Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 6 (1992-1993) / Chain of Command (1992)

[Indiana Jones]

You are right that their work on Season 2 was pretty but The X-Files has been airing in HD in Germany for awhile now and it looks pretty damn good, looks like they restrained themselves in regards to use of DNR.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

...The show is eventually going to be upgraded to HD, that is all but guaranteed....

What evidence is there for this?

I read this exactly the opposite way. If they aren't going to do it now, the odds are they aren't ever going to do it. I would phrase it that it's all but guaranteed they aren't going to do it—unless somehow our discussion here, and the numbers on the sales for the TNG sets, changes their minds.

There are thousands of movies and TV shows where the film is there—and so the possibility for a blu-ray exists—and it simply doesn't happen. And, as we all know, because DS9 was edited on videotape and would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, the costs are much, much greater than they are for most regular upgrades.

[yojoeski]

I've said for a while that I believed we'd see a blu release eventually but it will simply be a mix of elements where the film footage would be transferred to HD but the CGI would simply be upconverted and not rebuilt from the ground up. I do believe we'll see TAS on blu-ray sooner rather than later because it's already been converted and just simply needs to be pressed onto disc.

Consider this though with DS9. Star Trek 3 hits theaters in 2016. All these postings are saying is that the series has yet to be green lit, is it possible that CBS could still green light the remastering, but they're waiting until closer to the theatrical release of Trek 3 before they start making announcements or actually releasing them?

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Bolty

I’ve got nothing to do--home alone--so for the fun of it I imagined my theoretical “Best of DS9 Part I box set”

I speculate it would be an 8 disc set with 27 “arc episodes” and 5 stand alone Fan-favorite ‘voted on’ episodes.

Box One would contain highlights of seasons 1-4

My List……..

Episodes number/name/content

1. Emissary part 1--pilot
2. Emissary part 2-- pilot
19. Duet--cardassian war criminal……..my fan choice #1
20. Hands of the Prophets--intro Kai Winn, season 1 ender
21. Homecoming--Bajoran coup trilogy 1,season 2 opener
22. Circle--part 2
23. Siege--part 3
39. Blood Oath--re-intro Kang, Kor and Koloth
40. Maquis part 1--intro of the maquis movement
41. Maquis part 2--
43. Crossover--first “mirror” episode
46. Jem’ Hadar--beginning of the Founders arc, season 2 ender
47. Search part 1--looking for the Jem’Hadar, season 3 opener
48. Search part 2--
51. Second Skin--Cardassian believes kira is his daughter…..my fan choice #2
55. Defiant--Riker returns……..my fan choice #3
60. Heart of Stone--founders trick Odo into professing love for Kira….my fan choice #4
65. Improbable Cause--major precursor to Founder war part 1
67. The Die is Cast--part 2
66. Thru the Looking Glass--part 2 of “mirror” arc (filmed in-between previous two-parter)
72. Adversary--season 3 ender, sets up Founder infiltration of federation.
73. Way of the Warrior part 1--start of Klingon civil war, Worf intro, season 4 opener
74. Way of the Warrior part 2
76. The Visitor--”old Jake” seeks his lost father……….my fan choice #5
79. Starship Down--iconic battle with Jem’ Hadar
80. Little Green Men--classic ferengi comedy episode…..my fan favorite #6
81. Sword of Kahless--part of “original klingons” arc
83. Homefront--founders infiltrate earth part 1
84. Paradise Lost--part 2
86. Return to Grace--key Dukat/Kira episode…..my fan favorite #7
87. Sons of Mogh--farwell to Kurn…..my fan favorite #8
92. Shattered Mirror--”mirror arc” part 3
94. For the Cause--key Maquis episode
96. To the Death--strong Jem’ Hadar episode
98. Broken Link--Odo becomes Human, season 4 ender

So as you can see I didn’t trim my favorites to 5 yet, but there is my outline of a “Best of DS9 Box Set part I”

Part II would be the key/best episodes from seasons 5-7

Wife working overnight shift--so this was more fun than housework!!

