Aliens 4K UHD (1986)

[KarmaNL]

JC might be a good director and all to some but he sure doesn't have a clue about remastering anything. Why would he though, it's a completely different thing altogether compared to directing a movie.

The fact that he thinks this looks good makes me question his eye for things.

There are a number of older remasters out there of even older films that look light years better than this and the use of the "yeh but Aliens was filmed on heavy grain stock" doesn't mean you can't do a proper remaster without scrubbing the whole thing.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

That Alien LD had an LFE track that could be measured on the Richter scale.

The Alien ac3 LD is sooo important. (Also because the previous boxset LD is a noisy not so good transfer and the Dolby Stereo sounds kinda lifeless) That 5.1 is a test mix supposedly done for a cancelled Sensurround release. I call it the "pee your pants" mix of Alien.
If a Sensurround release had actually happened people likely would've had heart attacks in the theater.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That remastered Aliens THX LD absolutely slaps. Better PQ than the DVD.

Yep like a lot of earlier DVDs. The theatrical reissue LD is usually sought after by current LD fans. The PQ is also MILES better than the old extended noisy as heck hope yours doesn't have any rot boxset.


I think with these new 4K masters we're in a whole new world of being able to tear into a film image and being able to manipulate elements. Cameron has a habit of getting to new toys first before others and even was doing this on LD masters.

[Piriven]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Rick Grimes

I accidentally boughtthe original Gladiator release. I’ve kept it as reference quality for shithouse transfers, and to show my mates how “Grain is, for want of a better word, is good.”

In the case of Gladiator though, I think the dizzy realised what a shitshow it was and re-released the title, most likely firing whoever prepped it.

I don’t think there is much we can do to change JC’s mind when he preps a film for 4K. With T2 in 4K, no matter how much derision there was on the internet, there is/was still no fix.

Many artists. that would have worked with film, like the digitally manipulated look. My wife did a fine art degree in the 00’s. Sadly, the DNR’d, over sharpened and processed look was what she was taught to do back then.
Someone in Australia stuffed the local release of Chopper, with too much digital tampering and grain filtering. Probably a classmate of my wife’s. Had to purchase UK’s Second Sight release to get a filmic looking transfer of Chopper.

I believe Cameron is essentially a “grain hater”, again, for want of a better word. He specifically mentioned when he DNR’d Aliens for the Blu-Ray release that he was not happy with the film stock of the ‘mid-80’s, as he didn’t like how grainy it looked.
JC mentions in an interview how he was very happy to be able to clean up Aliens, for the most part; as there are a couple of shots on the Aliens 1080pBD that still look filmic, with most of the grain intact.

Aliens 4K is in trouble, with Cameron prepping the transfer, as he has/will choose to remove film grain, no matter how much fine detail is lost in the process. It’s a gods-damn shame.

Understood, but I still think it’s worth letting the studio know how appalled we all are. Aliens may be beyond saving while Cameron is breathing, but we don’t want studios to think shAIte versions are the way to go.

[SwatDB]

Originally Posted by qwertyuio

She was the alien the whole time! Looks like those rebel aliens from x-files that sealed their eyes and mouths closed.

For those of you that are wondering who this stunt woman is for Sigourney Weaver for this particular shot? That's Eleanor "Ellie" Bertram

Examples of her Stuntwork:

Willow (1988)
High Spirits (1988)
Haakon Haakonsen [Shipwrecked!] (1990)

[SwatDB]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Yep like a lot of earlier DVDs. The theatrical reissue LD is usually sought after by current LD fans. The PQ is also MILES better than the old extended noisy as heck hope yours doesn't have any rot boxset.


I think with these new 4K masters we're in a whole new world of being able to tear into a film image and being able to manipulate elements. Cameron has a habit of getting to new toys first before others and even was doing this on LD masters.

Just in case of you are aware?

[Danric]

I just saw the streaming of this and if there is a hell and hell has a ticket booth, I'd buy first row seats to watch James Cameron and George Lucas pay for their sins.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

OK, so I have acquired a streaming copy of ALIENS and watched a fair bit of it.
Holy hell, this is just as much an abomination as TRUE LIES.

Yes, grain has been scrubbed, which is sacrilege to the tone and atmosphere of this movie. The grain actually adds to the ambiance of ALIENS, but now that's gone. Which, if that was the ONLY issue of this release I wouldn't complain too much about.

Additionally, the brightness, contrast, and shadow levels have been heavily boosted, in an attempt to make it look more "modern" and "fresh". It's as if whoever did this transfer has the belief that "brighter is 'prettier'", but this completely scrubbed/washed away so much of this movie's gritty and grass-rootsy look. Ultimately, viewing this transfer is very different in tone due to this excessive brightness boost (and grain removal).

The biggest distraction of all is just like with TRUE LIES: Frame by frame, the AI scrubbing effect will smooth skin textures - or any moving objects - while in motion, then suddenly and unexpectedly show pores and more detail within the same shot. Additionally, one second will be dark lines on a face with overly sharpened and flattened wrinkles, only to have a more natural looking frame a half second after THAT. It's so jarring, that it makes the movie very difficult to watch. Once you see these inconsistencies, you can't UNSEE it.
A good example of how awful things can get (and there are many examples), is at 42:52 in the theatrical cut. This is the "Looks like love at first sight to me" scene. Ripley is standing in the doorway, and Hicks calls for Goreman to come up to the entrance of the lab. Hicks' flashlight moves across Ripley's face. Ripley already looked pretty plastic-y and unrealistic because she's ever-so-slightly out of focus, so the AI goes haywire and decides to merely smooth out her entire face. But then, Hicks' flashlight rolls across her face and she becomes a completely smooth, CGI-generated facsimile of what a human looks like in-camera.
There are THOUSANDS of instances like this, and it's not worth posting pics and continually hammering home the pathetic and atrocious abuse that has been done to this movie. It's like someone pressed "AI enhance", walked away, came back when it was done without looking at a single one-minute clip and called it a day.

