been looking at Craigslist and even made a few posts. Along with putting some stuff out there on Facebook. I just feel my biggest problem is my location. Nobody here is really interested in what I'm trying to do. Why I'm trying to get a job and save up to move else where so that I can connect with those who have the same passions as me. Biggest thing to do is make connections. And or so favors for people. So in the future you could go remember when I did that thing for you? Think you could help me with this one thing I'm trying to do?

[Mad Dad]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

Oh, trust me I know. I've been looking at Craigslist and even made a few posts. Along with putting some stuff out there on Facebook. I just feel my biggest problem is my location. Nobody here is really interested in what I'm trying to do. Why I'm trying to get a job and save up to move else where so that I can connect with those who have the same passions as me. Biggest thing to do is make connections. And or so favors for people. So in the future you could go remember when I did that thing for you? Think you could help me with this one thing I'm trying to do?

Just curious, but where would you feel it necessary to move to, where communicating by computer isn't an option?

[Elbie]

I have always wanted to do one, but honestly don't think I could ever do it. I know I could, because I can write, but I just have my mind on so many other things that me sitting down and doing it, just doesn't seem like it will happen.

I run a video production company and would love to start doing film stuff. I want to start out with a short film and then work my way up. I see myself more as a director than someone actually doing the screenplay.

Good thread.

[remake]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

Don't let the name fool you. None of my scripts are very Bay like except for one.

What's stopping me? A ton of things really. mainly those who share the same interests as me. At the moment I like to think of myself as a one man army. So what am I doing with them? Just hoarding them up i suppose. Waiting until I can finally do something with some. It's also a good way to keep me busy.

I've told you a hundred times before, all the grammar errors and misspellings in your scripts are going to ruin any chances of you becoming a successful screenwriter. You need to go back and fix EVERYTHING. Re-read it all the time. Sometimes I'll catch a tiny mistake in my scripts that I've read over multiple times.

[Cabby]

I've been writing screenplays since I was 13 years old and I can tell that as I've gotten older it's improved vastly. Now when I read my screenplays written when I was younger they are horrible but my more recent one(s) the dialogue, characters, and overall narrative structure are improved. I don't think I'm that good yet but I'm still young and I'm still learning. I'm starting college next fall where I'll learn film and hopefully learn the art of film-making itself in terms of technical equipment, and directing as I'm an aspiring writer-director, rather than just one alone.

I just finished a screenplay about a month ago and it took me about six months to write but the research, outlining, and drafting took me about a good eight months prior so it's definitely an arduous task but if you're passionate and committed, it's doable and fun if you've got a good story and characters to work with.

[SethRex]

Good for you Cabby. I'm also an aspiring writer-director. In fact the script I'm writing now I'm planning on filming it with a friend. I still have to finish writing it though, but i'm 90 pages into it so if all goes well I should be filming it eventually.

[Mad Dad]

Originally Posted by remake

I've told you a hundred times before, all the grammar errors and misspellings in your scripts are going to ruin any chances of you becoming a successful screenwriter. You need to go back and fix EVERYTHING. Re-read it all the time. Sometimes I'll catch a tiny mistake in my scripts that I've read over multiple times.

What makes you think he would follow your advice (or everyone elses advice, for that matter) when it's easier just to make lame excuses?
Single sentence forum posts are nonsensical, badly constructed, misspelling and grammatical error laden gibberish, in most cases. I can only imagine how painful it must be to actually read through an entire script.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

Oh, trust me I know. I've been looking at Craigslist and even made a few posts. Along with putting some stuff out there on Facebook. I just feel my biggest problem is my location. Nobody here is really interested in what I'm trying to do. Why I'm trying to get a job and save up to move else where so that I can connect with those who have the same passions as me. Biggest thing to do is make connections. And or so favors for people. So in the future you could go remember when I did that thing for you? Think you could help me with this one thing I'm trying to do?

If you really want to get into this field, if this is something you seriously want to do and commit to, this is best possible advice I can give:

Go to school for it.

Enroll in the closest accredited university with a film department and start from there: introductory courses, required classes and electives; theory, criticism, writing, production, etc. Get involved in student production organizations, film clubs and screening committees.

This is the ONE and ONLY way to genuinely learn your craft, hone your skills, receive construction criticism, acquire technical experience, and make the personal and professional connections which will actually get you somewhere. Going to school will get you the results dicking around on Facebook and Craigslist, uploading iPhone videos on YouTube won't.

[Show spoiler](Sure you'll probably be paying off student loans into middle age, but you gotta break eggs. )

Sincerely,

Bachelor of Arts recipient, Film

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

If you really want to get into this field, if this is something you seriously want to do and commit to, this is best possible advice I can give:

Go to school for it.

Enroll in the closest accredited university with a film department and start from there: introductory courses, required classes and electives; theory, criticism, writing, production, etc. Get involved in student production organizations, film clubs and screening committees.

