Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.) - Page 4 - Blu-ray Forum

Brian81 · 09-30-2014, 02:29 AM

If the disc is bronzing, it will fail. It may take years, but it'll happen. At least the rot can be identified by visual inspection...makes this somewhat easier.

GIR · 09-30-2014, 02:32 AM

I just checked my copy of Walkabout and it is very much a horrid shade of brown however it seems to play fine and without any problems on my HTPC... oh wait it's playing the ISO from the NAS. Sorry guys

Brent L. · 09-30-2014, 02:33 AM

Thank God it seems to just be from late 2009 to mid 2010. Just imagine if this was something that started to affecting their entire BD collection. The damage would be incredible, and I'd really hate it for them.

Like someone said earlier though, I just hope a year from now we aren't posting in this thread about titles from late 2010 to mid 2011.

jscoggins · 09-30-2014, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIR

I just checked my copy of Walkabout and it is very much a horrid shade of brown however it seems to play fine and without any problems on my HTPC... oh wait it's playing the ISO from the NAS. Sorry guys

So is your BD unplayable or what?

neo_reloaded · 09-30-2014, 02:44 AM

This wouldn't be the first time a large number of bad discs came from a single publisher:

1) Many early Lionsgate titles have failed. BDs that once worked now mysteriously don't load at all (with no signs of any damage or chemical change visible on the disc). Examples include Basic Instinct, American Psycho, Lord of War, Terminator 2 (original BD release, not the Skynet one), Devil's Rejects, etc. Not all copies, but enough that threads have popped up here and at avsforum and similar places complaining about it.

2) Many copies of the first pressing of The Prestige (and I believe a second title from that period, but I can't remember which) developed weird white splotches. Again, this was something that occurred over time - but the effect was unmistakable once it did occur. It was traced back to a bad batch of the protective coating applied to BDs, and Disney sent replacement discs. There have been no new cases of this phenomenon.

3) Universal BDs. Starting from when Universal finally started releasing Blu-rays, and extending through at least a couple years after that, there was an oddly high number of bad discs or bad batches released. Really any Universal title was susceptible, and the symptom would be a hard freeze at one or more timestamps during the film. This was, thankfully, not a huge deal as there was no chemical reaction or time-dependent process that had to unfold - a disc was either bad (and would freeze at that spot every time) or good (played through every time). If you got a bad disc, you simply returned it until you got a good one, and you'd feel confident that that disc would continue to work indefinitely.

This Criterion issue seems like a mix of cases 1) and 2). Span of titles over a timespan, not one specific title, but a clear visible signifier of the chemical change causing the problem.

Partyslammer · 09-30-2014, 02:44 AM

This is a list of all Criterion BD releases sorted by release date that cover the release dates spanning the first and last (so far) titles that have shown signs of so-called laser-rot. I would suggest that anyone that has any title on this list check their discs for similar physical disc "bronzing" and playback issues. Discs already noted to have issues (updated 10/2/14) are starred with an asterisk (*):

*Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

By Brakhage: An Anthology, Volumes One and Two (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

*Walkabout (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 18, 2010

*M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010

*Ride with the Devil (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 27, 2010

Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Summer Hours (L'heure d'été / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo (Yôjinbô / 用心棒 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Sanjuro (Tsubaki Sanjûrô / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo / Sanjuro (用心棒 / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

*Bigger Than Life (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Lola Montès (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Revanche (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

*Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010

Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010

8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010

A Christmas Tale (Un conte de Noël / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

Gimme Shelter (The Rolling Stones / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

*Gomorrah (The Criterion Collection / Gomorra) Criterion Nov 24, 2009

*Howards End (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

*Monsoon Wedding (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Oct 20, 2009

The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

*Pierrot le fou (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

*Monterey Pop (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Kagemusha (影武者 / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Aug 18, 2009

Playtime (Play Time / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Aug 18, 2009

Repulsion (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jul 28, 2009

For All Mankind (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jul 14, 2009

