The Shining (1980)

[pmil]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

1. Jack and Grady in bathroom
2. Opening sequence
3. Bar scene
4. Jack in 237
5. When hotel starts haunting Wendy - the score changes to a slow double beat (du-du, du-du, du-du, etc) followed by Native American chants in background as she starts walking around.

Hmm, I never noticed the American Indian chants in the background. I'll have to play it later to see if I can notice it. Then again I'm simply using my TVs builtin speakers so I may not be able to.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

I find the Grady Twins and The guy in the bear suit incredibly creepy. The "ghosts" in this movie work really well IMO.

Right, because they're not "ghosts" in traditional sense. They are more akin to living and breathing entities, since Danny is "shining" and hence looking back through time when he sees them and hence is detecting "traces of events left behind, like smelling burnt toast" as Hallaron said when he discussed Shining.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by pmil

Hmm, I never noticed the American Indian chants in the background. I'll have to play it later to see if I can notice it. Then again I'm simply using my TVs builtin speakers so I may not be able to.

Its right when Wendy is ascending the stairs and right before she sees the bear and dude in the room. Sounds like chanting ritual. Unmistakable.

The Shining - Weirdest Scene - YouTube

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by pmil

Well, I'm of the camp that when it comes to ghosts, much less is very much more. It's the unknown that I find to be a more effective creepiness. I feel the same way when it comes to effects, visual and audio, which is why I don't like the new version of the TV series A Haunting compared to Discovery's original episodes of the show, seasons 1-4.

Well compared to horror movies today they do use the ghosts very little. Most are just quick shots. They only use the Twins twice. In the game room (which in my opinion is a much more effective scene then the hallway one) and the hallway scene. The only prolonged ghost sequences are the bar scene and the bathroom scene.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Its right when Wendy is ascending the stairs and right before she sees the bear and dude in the room. Sounds like chanting ritual. Unmistakable.

The Shining - Weirdest Scene - YouTube

That doesn't sound like anything American Indian. It sounds like occult or satanic like chants.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

Well compared to horror movies today they do use the ghosts very little. Most are just quick shots. They only use the Twins twice. In the game room (which in my opinion is a much more effective scene then the hallway one) and the hallway scene. The only prolonged ghost sequences are the bar scene and the bathroom scene.

Sure, but I'm also comparing it to movies from the period when it was made, and in the 70s. Movies like the Omen and the Amityville Horror, and even the Exorcist, despite the jarring scenes and images of the possessed child. You saw little to no ghostly things.

Today's horror, forgot about it. It is so overly done by the the things I described that I can't even watch them, and it's sad too because it is my favorite genre.

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Right, because they're not "ghosts" in traditional sense. They are more akin to living and breathing entities, since Danny is "shining" and hence looking back through time when he sees them and hence is detecting "traces of events left behind, like smelling burnt toast" as Hallaron said when he discussed Shining.

I always have felt the Twins weren't bad spirits. I always saw it as them trying to warn Danny about what was gonna happen.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by pmil

That doesn't sound like anything American Indian. It sounds like occult or satanic like chants.

No basis in the film. Hotel is built on Native American burial ground, not a burial ground of satanists. Native American artwork throughout the hotel lobby. Plus, the percussion following the chants sounds Native American.

Not to mention Native American chanting also from 1:20-2:00 during opening sequence

The Shining • first scene 1080p - YouTube

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

I always have felt the Twins weren't bad spirits. I always saw it as them trying to warn Danny about what was gonna happen.

Not me...more like an invitation to join them. (shudder)

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

I always have felt the Twins weren't bad spirits. I always saw it as them trying to warn Danny about what was gonna happen.

I agree except one thing makes me think they are sinister. After they tell Danny they want to play, they turn and look at each other and giggle and then turn away from him (in game room). Something about that exchange they make with each other is sinister.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

No basis in the film. Hotel is built on Native American burial ground, not a burial ground of satanists. Native American artwork throughout the hotel lobby. Plus, the percussion following the chants sounds Native American.

Not to mention Native American chanting also from 1:20-2:00 during opening sequence

The Shining • first scene 1080p - YouTube

I don't know what country you are from but I'm American and I don't recognize that as necessarily being American Indian chants. Besides, I was addressing the other scene in the video posted and that scene is far less conclusive as being of American Indian in origin. As I said, that scene sounds more like occult or satanic chants. That also doesn't mean coming from satanists, an important distinction, since entities, including demonic ones are capable of producing whatever sounds they want you to hear. I have read, listened to and watched a lot on the paranormal and that's something people often hear during bad hauntings. That the location in the film is supposed to be on an American Indian burial ground doesn't automatically support what you are saying.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by pmil

I don't know what country you are from but I'm American and I don't recognize that as necessarily being American Indian chants. Besides, I was addressing the other scene in the video posted and that scene is far less conclusive as being of American Indian in origin. As I said, that scene sounds more like occult or satanic chants. That also doesn't mean coming from satanists, an important distinction, since entities, including demonic ones are capable of producing whatever sounds they want you to hear. I have read, listened to and watched a lot on the paranormal and that's something people often hear during bad hauntings. That the location in the film is supposed to be on an American Indian burial ground doesn't automatically support what you are saying.

What's the basis in the film of it being an occultist or satanist chant? Who are the "demonic entities" in the film that would be making the chant? Could they be the spirits of the Native Americans (but not making Native American chants)? Or are they spirits of other people who died after Native Americans?

[The Sovereign]

1. Opening sequence and score
2. Danny drives up on the Grady twins
3. Jack and Mr. Grady converse in the restroom
4. Jack visits Room 237
5. Wendy reviews Jack’s writing

[The Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

I always have felt the Twins weren't bad spirits. I always saw it as them trying to warn Danny about what was gonna happen.

Nope. I always saw them as scary AF. Still do.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

What's the basis in the film of it being an occultist or satanist chant? Who are the "demonic entities" in the film that would be making the chant? Could they be the spirits of the American Indians (but not making American Indian chants)? