Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[pedromvu]

I Would also advise to check all your pre mid 2010 titles, not just the ones on the list, just to be safe, and this way we can be sure that there are certain discs that doesn't present the issue.

Then after all our compiled info we send it to Criterion

[cakefactory]

I have M, Walkabout, 8 1/2, Days of Heaven, Paris Texas, and Wings of Desire, I watched all of them at least 3 years ago, and nothing looks odd to me really. It's hard to see bluray surfaces, though, they all look wavy and brownish to me in most light. I will try that Nero thing tomorrow cause now I'm paranoid.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

I have M, Walkabout, 8 1/2, Days of Heaven, Paris Texas, and Wings of Desire, I watched all of them at least 3 years ago, and nothing looks odd to me really. It's hard to see bluray surfaces, though, they all look wavy and brownish to me in most light. I will try that Nero thing tomorrow cause now I'm paranoid.

I Put them all on a table to be check them from several angles, it also helps to have one bad disc to compare with the others.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Can there be an additional listing of titles which have showed bronzing on some members' discs but still worked for them? I think it would be useful to have a listing of "potential" rotters...and not just "confirmed" rotters.

Surely eventually all "potential" rotters are going to become "confirmed" rotters?

This is the thing I don't understand - how has the bronzing issue gone unnoticed all this time? Even if the disc still plays, I would have thought someone would have noticed even a slight bronze colour on the underside at some point. If it happens suddenly, then surely it will go from "potential" to "confirmed" very quickly.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by Canada

I know that this is off topic, does any one know if there was CD or DVD rot, I know that some disks are effected over time, I'm talking about in less than five years.

I have about 3,000 cds and maybe 500 dvds. I've lost maybe 5 cds to rot including a European original release of Gary Moore's "Victims of the Future." Of the 10 or so DVDs that I've lost to rot include "Kentucky Fried Movie," "Frankenstein Created Woman" and the non Criterion release of "Andy Warhol's Dracula."

[Feiereisel]

Scuzzy disc update: Summer Hours, and now Gomorrah.

Summer Hours is visibly brown and fully freezes before jumping to a later point in the film. Gomorrah is only gently ruined--it skips and freezes from about 1:03:00-1:05:00 without dropping out completely and then resumes normal playback.

I've spot-checked the other titles mentioned and haven't had any issues.

--

Also: someone a couple of pages back (I can't recall who--get at me and I'll edit the post with appropriate credit) alluded to Criterion seeking restitution from the manufacturing company. Perhaps their silence has to do with the (however scant) possibility of legal action.

I don't know from yer fancy big-city lawyerin', but it's feasible that a legal representative would insist that they get all their ducks in a row before they issued even an informal statement or promised anything about the issue to anybody in writing, even through something as innocuous as the Mulvaney account.

(I know it sounds like I'm grabbing at apologist straws, but I refuse to believe that this is some kind of sweep-it-under-the-rug conspiracy. Vehemently, vigorously, and volubly, I refuse.)

[James Luckard]

I checked my M, Days of Heaven and Monsoon Wedding.

Monsoon Wedding and Days of Heaven looked normal.

M looked slightly golden instead of silver, not sure if that's bronzing, or if the disc was always a slightly different color. However it played fine.

[GeorgeP12]

I have 8 of 10 released from the list and they do have the problem.

I has checked SID Mastering Code on some of them. The code is located in the inner ring from optical disc. It's IFPI LB42. The disc from the recent "The Innocents" release has IFPI L322. Hence Criterion changed a mastering plant at some point in past.

UPD: A few discs from collection sorted by release date:

29-Jul-09 L021 Kagemusha
29-Jul-09 L021 Playtime
22-Sep-09 L021 Complete Monterey Pop Festival, The
22-Sep-09 L021 Pierrot Le Fou
20-Oct-09 L021 Monsoon Wedding
03-Nov-09 L021 Howards End
03-Nov-09 L021 Wings of Desire
01-Dec-09 ---- Christmas Tale, A
01-Dec-09 ---- Rolling Stones, The: Gimme Shelter
16-Dec-09 ---- Chungking Express
12-Jan-10 ---- 8 1/2
26-Jan-10 L021 Paris, Texas
16-Feb-10 ---- Revanche
23-Mar-10 ---- Bigger Than Life
23-Mar-10 LB42 Days of Heaven
23-Mar-10 ---- Yojimbo / Sanjuro
20-Apr-10 L322 Summer Hours
20-Apr-10 ---- Vivre sa vie: Film en douze tableaux
11-May-10 LB42 M
18-May-10 LB42 Walkabout
25-May-10 L021 Stagecoach
25-May-10 L021 By Brakhage: An Anthology

I did not yet check the mastering code for all these discs. The "bronzing" discs were printed on LB42 and on L021.

