Scanners (1981)

[KowalskiVideo]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

about the Subkultur Release:

its probably not important for a lot of people but there are only German subs on that one. no english SDH subs. (yes some people out there do need these, either for hearing problems or to help with the english language..i do for example)

there is a lack of english subs for the bonus features / audicommentary as well.

and not to forget the Release is Region B locked.

You're right about the lack of English SDH Subtitles but the Subkultur release is Region Free (ABC) and there is no 50i content on the disc, so it plays fine on any Region A player.

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Whilst the image has certainly been darkened, this particular issue looks like DNR to me.

[Show spoiler]

Note how flakes of the skull fragment still remain, almost like the auto clean has failed to remove it all. If this was just an issue of the image being darker, then surely the whole thing would be harder to see in equal measure? You can even see a digital looking smear left behind where the rest of the skull fragment used to be.

[schlock]

Originally Posted by tama

One more thing I want to add then I'm done. Criterion did nothing wrong and did not drop the ball with this release. That's a talking fade that has to stop. They're presenting Scanners in the manner that the Director has intended. It was his wish and call for the color timing, not Criterions.

They did they professional thing and respected his wishes. If they had overruled Cronenberg then for future titles why would any other Director or Cinematographer want to work with Criterion knowing their desires wishes and judgements would or could possibly be overruled?

I doubt Cronenberg spent more than a minute if that, possibly on the phone, to advise his wishes for the transfer. I can't see him in the lab overseeing the timing of a film he seems to have completely put behind him. He probably just said, "make it look modern" or some flippant comment. Criterion is the party that actively approaches every director, which is admirable, but in some cases can lead to what we have here. Criterion's batting average is still excellent overall.

[kidglov3s]

I'd like to think we can allow for the acknowledgement that

1. Criterion generally does good work
2. On the whole this Scanners disc appears to be at least acceptable
3. There is undoubtedly detail erased by DNR in that image.

[HansEpp]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

..., I looked at the screencaptures that were posted yesterday -- and no, they do not confirm egregious use of DNR -- and it is pretty easy to see that various splashes of blood have been darkened out in the bottom left corner of the frame on this German release. Some food for thought there.

On the German release?
Look again!

And I did not mention the word DNR anywhere, but I recognize a wrongly applied auto-frame-rapair when I see it. Notice the edges of the skull pieces are eaten away by a bad attempt of film-dirt-removing on the Criterion. They are completely intact on the Subkultur release.

Here is a visual help for the untrained eye, and it isn't just in the bottom left corner:





I aligned the Criterion screenshot to match the Subkultur, no more changes where applied (except for the yellow labeling of course ).

[EddieLarkin]

The piece of skull that is in front of his shirt just below the collar, that is now entirely gone on the Criterion, demonstrates well this has nothing to do with the image being darker.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

The piece of skull that is in front of his shirt just below the collar, that is now entirely gone on the Criterion, demonstrates well this has nothing to do with the image being darker.

Yep, that is definitely DNR just like we have seen in many Universal and Fox titles. The Criterion image also appears to be too bright as well.

[simonjamesconstable]

I urge people who are unhappy with the transfer to actually e-mail Criterion and tell them so, tell them what your issues are, with the hope of it actually resulting in them admitting something went wrong - mulvaney@criterion.com

It doesn't appear to just be a case of revisionism, because the image on the whole has an 'off' look about it, without even comparing it to any other release. The blacks are blue, the whites are subdued, low contrast/gamma/exposure whatever the term, possible DNR which is very un-Criterion.

Let's try and be constructive instead of just moaning at each other on a forum.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by HansEpp

On the German release?

And I did not mention the word DNR anywhere, but I recognize a wrongly applied auto-frame-rapair when I see it. Notice the edges of the skull pieces are eaten away by a bad attempt of film-dirt-removing on the Criterion. They are completely intact on the Subkultur release.

Yes, on the German release -- there are splashes of blood on the bottom left end of the frame that are not visible because brightness levels have been tweaked. I need to see the disc to tell if something else might have been done as well. As I said earlier, someone was guessing how the film should look.