I thought it might be a little fun to tweak settings a bit with some software, and look for ways to soften the sledge hammer blow of a transfer with minor video adjustments. I reduced contrast, subdued some of the mid-level shadow detail, lowered brightness by about 10 steps, and added artificial grain. I was hoping that the slight sheen of grain would hide the crappy frame-by-frame smoothing.
It didn't help. This is beyond fixing. That overly sharpened 'detail' has scrubbed lots of the organic nuance and detail of better transfers of this movie. There's no way to unf*** the shitsmear claymation AI 'enhancements'. Nah, it's too far gone.

I am sticking with the blu-ray.

Ugh. You just blew up my excitement for this, LOL. I’ve been reading various reviews but yours hit home. Damn. I’ve been waiting for this to be on 4K for a while now. When it was announced I was so happy. Not so much any more.

The Blu-ray is actually pretty good and if that’s what I have to stay with I will. I pray the disc is different than the streaming versions out there.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

^ This. iTunes while better than Amazon/Vudu is still only about one-third the bitrate of a UHD. The Kaleidoscope version is a better judge of accuracy.

I have the 4K HDR on Kaleidescape, and it pales in comparison to the HD version that I had on there before. Looks just as bad as all these others unfortunately.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Piriven

Understood, but I still think it’s worth letting the studio know how appalled we all are. Aliens may be beyond saving while Cameron is breathing, but we don’t want studios to think shAIte versions are the way to go.

Unfortunately most of the reviews are basically THIS LOOKS AMAZING so I'm not sure they are going to get the message.

[Big-D]

If the forthcoming release does in fact end up looking that abominable, then I'll mux its Atmos soundtrack on to the Blu-ray. That way it won't be a complete write-off, surely the sound will be good? I hope

[Atomic Salad]

Originally Posted by SwatDB

For those of you that are wondering who this stunt woman is for Sigourney Weaver for this particular shot? That's Eleanor "Ellie" Bertram

Examples of her Stuntwork:

Willow (1988)
High Spirits (1988)
Haakon Haakonsen [Shipwrecked!] (1990)

It's a puppet

[Danric]

In my country, we have a saying that goes something like "What is a fart when your pants are already soiled?".
In that spirit, would it hurt for them to de-halo the image a bit? Everything in this remaster is giving the old Bride of Chucky Blu look, even the text on opening credits have that unholy contour.
It's like the lab went out of their way to make this movie look like an American music video from the early 2000's.
Now I'm convinced that T2 UHD wasn't a mistake, it was Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.

[Noir Black Schwarz]

Originally Posted by Big-D

If the forthcoming release does in fact end up looking that abominable, then I'll mux its Atmos soundtrack on to the Blu-ray. That way it won't be a complete write-off, surely the sound will be good? I hope

Sorry, looks like what abominable?

Anyway, when is the freaking preorder going up for this disc? I want it now!!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

The Alien ac3 LD is sooo important. (Also because the previous boxset LD is a noisy not so good transfer and the Dolby Stereo sounds kinda lifeless) That 5.1 is a test mix supposedly done for a cancelled Sensurround release. I call it the "pee your pants" mix of Alien.
If a Sensurround release had actually happened people likely would've had heart attacks in the theater.

I wasn't aware of this track. It seems it also has some unique sound cues after further reading. I don't suppose that was included on the blu-ray or UHD?

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I wasn't aware of this track. It seems it also has some unique sound cues after further reading. I don't suppose that was included on the blu-ray or UHD?

Nope. Some of the music cues are a tad different too. But on a technical level its an unbelievably impressive mix for 1979-even for 70mm standards. I don't know how it ended up on this LD unless someone thought it would be cool or didn't know what source they pulled at first. This is sort of akin I suppose to the Blade Runner workprint first getting out.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Nope. Some of the music cues are a tad different too. But on a technical level its an unbelievably impressive mix for 1979-even for 70mm standards. I don't know how it ended up on this LD unless someone thought it would be cool or didn't know what source they pulled at first. This is sort of akin I suppose to the Blade Runner workprint first getting out.

Further reading seems to suggest it was a mistake and whoever originally pulled this track for use for the laserdisc wasn't aware it was the unused test sensurround track.

[SwatDB]

Originally Posted by Atomic Salad

It's a puppet

Then what does this look like to you?

How bout this? (the woman to the left, during "Starlight Express: The Musical [London (1984-1986)]")

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by SwatDB

Then what does this look like to you?

Can you focus for a moment? THAT specific shot which was posted earlier is a MINIATURE, get it? So you have Weaver, her stunt double and a puppet depending on the shot.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I wasn't aware of this track. It seems it also has some unique sound cues after further reading. I don't suppose that was included on the blu-ray or UHD?

It's got some different dialogue readings and missing dialogue too.

[SwatDB]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Can you focus for a moment?

Is this cropping better? (check attachment)

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

THAT specific shot which was posted earlier is a MINIATURE, get it?

The Mini-Puppet of the "Alien Queen"? It resides at Bob Burns' Basement.

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

So you have Weaver, her stunt double and a puppet depending on the shot.

The Woman? She's no puppet (because you can see her head move a bit) not even the actress was present at this shot.
Occupation? It is indeed a stunt performer.
Her name? Eleanor "Ellie" Bertram, like I said. (according to Jon Auty, host of "Behind the Stunts") [from the info that I've got.]

Satisfied, or need I say more? (other than the posted image from the [allegedly upscaled] 2023 4K Master shot of the double in question.)