[Buscemi]

I only have one of these (Days of Heaven) and it plays fine. It's possible that it could only affect discs pressed during a certain time (I got my copy of Days of Heaven new in early 2014).

[BobbyMcGee]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

This is a list of all Criterion BD releases sorted by release date that cover the release dates spanning the first and last (so far) titles that have shown signs of so-called laser-rot. I would suggest that anyone that has any title on this list check their discs for similar physical disc "bronzing" and playback issues. Discs already noted to have issues are starred with an asterisk (*):


*Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

By Brakhage: An Anthology, Volumes One and Two (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

*Walkabout (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 18, 2010

*M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010

*Ride with the Devil (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 27, 2010

Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Summer Hours (L'heure d'été / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo (Yôjinbô / 用心棒 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Sanjuro (Tsubaki Sanjûrô / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo / Sanjuro (用心棒 / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Bigger Than Life (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Lola Montès (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Revanche (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

*Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010

Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010

8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010

A Christmas Tale (Un conte de Noël / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

Gimme Shelter (The Rolling Stones / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

Gomorrah (The Criterion Collection / Gomorra) Criterion Nov 24, 2009

*Howards End (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

*Monsoon Wedding (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Oct 20, 2009

The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

*Pierrot le fou (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Monterey Pop (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009


As it's already been mention, I'm sure some sort of commonality, most likely with a single pressing plant, perhaps even with certain pressing machinery, glues/chemicals or processes that were instituted and perhaps later changed in mid/late 2010 will wind up being the culprit. If this issue starts showing up in newer Criterion releases moving forward, they have a very serious PR problem even if they offer replacement discs.

Although such wide ranging "laser rot" issues have been previously rare in cd/dvd/ld production runs, it has happened, most notably near the end of the Laserdisc format in the early 90's when several large production runs of certain Sony/TriStar LD titles (Starship Troopers and Contact to name two) were found to rot and become unplayable in under a year's time due to likely bad laminating which caused oxidation in the data layer.

Did a visual inspection of all the titles I own from the list above (Spoiler'ed), also found here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=68

I own almost all of the titles listed above, the only title that showed discoloration was "M". The back of the case says, "First printing 2010". I placed the disc in two different Blu-ray players, the menu pops up but when you press play the disc skips to chapter 5. I tried rewinding and the disc will fast forward back to chapter 5. Also, while playing chapter 5 the disc temporarily freezes. I've played this disc multiple times in the past with no issues. The most recent probably a year or so ago.

Here is a pic of the back of the disc (Spoiler'ed):

[Show spoiler]

Tomorrow, I will try playing all the titles I own from the list above to check for any problems.

This is truly disconcerting to say the least. Hopefully none of the other titles I own from the above list will have playback issues. However, how am I to know that this will not occur at some point in the future?

I also plan to directly contact Criterion tomorrow as well.

[Spire]

Is there more than one printing of some of these anyways? I've wanted to pick up M for more than a year now but maybe it's better I didnt.

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by BobbyMcGee

This is truly disconcerting to say the least. Hopefully none of the other titles I own from the above list will have playback issues. However, how am I to know that this will not occur at some point in the future?

This is the issue. If you see the brown/bronze discolouration creeping in from the outer edge, while the disc might play fine now, from what I can read on the net (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_bronzing) it's the start of an irreversible chemical process, the disc will ultimately break down. Given the age of these discs (4+ years) and the various stages of discolouration already exampled by people, this process could be taking a long time.

[Dan8700]

Originally Posted by GeorgeP12

I have 8 of 10 released from the list and they do have the problem.
I has checked SID Mastering Code on some of them. The code is located in the inner ring from optical disc. It's IFPI LB42. The disc from the recent "The Innocents" release has IFPI L322. Hence Criterion changed a mastering plant at some point in past.

UPD: A few discs from collection sorted by release date:

29-Jul-09 L021 Kagemusha
29-Jul-09 L021 Playtime
22-Sep-09 L021 Complete Monterey Pop Festival, The
22-Sep-09 L021 Pierrot Le Fou
20-Oct-09 L021 Monsoon Wedding
03-Nov-09 L021 Howards End
03-Nov-09 L021 Wings of Desire
01-Dec-09 ---- Christmas Tale, A
01-Dec-09 ---- Rolling Stones, The: Gimme Shelter
16-Dec-09 ---- Chungking Express
12-Jan-10 ---- 8 1/2
26-Jan-10 L021 Paris, Texas
16-Feb-10 ---- Revanche
23-Mar-10 ---- Bigger Than Life
23-Mar-10 LB42 Days of Heaven
23-Mar-10 ---- Yojimbo / Sanjuro
20-Apr-10 L322 Summer Hours
20-Apr-10 ---- Vivre sa vie: Film en douze tableaux
11-May-10 LB42 M
18-May-10 LB42 Walkabout
25-May-10 L021 Stagecoach
25-May-10 L021 By Brakhage: An Anthology

I did not yet check the mastering code for all these discs. The "bronzing" discs were printed on LB42 and on L021.