You may not have mentioned DNR, but someone else did. If DNR was used as speculated, it would have also taken out the grain and destabilized the image. What appears to have been used on the Criterion release is a repair application -- from what I gather similar to the one that caused a few snowflakes to be affected on Arrow's release of Runaway Train.

Grain/noise management is fine. And so is dirt removal. And so are repair applications. There are countless fantastic looking releases, with strong organic qualities, that have this type of work done on them.

On the other hand, the encoding can also underexpose/overexpose some details, or make one release look sharper, misleading people to believe that there is more/less grain on a release, though additional grain adjustments were not performed.

At the end of the day I can only repeat what I said earlier: There is nothing wild about the Criterion release. It has a strong organic appearance. As confirmed by Criterion, the color scheme is as Cronenberg wants it.

People speculating that it is a botched release appear to be confused what the term actually implies -- it would have been such a release if Criterion intended one thing, but delivered something completely different. Clearly, this isn't the case.

The reality is this: It is the one and only home video release of Scanners which uses a transfer supervised by the director.

Pro-B

[schlock]

"Supervised" by the director? Or did he just sign off and give his approval? Two totally different things.

[simonjamesconstable]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

The reality is this: It is the one and only home video release of Scanners which uses a transfer supervised by the director

But we're not necessarily seeing that supervised transfer on the finished disc, there have been many instances of a disc being released with problems that weren't present even during QC. Who's to say Cronenberg didn't sign off on the transfer, and then someone at Criterion accidentally clicked on something that altered the image, and didn't even realise?

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by schlock

"Supervised" by the director? Or did he just sign off and give his approval? Two totally different things.

The press materials that were sent by Criterion noted "supervised".

Originally Posted by simonjamesconstable

But we're not necessarily seeing that supervised transfer on the finished disc, there have been many instances of a disc being released with problems that weren't present even during QC. Who's to say Cronenberg didn't sign off on the transfer, and then someone at Criterion accidentally clicked on something that altered the image, and didn't even realise?

What we do know is that you -- as well as the rest of the people currently speculating in this thread -- have not seen the disc at all. I have, and I have already supplied all the information one would need to conclude whether what you suggest is at all logical.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Pro-B

[HansEpp]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Yes, on the German release -- there are splashes of blood on the bottom left end of the frame that are not visible because brightness levels have been tweaked.

We are talking about the Subkultur release, right? Please show me, cause I do not see what you are refering to.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

lets not forget that most people only own a small LCD / Plasma from some discounter thats probably far from being calibrated as well.

i highly doubt that most people will notice stuff that is being talked about in this thread at all

Worst troll ever.

[simonjamesconstable]

I once bought a CD, and it sounded completely 'off', with all of the sound compressed and lifeless. I compared it to the version on Spotify and it was completely different, so I e-mailed the record label and they admitted there had been a mastering error, and sent me a corrected disc.

Please tell me why this couldn't be the exact same case with a Criterion Blu-ray.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by simonjamesconstable

but we're not necessarily seeing that supervised transfer on the finished disc, there have been many instances of a disc being released with problems that weren't present even during qc. Who's to say cronenberg didn't sign off on the transfer, and then someone at criterion accidentally clicked on something that altered the image, and didn't even realise?

Oh my....

[Member-167298]

Why go through the time and expense of removing those small fragments that are only seen if someone pauses the movie or is really looking closely for them?

Really not as excited for this Criterion release as I used to be.

[bgart13]

Originally Posted by HansEpp

On the German release?
Look again!

And I did not mention the word DNR anywhere, but I recognize a wrongly applied auto-frame-rapair when I see it. Notice the edges of the skull pieces are eaten away by a bad attempt of film-dirt-removing on the Criterion. They are completely intact on the Subkultur release.

Here is a visual help for the untrained eye, and it isn't just in the bottom left corner:





I aligned the Criterion screenshot to match the Subkultur, no more changes where applied (except for the yellow labeling of course ).

This I find more alarming than the color changes.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by PrestonXI

Why go through the time and expense of removing those small fragments that are only seen if someone pauses the movie or is really looking closely for them?

Really not as excited for this Criterion release as I used to be.

I hope those skull fragments were all that stood between Cronenberg and a love for this film, that barrier now torn down like the Berlin Wall with this new presentation.

[simonjamesconstable]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Oh my....

They're only human...