Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[MCT]

When left to his own devices we get soulless endeavors like the Pukequel trilogy. If he's providing input that's fine, I just hope JJ and co. do the exact opposite of everything he suggests, that's how we'll get a decent set of movies this time around.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

He has plenty in the positives column for his writing as well as the negatives.

True enough but the positives are more than thirty years old.

All things considered, 'use him as an idea man but don't let write anything' isn't terrible advice.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

...you are joyous that Lucas is no longer involved...

I'm delighted that he is no longer in charge.

He's not writing the new film. He's not directing the new film.

He doesn't have script approval or veto power.

He no longer decides what will or will not be released on BD.

These are all Good Things®

[simonynwa]

Kurtz was not some mythical saviour of Ep IV and V (and had nothing to do with THX1138 I don't think). Neither is Lucas some genius writer. He wrote 4 excellent films and the credit for that shouldn't be taken away from him and if you are going to beat him over the head with the prequels, its only fair to acknowledge his good stuff too.

Yes its thirty years old, but I think age has less to do with it and the budget constraints, having to think creatively, quickly and on his feet throughout was more a factor. Even Empire was a risk for him at the time.

I still maintain that editing was a massive factor and the pace and propulsion of Ep IV and V sets them apart too. A more ruthless edit and fine tuning of the first two prequels especially could have made them much better.

[StingingVelvet]

Lucas did not write the screenplay for Empire Strikes Back or Raiders. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. He did write Star Wars, and to be blunt I don't think the writing is the reason that movie is adored. Empire is a ten times better screenplay (and movie). I couldn't care less about American Graffiti, not my kind of film and haven't seen it in 20 years.

And whatever the case may be of 30-40 year old movies the fact is he wrote, directed, cast and whatever else the prequels, and all three movies had serious problems in writing, directing, casting and whatever else. I don't have confidence in him anymore whatsoever as someone in control.

An idea man, though? Heck yeah, glad he's around to lend some ideas.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

Yes its thirty years old, but I think age has less to do with it and the budget constraints, having to think creatively, quickly and on his feet throughout was more a factor. Even Empire was a risk for him at the time.

I don't think age has very much to do with it at all. I thought the train started coming off the tracks with Jedi and that was only...what?...six years after Star Wars?

He wrote two really good scripts thirty+ years ago but screenwriting is clearly not his wheelhouse. Stories and story ideas are his strengths. The nitty-gritty of actually telling those stories? Not so much.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What about Raiders?


Must have sucked because of no Kurtz involvement.

Spielberg is what made that great.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Spielberg is what made that great.

Spielberg did what he was assigned. That was the agreement. Steven has said they are George's stories. He helped a lot, but dismissing Lucas as the driving force is just more historical revisionism.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by octagon

I'm delighted that he is no longer in charge.

He's not writing the new film. He's not directing the new film.

Except he wrote the original outline and possibly the first drafts.

He doesn't have script approval or veto power.

See above.

He no longer decides what will or will not be released on BD.

It's been two years. If Disney was so hell bent on releasing the unaltered trilogy, wouldn't you think there would be some concrete evidence that they intend to? There's not, and it's almost a certainty that Lucas wrote into the deal that they had to release his final versions of the existing six films on any home video format.

These are all Good Things®

"Give into your anger..."

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Lucas did not write the screenplay for Empire Strikes Back or Raiders. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. He did write Star Wars, and to be blunt I don't think the writing is the reason that movie is adored. Empire is a ten times better screenplay (and movie). I couldn't care less about American Graffiti, not my kind of film and haven't seen it in 20 years.

And whatever the case may be of 30-40 year old movies the fact is he wrote, directed, cast and whatever else the prequels, and all three movies had serious problems in writing, directing, casting and whatever else. I don't have confidence in him anymore whatsoever as someone in control.

An idea man, though? Heck yeah, glad he's around to lend some ideas.

Lucas has written the many drafts of every Star Wars film and worked with other writers to complete the scripts to his liking, namely Kasdan and Hales. A lot of Brackett's work on Empire was not used in the final film. These are concrete facts. Stop with the revisionist non-sense.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Lucas has written the many drafts of every Star Wars film and worked with other writers to complete the scripts to his liking, namely Kasdan and Hales. A lot of Brackett's work on Empire was not used in the final film. These are concrete facts. Stop with the revisionist non-sense.

The only revisionism comes from Lucas. That is the only fact.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Spielberg did what he was assigned. That was the agreement. Steven has said they are George's stories. He helped a lot, but dismissing Lucas as the driving force is just more historical revisionism.

Spielberg had everything to do with what we see on screen. He was at the height of his magic. I just hope Lucas has little involvement with the new films. I wish he were directing this new feature instead of Abrams.