Thank you, sir. This is what I was thinking about, the SID code.

Please, pay attention, all the posters: doesn't matter if the cover reads "first printing", doesn't mean ANYTHING, you have to check the disc matrix-SID codes, as George said. Let's see if this method is a good one to sort the problem out (it can be of help for CC guys, too).
I own three of these, one of them bought recently, the other two some time ago, but surely not in 2010.
No bronzing.
They don't seem to have any issues=OK discs.

Chungking Express - IFP L321 (Second printing on the cover)
Days of Heaven - IFP L324 (FP on the cover)
Vivre Sa Vie - IFP L325 (FP on the cover)

I gather this L32* code indicates a recent "matrix", therefore it should be "safe".

[Arkadin]

Originally Posted by cricketfan

My version of Walkabout is also browning along the edge. I'll be emailing Criterion too. I'm bummed. Walkabout was my first...Criterion blu-ray

mine also.
Walkabout seems to be the most consistently plagued release.
All the other titles listed above I have checked and see no browning--at least none of my copies.

[MartinL]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Most of these were released in late 2009 and the first half of 2010. They appear to be suffering from some form of disc rot.

Credit to Deep, Brent L., and many others for their information.

--------------------------------------------------

Days of Heaven

Gomorrah (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=117)

Howards End (OOP)

M (http://blog.criterioncast.com/post/9...ampaign=buffer)

Monsoon Wedding (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=158)

Monterey Pop (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=152)

Paris, Texas (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=124)

Pierrot le fou (OOP)

Ride With the Devil (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=135)

Stagecoach (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=122)

Summer Hours (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=247759)

Walkabout (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=38)

--------------------------------------------------

Here's a list of all titles that were released at the same time as the above ten:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=68

I own Stagecoach, M and Howards End and all of them are fine. M and Howards End were bought right on release date. Stagecoach a bit later.

[Eny-]

I own them all.

ATM I only have a faulty disc - Summer Hours.

I watched Walkabout and M - no problems.

I sampled Days of Heaven - no problems.

I visually inspected both The Seventh Seal and Paris, Texas - no apparent oxydation.

[tenia]

My 2 bits so far :

Tested :
Days of Heaven
Walkabout
Vivre sa vie
The Seventh Seal
Pierrot le fou

OK :
Vivre sa vie
The Seventh Seal
Pierrot le fou

None of them are visually bronze colored.

I tested them each time on my BD-ROM LG Player and my Panasonic HT player (a BDT-110). Days of Heaven and Walkabout can be read on my BDT-110 but can't be read properly on my BD-ROM player.

I checked DoH, Walkabout and The Seventh Seal through Nero CD-DVD Speed. Walkabout and The Seventh Seal froze the software at around 55% with no damaged or bad sectors.
Days of Heaven froze the software at about 56% with 0.8% of bad sectors (red) and about 7.5% of damaged sectors (yellow).


Criterion NEEDS to issue a statement very very soon, at least that they are aware people are having issues which for some titles most certainly are discs-related.
Otherwise, in a couple of days, people will report almost the whole collection to have issues where the majority of it will not be disc-related, and part only of this will be related to this specific problem (because how do you know your copy has an issue related to this stability issue and is not very simply a simple defective copy aside from any batch-related bigger issue ?).

I emailed Jon Mulvaney more than two weeks ago, with the same figures and explanations about DoH and Walkabout. I still haven't had any answer at all.

I'm very concerned by the fact I'm living in France and am importing all these Criterion releases. I own about 195 Criterion releases and would be awfully disappointed if left with numerous un-readable copies that I would have to re-buy at full price or even at a lower price.


I own most of the titles stated in the first post and in post #68 of this thread and will try and test them within the following days.

[adamhopelies]

I just checked the three titles that I have from this run (Pierrot Le Fou, Days Of Heaven and Lola Montes) and my discs look and play fine. Days Of Heaven was bought this year, so probably isn't from the initial batch of discs manufactured, but the other two were bought on release.

[PLG1962]

I have


Pierrot Le Fou
Paris Texas
8 1/2

all looked ok [no bronzing] will test them in the morning

[javi92]

I have played the following with no issues:

Summer Hours
Pierrot le fou
Walkabout (FP)

I have visually inspected the following and they do NOT exhibit bronzing, but I have not recently played:

Days of Heaven (Played fine about 1 year ago when I watched it)
Ride With the Devil (Played fine about 1 year ago when I watched it)
Stagecoach
Howards End
Paris, Texas