Last Year at Marienbad (L'Année dernière à Marienbad / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jun 23, 2009

*The Seventh Seal (Det sjunde inseglet / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jun 16, 2009

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 05, 2009

In the Realm of the Senses (Ai no corrida / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 28, 2009

The Wages of Fear (Le salaire de la peur / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 21, 2009

As it's already been mention, I'm sure some sort of commonality, most likely with a single pressing plant, perhaps even with certain pressing machinery, glues/chemicals or processes that were instituted and perhaps later changed in mid/late 2010 will wind up being the culprit. If this issue starts showing up in newer Criterion releases moving forward, they have a very serious PR problem even if they offer replacement discs.

Although such wide ranging "laser rot" issues have been previously rare in cd/dvd/ld production runs, it has happened, most notably near the end of the Laserdisc format in the early 90's when several large production runs of certain Sony/TriStar LD titles (Starship Troopers and Contact to name two) were found to rot and become unplayable in under a year's time due to likely bad laminating which caused oxidation in the data layer.

jscoggins · 09-30-2014, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

This is a list of all Criterion BD releases sorted by release date that cover the release dates spanning the first and last (so far) titles that have shown signs of so-called laser-rot. I would suggest that anyone that has any title on this list check their discs for similar physical disc "bronzing" and playback issues. Discs already noted to have issues are starred with an asterisk (*):

[Show spoiler]

Thanks! Great resource.

I'll add a link to your post in the OP.

Brent L. · 09-30-2014, 02:48 AM

My Rise of the Planet of the Apes went bad as well. I had the original release of it and kept it for years before finally watching it so I could go see the sequel earlier this year and it also wouldn't load in any of my players, just like these. It doesn't have the bronzing, but instead it just has weird looking "waves" all over the bottom of it.

neo_reloaded · 09-30-2014, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

This is a list of all Criterion BD releases sorted by release date that cover the release dates spanning the first and last (so far) titles that have shown signs of so-called laser-rot. I would suggest that anyone that has any title on this list check their discs for similar physical disc "bronzing" and playback issues. Discs already noted to have issues are starred with an asterisk (*):

Someone said 8 1/2 was bronzed, and another said In The Realm Of Senses, which I believe pre-dates any title in your list.

GasmaskAvenger · 09-30-2014, 02:50 AM

At least the Criterion blu-rays I own are not on that list.

jscoggins · 09-30-2014, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Someone said 8 1/2 was bronzed, and another said In The Realm Of Senses, which I believe pre-dates any title in your list.

Any further confirmation of these?

neo_reloaded · 09-30-2014, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Any further confirmation of these?

Here's the post I was referring to: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=47

PowellPressburger · 09-30-2014, 02:55 AM

My copies of 8 1/2, In the Realm of the Senses, Stagecoach, Days of Heaven, Paris, Texas and OOP tiltes like Third Man, Le Cercle Rouge, Army of Shadows, Last Yr A.M. Leon Morin and Pierrot Le Fou all look fine.

in the realm of the senses / Paris, Texas, Stagecoach were more recent purchase so possibly a new pressings?

I checked other older discs from WB and they looked fine.

My copy of Walkabout didn't u can see compared to ITRotS

image.jpg

joie · 09-30-2014, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Any further confirmation of these?

Mine (8 1/2) is bronzed and freezes.

georgec · 09-30-2014, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

*Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

*M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010

Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

*Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010

Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010

8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010

Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

These are the ones I own, some of which are actually still sealed. Ugh, I don't know if I should open them.

pro-bassoonist · 09-30-2014, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Any further confirmation of these?

Let's get something very clear here: Discoloration does not equate disc rot.

And going by your links above, how exactly are you determining that someone reporting that a disc isn't playable in a player isn't a player issue?

Pro-B

Brian81 · 09-30-2014, 02:58 AM

Partyslammer: Someone in this very thread posted a picture of a bronzed "In The Realm of the Senses"...