Bolty: This is a great list. Nicely done. Looking forward to part two.

And then, if you're willing, the much more difficult challenge: distill (or slash) the two lists down to one set of c. 32 episodes for the whole show. That's perhaps the more likely scenario, imho, if they just do part of it.

[DasRetroKid]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

By the way, HTV-Illuminate is just finishing that show. Hmm... Uh-oh...

Oh sh!t... I didn't know they were the ones doing X-Files.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by DasRetroKid

Oh sh!t... I didn't know they were the ones doing X-Files.

I don't think there is much to worry about, they handled the TNG Season 2 live action shots very well, it was only sequences that involved CG that they DNRed to hell and The X-Files is pretty CG light so should be fine overall, just got to look at the German HDTV airings to see how good it looks and any BD release would be even better.

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by benbess

Bolty: This is a great list. Nicely done. Looking forward to part two.

And then, if you're willing, the much more difficult challenge: distill (or slash) the two lists down to one set of c. 32 episodes for the whole show. That's perhaps the more likely scenario, imho, if they just do part of it.

Well later I looked at seasons 5-7 and realized it would be near impossible to pick just 32 episodes out of the 78 from those seasons. Just the Dominion war would come to more than that and then there'd be no room for fan favorites, the remainder of the "mirror" episodes and anything to do with wrapping up the Bajoran/cardassian threads.

Probably the best (affordable) thing would be 3 releases of 24 episodes each. That would be 72 of the 176 episodes (40%) and you could do pretty much all the arcs complete and still include the best stand-alone episodes.

That's sounds way too risky a proposition for CBS and throw in the fact of how picky Trek fans are and you'd get all kinds of complaints such as.........

"I'm not buying anything that leaves out my favorite episode or ALL episodes."

I bet the most we'll ever get is the same two part episodes edited into one as we have seen from TNG...........

The Emissary pilot
Way of the Warrior
The Maquis
The Search
the finale'

and those would be very unsatisfying for a show as episodic as DS9 was. And too expensive.

I wish they'd float some ideas out there so the fans could get their voice heard.

There has got to be something in their playbook between..... "Let's remaster 176 episodes in 7 season sets." or "let's forgot the whole thing."

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

You are right that their work on Season 2 was pretty but The X-Files has been airing in HD in Germany for awhile now and it looks pretty damn good, looks like they restrained themselves in regards to use of DNR.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying The X-Files in HD too (and perhaps the phrase "half-assed" is unfair) but they have definitely cut corners now and again. True, they've often recreated VFX shots faithfully in HD, but many times they just upconvert the SD shots. Now, that could be because they have no choice, for instance, missing negative, or it could be for certain things they just don't have the budget or resources to do things properly.

But I agree, the live-action photography looks uniformly good. It did with TNG-R S2 too, for the most part. I was just trying to highlight the obvious quality difference between CBS-D and HTV's approach to VFX work.

Originally Posted by benbess

What evidence is there for this?

I read this exactly the opposite way. If they aren't going to do it now, the odds are they aren't ever going to do it. I would phrase it that it's all but guaranteed they aren't going to do it—unless somehow our discussion here, and the numbers on the sales for the TNG sets, changes their minds.

There are thousands of movies and TV shows where the film is there—and so the possibility for a blu-ray exists—and it simply doesn't happen. And, as we all know, because DS9 was edited on videotape and would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, the costs are much, much greater than they are for most regular upgrades.

The evidence is TOS-R and TNG-R, both now in HD alongside ENT! I think it's blindingly obvious: CBS clearly intends to convert their lucrative Star Trek TV library into HD in order to make it more appealing for syndication, streaming and digital download all over the world. Remember that they also didn't go directly into TNG-R after TOS-R finished. There was a three-year gap between them. And it was only that long because TNG-R was a different animal from TOS-R and they had to prove it was feasible. As we know, DS9-R would be an undertaking very much like TNG-R, but with the added costs of extensive CGI (either recreated or re-rendered) in the last few seasons.

I think it's also important to point out that TNG-R has been done at a breakneck pace and it's been exhausting I'm sure for the people working on it these last three years. That could be a very big factor too. A combination of burn out and "let's just wait and let the revenue from all potential distribution channels accumulate a bit more before we start again."

We may yet see a DS9-R S1 set ready by fall 2016 for the 50th anniversary. They could wait a year (or more) and still accomplish that. So let's not go too far in the other direction of complete cynicism after the tweet got everybody overly enthusiastic. We're starting to look bipolar.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Bolty

Well later I looked at seasons 5-7 and realized it would be near impossible to pick just 32 episodes out of the 78 from those seasons. Just the Dominion war would come to more than that and then there'd be no room for fan favorites, the remainder of the "mirror" episodes and anything to do with wrapping up the Bajoran/cardassian threads.

Probably the best (affordable) thing would be 3 releases of 24 episodes each. That would be 72 of the 176 episodes (40%) and you could do pretty much all the arcs complete and still include the best stand-alone episodes....

I wish they'd float some ideas out there so the fans could get their voice heard.

There has got to be something in their playbook between..... "Let's remaster 176 episodes in 7 season sets." or "let's forgot the whole thing."

Good points.

What if you were picking 72 for DS9? It would be interesting to see that list—one that gets all of the best of DS9, and makes a coherent package in narrative terms.

That might still fit onto two sets of 36 episodes each. Each blu-ray of the Little House sets, iirc, have about 6 episodes on them. And so if you have 6 discs in each set you could fit 36 episodes per set. I realize all this is unlikely in the extreme, but if you decide to noodle around and compile a list, I hope you'll share it....

[Deathbymonkeys]

I am fine with them just rescanning the film to make it look great and keeping the graphics the way they are. It's not what I want but I'd live with it. Maybe a few episodes (Way of the warrior, Trouble with tribbles, dominion war heavy stuff) they could redo the graphics on.

At least if that was the only option. I just want this show on bluray.

[mars396]

major bummer

I was really looking forward to Deep Space Nine and Voyager on Blu-ray

[mars396]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

I suppose I should like to pick up the DVDs gradually, season by season. I don't know where I'm going to put them though - those box sets are so damn big.

I keep all my Trek DVDs in zippered cases, one per show:

[benbess]

Originally Posted by mars396

major bummer

I was really looking forward to Deep Space Nine and Voyager on Blu-ray

Me too. I really love both of those shows. And I'm really tired of watching them in muddy SD.

I would prefer all of the seasons rebuilt for HD, but since that seems increasingly unlikely, I would definitely buy a best of set for both of them, whatever length or configuration CBS deems it can do—although the more episodes the better. And looking at lists of episodes, I feel that for both that there are a lot of important ones....

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Bolty

Someone at another forum reminded me that the re-masterings are multi media--Blu-ray, streaming, syndication ----and therefore it would be unlikely for them to create a best of set for Blu-ray when they wouldn't be able to sell DS9 in syndication and streaming with only 30-70 episodes.

Now I'm really bummed.

I did go thru seasons 5-7 and was able to trim the must-see episodes to exactly 36----9, 11 and 16 each from seasons 5,6 and 7.. So yeah, they could theoretically do two best of sets and it would include all the essential stuff.

It really saddens me, after just looking over the titles of all 176, to know just how much outstanding Trek will probably never get to Blu-ray..........

Bolty:

I would still like to see your list.

Think of it this way. Some people said the original Star Trek probably wouldn't work in syndication because there weren't enough episodes. But it turned out that even with 79 episodes TOS was the biggest success in syndication history. 70-some episodes turned out in fact to be quite a sweet spot.

And that struck me when you said that something like 70-some episodes were needed to pick up all the threads, arcs, and favorite stand-alone episodes of DS9.

Since the standard season set has had 26 episodes, what about three of those, for a total of 78? That's right at the magic mark of TOS. And so it could still work for HD syndication and streaming.

In fact, it might even work better. Like you, I agree that the first two seasons of DS9 were the weakest. Most fans feel that way. Those seasons are one reason even some Trek fans have had trouble getting into the show. But with the most essential and best episodes rescued from those, and with the same done with the subsequent seasons (with an increasing number on the list for each of the subsequent seasons) it could become a more compelling viewing experience.