This is the ONE and ONLY way to genuinely learn your craft, hone your skills, receive construction criticism, acquire technical experience, and make the personal and professional connections which will actually get you somewhere. Going to school will get you the results dicking around on Facebook and Craigslist, uploading iPhone videos on YouTube won't.

[Show spoiler](Sure you'll probably be paying off student loans into middle age, but you gotta break eggs. )

Sincerely,

Bachelor of Arts recipient, Film

I already looked into that with the small colleges around me. One was a tiny community college and saw nothing about film, only TV and radio production.

How far has that helped you? I'm not being a dick. I'm asking a sincere question.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

If you really want to get into this field, if this is something you seriously want to do and commit to, this is best possible advice I can give:

Go to school for it.

Enroll in the closest accredited university with a film department and start from there: introductory courses, required classes and electives; theory, criticism, writing, production, etc. Get involved in student production organizations, film clubs and screening committees.

This is the ONE and ONLY way to genuinely learn your craft, hone your skills, receive construction criticism, acquire technical experience, and make the personal and professional connections which will actually get you somewhere. Going to school will get you the results dicking around on Facebook and Craigslist, uploading iPhone videos on YouTube won't.

[Show spoiler](Sure you'll probably be paying off student loans into middle age, but you gotta break eggs. )

Sincerely,

Bachelor of Arts recipient, Film

This isn't bad advice but to suggest it's the "ONE and ONLY" way to learn craft and make connections is nonsense. I've made my living for 25 years writing and directing for theatre, film and TV and I left school with no qualifications to speak of. I've met hardly anyone who's been to Film School (though admittedly that's less a part of the culture in the UK). The ways into the industry are many and various. School is a useful way to hone one's skills whilst not necessarily having to worry about making a living wage but there's no substitute for actually making work.

Would-be writers are fortunate in that they only have to sell a screenplay, not themselves. The best way to learn writing is to read GOOD books, watch GOOD films and live a rich life.

Location is important to some extent but it shouldn't stop you sending screenplays out to agents. I'm not really convinced, Michael Bay Fan, by your justifications for not taking those first steps. Despite the work you've done, you sound unconfident of your abilities and fearful of rejection - completely understandable, by the way, as rejection is very much part of the business. But believe me, however bad something you've written might be, there will be much worse out there. You don't have to be the greatest writer that ever lived; write something that people want to read past page ten and you stand a good chance of getting interest.

But I'd heartily agree that basic grammar is essential - a screenplay full of errors won't get read past page two. Sort that out right now.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

I already looked into that with the small colleges around me. One was a tiny community college and saw nothing about film, only TV and radio production.

How far has that helped you? I'm not being a dick. I'm asking a sincere question.

You're not going to find anything on the community college level; those small fry are all job training and life enrichment. To find something real you'll need to look on the state level: there are 21 accredited film schools in Pennsylvania, with the University of Pennsylvania itself having one of the top programs in the country.

Besides an intro production course, my course work was mostly academic, since that's what I found interesting. I didn't go to college to get a job: it was purely an educational experience. I am comfortable and satisfied with my life so far.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by Cabby

I've been writing screenplays since I was 13 years old and I can tell that as I've gotten older it's improved vastly. Now when I read my screenplays written when I was younger they are horrible but my more recent one(s) the dialogue, characters, and overall narrative structure are improved. I don't think I'm that good yet but I'm still young and I'm still learning. I'm starting college next fall where I'll learn film and hopefully learn the art of film-making itself in terms of technical equipment, and directing as I'm an aspiring writer-director, rather than just one alone.

I just finished a screenplay about a month ago and it took me about six months to write but the research, outlining, and drafting took me about a good eight months prior so it's definitely an arduous task but if you're passionate and committed, it's doable and fun if you've got a good story and characters to work with.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep it up!

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Cabby

I've been writing screenplays since I was 13 years old and I can tell that as I've gotten older it's improved vastly. Now when I read my screenplays written when I was younger they are horrible but my more recent one(s) the dialogue, characters, and overall narrative structure are improved. I don't think I'm that good yet but I'm still young and I'm still learning. I'm starting college next fall where I'll learn film and hopefully learn the art of film-making itself in terms of technical equipment, and directing as I'm an aspiring writer-director, rather than just one alone.

I just finished a screenplay about a month ago and it took me about six months to write but the research, outlining, and drafting took me about a good eight months prior so it's definitely an arduous task but if you're passionate and committed, it's doable and fun if you've got a good story and characters to work with.

See, now you sound like a writer. I'd expect a good screenplay to take about that long to write and you acknowledge that it's arduous - I'm suspicious of anyone who finds it easy. You're focusing on one thing at a time and you have a clear and achievable game-plan for the future.

One thing I'd strongly recommend to all writers and directors, whatever path you take - do some acting, in some capacity, even if it's just amateur dramatics. It's vital you understand something of that process. Every good writer is a good actor on some level - you need to be able to speak your own dialogue and you need to keep track of the emotional journeys of your characters. Directors need to learn how to communicate with actors and understand the technical and emotional difficulties in the job.

Good luck.