BTW....keeping a listing of matrix numbers of affected discs might help ...

Brian81 · 09-30-2014, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Let's get something very clear here: Discoloration does not equate disc rot.

And going by your links above, how exactly are you determining that someone reporting that a disc isn't playable in a player isn't a player issue?

Pro-B

If it's bronzing it's rotting. It's visible oxidation of the aluminum reflective layer. Just because the disc works doesn't mean it's unaffected.

jscoggins · 09-30-2014, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Let's get something very clear here: Discoloration does not equate disc rot.

And going by your links above, how exactly are you determining that someone reporting that a disc isn't playable in a player isn't a player issue?

Pro-B

People have tested the discs in multiple players, and different people with the same movies are having problems.

Brent L. · 09-30-2014, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgec

These are the ones I own, some of which are actually still sealed. Ugh, I don't know if I should open them.

I'd go ahead and open them up and see. If they do a replacement program you wont be able to do anything about it unless you open them to check on their condition.

Unless you want to try to return them somewhere I mean.

I'd open them. I'm also interested in what they look like to be honest.

09-30-2014, 02:44 AM	#66
Partyslammer Power Member Member since:Dec 2011 4K collection:61 Blu-ray collection:1297 DVD collection:9	This is a list of all Criterion BD releases sorted by release date that cover the release dates spanning the first and last (so far) titles that have shown signs of so-called laser-rot. I would suggest that anyone that has *any* title on this list check their discs for similar physical disc "bronzing" and playback issues. Discs already noted to have issues (updated 10/2/14) are starred with an asterisk (): Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010 By Brakhage: An Anthology, Volumes One and Two (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010 Walkabout (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 18, 2010 M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010 Ride with the Devil (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 27, 2010 Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010 Summer Hours (L'heure d'été / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010 Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Yojimbo (Yôjinbô / 用心棒 \| The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Sanjuro (Tsubaki Sanjûrô / 椿三十郎 \| The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Yojimbo / Sanjuro (用心棒 / 椿三十郎 \| The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Bigger Than Life (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Lola Montès (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 Revanche (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010 Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010 8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010 A Christmas Tale (Un conte de Noël / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009 Gimme Shelter (The Rolling Stones / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009 Gomorrah (The Criterion Collection / Gomorra) Criterion Nov 24, 2009 Howards End (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009 Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009 Monsoon Wedding (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Oct 20, 2009 The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Pierrot le fou (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Monterey Pop (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Kagemusha (影武者 / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Aug 18, 2009 Playtime (Play Time / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Aug 18, 2009 Repulsion (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jul 28, 2009 For All Mankind (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jul 14, 2009 Last Year at Marienbad (L'Année dernière à Marienbad / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jun 23, 2009 The Seventh Seal (Det sjunde inseglet / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jun 16, 2009 The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 05, 2009 In the Realm of the Senses (Ai no corrida / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 28, 2009 The Wages of Fear (Le salaire de la peur / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 21, 2009 As it's already been mention, I'm sure some sort of commonality, most likely with a single pressing plant, perhaps even with certain pressing machinery, glues/chemicals or processes that were instituted and perhaps later changed in mid/late 2010 will wind up being the culprit. If this issue starts showing up in newer Criterion releases moving forward, they have a very serious PR problem even if they offer replacement discs. Although such wide ranging "laser rot" issues have been previously rare in cd/dvd/ld production runs, it has* happened, most notably near the end of the Laserdisc format in the early 90's when several large production runs of certain Sony/TriStar LD titles (Starship Troopers and Contact to name two) were found to rot and become unplayable in under a year's time due to likely bad laminating which caused oxidation in the data layer. Last edited by Partyslammer; 10-03-2014 at 11:16 PM.

09-30-2014, 02:29 AM	#61
Brian81 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Mar 2011 Trading Score:4	If the disc is bronzing, it will fail. It may take years, but it'll happen. At least the rot can be identified by visual inspection...makes this somewhat easier.