As an epic 78-episode Star Trek "miniseries," DS9 would likely find new fans. And the old fans would be pleased to finally have the best of the show in HD.

From the point of view of CBS, it might make more economic sense too. I don't know what the figures are, but if, just for instance, it costs something like c. $5 million to completely rebuild a season of Star Trek, then all 7 seasons of DS9, including the dud episodes, might be c. $35 million. That's huge for a home video project, and would take maybe four years. But a best of DS9 with three packages of 26 episodes would be a more reasonable amount of money, and might take only a couple of years.

Anyway, all of that was long wind-up to request to see your list for the whole show.

We all admit that something like this is very unlikely to happen, but since you've already written the list, I hope you'll share it.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by mars396

major bummer

I was really looking forward to Deep Space Nine and Voyager on Blu-ray

As Maxwell Everett said it's still likely to happen its just there might be a delay, we have waiting this long a little longer isn't going to hurt IMO.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

As Maxwell Everett said it's still likely to happen its just there might be a delay, we have waiting this long a little longer isn't going to hurt IMO.

Yeah. But the reality is that physical media is in a slow decline. A whole company, Twilight Time, has even named itself based on the idea that we are in a twilight period.

I feel that if they aren't going to strike now, keeping up the momentum from the blu-ray releases of TNG, then it might become less likely with each passing year....

They have an amazing Star Trek rebuilding and remastering team now that they've built up. They are at the top of their game, and know exactly what they are doing. They've learned a lot in doing 6-seasons of TNG, and are an efficient and well-oiled machine. If CBS doesn't have that kind of work for them, this "dream team" might slowly evaporate. I mean, literally, some could take other jobs, be laid off, retire, or whatever. It would be a challenge, imho, to reassemble such a team a few years down the road.

Again, I think they should strike while the iron is still hot.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by benbess

Bolty:

I would still like to see your list.

Think of it this way. People said the original Star Trek probably wouldn't work in syndication because there weren't enough episodes. But it turned out that even with 79 episodes TOS was the biggest success in syndication history. 70-some episodes turnout out in fact to be quite a sweet spot.

And that struck me when you said that something like 70-some episodes were needed to pick up all the threads, arcs, and favorite stand-alone episodes of DS9.

Since the standard season set has had 26 episodes, what about 3 of those, for a total of 78? That's right at the magic mark of TOS. And so it could still work for HD syndication and streaming.

In fact, it might even work better. Like you, I agree that the first two seasons of DS9 were the weakest. Most fans feel that way. Those seasons are one reason even some Trek fans have had trouble getting into the show. But with the most essential and best episodes rescued from those, and with the same done with the subsequent seasons (with an increasing number on the list for each of the subsequent seasons) it could become a more compelling viewing experience.

As a 78-episode Star Trek "miniseries," DS9 would likely find new fans. And the old fans would be pleased to finally have the best of the show in HD.

From the point of view of CBS, it might make more economic sense too. Not sure what the figures are, but if it costs something like $5 million to completely rebuild a season of Star Trek, then all 7 seasons of DS9, including the dud episodes, might be c. $35 million, which is huge for a home video project, and would take maybe five years. But a best of with three packages of 26 episodes would be a more reasonable amount of money, and might take only a couple of years.

Anyway, all of that was long wind-up to request to see your list for the whole show.

We all admit that something like this is very unlikely to happen, but since you've already written the list, I hope you'll share it.

We think alike--I too was thinking if TOS could get by with 79 episodes when they said it wasn't enough for syndication, why couldn't DS9 do 3 26 episode box sets equaling 78 episodes total and use those for a syndication/streaming package in HD?


Plus the additional 6 episodes would allow for some really good stand alone episodes to be added.

I guess that's too "outside the box" LOL

Your idea makes too damn much sense to ever happen!