[aiman04]

Indiana Jones is basically Han Solo. The scene where Solo confidently chases the storm troopers into a room full of more storm troopers is pure Indy. That was written and directed by George Lucas. I absolutely agree Raiders wouldn't be the same without Steven Spielberg, but people are ridiculously under-appreciating Lucas in everything.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Except he wrote the original outline and possibly the first drafts.

Right. He wrote a treatment. That he sold to Disney (along with everything else).

And now JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan are turning that treatment into a screenplay. Or at least that's the conventional wisdom. There's no way to know how closely or even whether they're following that original treatment.

What we do know for sure is that Lucas is not writing the script for the new movie. You might not look at that as good news but I definitely do. Not because I hate Lucas but because I don't think he's a very good screenwriter.

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

See above.

See what? Can you point to any source anywhere that claims Lucas has any kind of veto power when it comes to the new film or that he has to approve the new script?

This is from a Business Week article from March of last year.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-for-star-wars

Iger understood Lucas’s concerns. “George said to me once that when he dies, it’s going to say ‘Star Wars creator George Lucas,’ ” he says. Still, Iger wanted to make sure that Lucas, who was used to controlling every aspect of Star Wars, from set design to lunchboxes, understood that Disney, not Lucasfilm, would have final say over any future movies. “We needed to have an understanding that if we acquire the company, despite tons of collegial conversations and collaboration, at the end of the day, we have to be the ones who sign off on whatever the plans are,” says Alan Horn, chairman of Walt Disney Studios.

And this is from earlier this year...

http://news.moviefone.com/2014/04/22...s-episode-vii/

"George is a consultant," Horn told the news outlet. "The understanding is when he sold the company -- and he did sell the company to the Walt Disney Company -- so he's very aware of that. So we now are the primary drivers behind this property. But he is a very valued person. He's the father of all this. Kathy interacts with him, back and forth I think."

I gotta be honest, I'm not getting any serious 'George has script approval' vibes from any of that.

I suppose one could try to argue that Disney is pretty hands off so Kathleen Kennedy would get to make a lot of final decisions and she might run those past George but even that's a stretch. To get from there to 'George has veto power' one has to marginalize JJ and turn Kathleen Kennedy into a sock puppet.

And for what? To maintain the illusion that George is still in charge?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Lucas has written the many drafts of every Star Wars film and worked with other writers to complete the scripts to his liking, namely Kasdan and Hales. A lot of Brackett's work on Empire was not used in the final film. These are concrete facts. Stop with the revisionist non-sense.

I know who has screenwriting credit, sorry. I know Lucas is a good idea man, and then actual writers come in and fix up the plot and dialog.

[jpthomas27]

I must have stumbled into the wrong thread.... I thought the title was Star Wars: Episode VII?

Seems to be very little discussion on that topic around here!!

It really sucks too, because I'm sure there are some actual posts about Episode VII somewhere in here, and I'm sure there are many like myself that would actually like to be able to find them but can't because they are buried deep within all the crying and whining about the past!!!!!

C'mon people take your crap outside!!! There are plenty of threads out there where all the bi***ing and moaning are actually on topic.... this thread is NOT ONE OF THEM!!

[Forever Knight]

Anyone read any SW comics?

I've been told to check out Dark Empire and the Tharn (?) Trilogy.

[JavaJulien]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

Anyone read any SW comics?

I've been told to check out Dark Empire and the Tharn (?) Trilogy.

I really want to read Son of Dathomir. I'm sad that it never got to get adapted into the Clone Wars' final season.

[stvn1974]

If I roll my eyes whenever a character opens their mouth then I will know Lucas worked on the new film.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I know who has screenwriting credit, sorry. I know Lucas is a good idea man, and then actual writers come in and fix up the plot and dialog.

Lucas has the creativity, just doesn't always know how to shape it. JJ on the other hand doesn't have that creativity. He can see what others like Lucas have done and imitate it but he can't actually create anything like Lucas did. But that will probably benefit things for this film as fans want it to be like the old films - practical effects, old cast, etc - so JJ can imitate away and make everyone happy. I get the feeling though once the later films start coming out people will look back at Episode VII and realise just what an average film it is, better than the prequels but still a wasted opportunity.

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Lucas did not write the screenplay for Empire Strikes Back or Raiders. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. He did write Star Wars, and to be blunt I don't think the writing is the reason that movie is adored. Empire is a ten times better screenplay (and movie). I couldn't care less about American Graffiti, not my kind of film and haven't seen it in 20 years.

And whatever the case may be of 30-40 year old movies the fact is he wrote, directed, cast and whatever else the prequels, and all three movies had serious problems in writing, directing, casting and whatever else. I don't have confidence in him anymore whatsoever as someone in control.

An idea man, though? Heck yeah, glad he's around to lend some ideas.

The four I was referring to were THX1138, American Graffiti, Star Wars and Empire, though obviously Kasdan was involved in the last.

I completely agree that the prequels had serious script problems, as did Jedi.