09-30-2014, 02:32 AM	#62
GIR New Member Member since:Sep 2014	I just checked my copy of Walkabout and it is very much a horrid shade of brown however it seems to play fine and without any problems on my HTPC... oh wait it's playing the ISO from the NAS. Sorry guys

09-30-2014, 02:33 AM	#63
Brent L. Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Anderson, SC Blu-ray collection:1156 Trading Score:25	Thank God it seems to just be from late 2009 to mid 2010. Just imagine if this was something that started to affecting their entire BD collection. The damage would be incredible, and I'd really hate it for them. Like someone said earlier though, I just hope a year from now we aren't posting in this thread about titles from late 2010 to mid 2011.

09-30-2014, 02:44 AM	#65
neo_reloaded Banned Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Blu-ray collection:416 Trading Score:72	This wouldn't be the first time a large number of bad discs came from a single publisher: 1) Many early Lionsgate titles have failed. BDs that once worked now mysteriously don't load at all (with no signs of any damage or chemical change visible on the disc). Examples include Basic Instinct, American Psycho, Lord of War, Terminator 2 (original BD release, not the Skynet one), Devil's Rejects, etc. Not all copies, but enough that threads have popped up here and at avsforum and similar places complaining about it. 2) Many copies of the first pressing of The Prestige (and I believe a second title from that period, but I can't remember which) developed weird white splotches. Again, this was something that occurred over time - but the effect was unmistakable once it did occur. It was traced back to a bad batch of the protective coating applied to BDs, and Disney sent replacement discs. There have been no new cases of this phenomenon. 3) Universal BDs. Starting from when Universal finally started releasing Blu-rays, and extending through at least a couple years after that, there was an oddly high number of bad discs or bad batches released. Really any Universal title was susceptible, and the symptom would be a hard freeze at one or more timestamps during the film. This was, thankfully, not a huge deal as there was no chemical reaction or time-dependent process that had to unfold - a disc was either bad (and would freeze at that spot every time) or good (played through every time). If you got a bad disc, you simply returned it until you got a good one, and you'd feel confident that that disc would continue to work indefinitely. This Criterion issue seems like a mix of cases 1) and 2). Span of titles over a timespan, not one specific title, but a clear visible signifier of the chemical change causing the problem.

09-30-2014, 02:48 AM	#68
Brent L. Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Anderson, SC Blu-ray collection:1156 Trading Score:25	My Rise of the Planet of the Apes went bad as well. I had the original release of it and kept it for years before finally watching it so I could go see the sequel earlier this year and it also wouldn't load in any of my players, just like these. It doesn't have the bronzing, but instead it just has weird looking "waves" all over the bottom of it.

09-30-2014, 02:50 AM	#70
GasmaskAvenger Blu-ray Baron Top contributor Member since:Jul 2014 Location:Fresno, California, USA 4K collection:1116 Blu-ray collection:4991 DVD collection:656 Trading Score:33	At least the Criterion blu-rays I own are not on that list.

09-30-2014, 02:55 AM	#73
PowellPressburger Blu-ray Count Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:DIFFERENT PLACES! Minneapolis 4K collection:995 Blu-ray collection:3674 DVD collection:359 Blu-ray reviews: 51 Trading Score:297	My copies of 8 1/2, In the Realm of the Senses, Stagecoach, Days of Heaven, Paris, Texas and OOP tiltes like Third Man, Le Cercle Rouge, Army of Shadows, Last Yr A.M. Leon Morin and Pierrot Le Fou all look fine. in the realm of the senses / Paris, Texas, Stagecoach were more recent purchase so possibly a new pressings? I checked other older discs from WB and they looked fine. My copy of Walkabout didn't u can see compared to ITRotS image.jpg

09-30-2014, 02:58 AM	#77
Brian81 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Mar 2011 Trading Score:4	Partyslammer: Someone in this very thread posted a picture of a bronzed "In The Realm of the Senses"... BTW....keeping a listing of matrix numbers of affected discs might help ...

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