Here is my list part 2, 36 + a few of my favorites

99. Apocalypse Rising--season 5 opener Klingon/Dominion
100. The Ship--Dominion face-off
102. Nor the Battle to the Strong--good rare Jake episode involving Klingons
104. Trials and Tribbleations--'Nuff said
111. For the Uniform--Maquis arc involving Eddington.
112. In Pugatory's Shadow--part 1 of classic Garak/DominionWorf prison story
113. By Inferno's Light--part 2 outstanding conclusion with Cardassia switching sides among many other themes.
119. Soldiers of the Empire--strong Worf/Martok Klingon episode
120. Children of Time--awesome Odo/alternate reality episode--my fan favorite choice******
121. Blaze of glory--Maquis/Eddington wrap up
122. Empok Nor--outstanding O'Brien/Garak episode--my fan favorite choice***********
124. Call to Arms--season 5 ender and official Dominion War start

125. Time to stand--season 6 opener DS9 under Dominion occupation & Sisko on secret mission
126. Rocks and Shoals-- conclusion to Sisko's mission, great microcosm of war story
128. Behind the Lines--the 'partisan' resistance on occupied DS9 begins in earnest
129. Favor the Bold--Sisko decides to retake DS9 as a symbolic victory in a war going badly
130. Sacrifice of Angels--part 2--Feds retake DS9 with much loss of life
131. You Are Cordially Invited--Worf/Dax wedding--My fan favorite choice
137. Far beyond the Stars--Fantastic period piece/alternate reality episode--my fan favorite******
138. One Little Ship--"Ant-Man" sized crew takes on Jem'Hadar
142. Inquisition--first "Section 31" episode
143. In the Pale Moonlight--Sisko makes morally questionable decision to save the federation, a great Garak episode (is there any other kind?)
146. Valiant--nice Jake/Nog episode with young crew fighting Dominion
150. Tears of the Prophets--farewell to Jadzia--season 6 ender

151. Image in the sand--season 7 opener parts--Sisko pursues his destiny
152. Shadows & Symbols--part 2 of sisko origin
157. Once More Into the Breach--wrap-up to the Kor "ancient warriors" arc featuring Dominion
158. Siege of AR-558--classic war is hell episode, very well done
162. Emperer's New Cloak--final "mirror" episode
166. Inter Arma Enim silent Leges--classic political treachery episode--my fan favorite*********

167-176 are the ten episode wrap to the war and the series and I don't think you can leave any out.

The fact they did basically a ten episode continued arc to finish the series is incredibly ahead of it's time looking back. It's so common now, for especially cable series, to have a 10-12 episode season with a long continuous arc that I forgot DS9 seemed to do it real early (if not first)

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by benbess

Yeah. But the reality is that physical media is in a slow decline. A whole company, Twilight Time, has even named itself based on the idea that we are in a twilight period.

Physical Media was never really the driving force behind the TNG-R work though was it? its having the show future proofed for future broadcast that they can sell all over the world and I just don't see them stopping with TNG, it might take time but all the Trek shows will end up in HD as the demand for HD content will always be there and there will come a point when SD upscales just won't be acceptable so it will either be loose all future profit that DS9 and VOY could earn them or spend the money and have them keep on making money for decades to come.

Will DS9 or VOY appear on BD? I really don't know but will they eventually get remastered in HD? you can count on it.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

Physical Media was never really the driving force behind the TNG-R work though was it? its having the show future proofed for future broadcast that hey can sell all over the world and I just don't see them stopping with TNG, it might take time but all the Trek shows will end up in HD as the demand for HD content will always be there and there will come a point when SD upscales just won't be acceptable so it will either let Trek die or spend the money and have it keep on making them money for many years to come.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Figures aren't available, but I think that the blu-rays of The Next Generation have been a significant source of revenue for CBS.

Over time, streaming and syndication also provides nice revenue.

Both are an essential part of the mix at this point, imho.

A successful blu-ray release provides a burst of revenue right away....

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

....Will DS9 or VOY appear on BD? I really don't know but will they eventually get remastered in HD? you can count on it.

The whole point of the post by that insider is that you can't count on it.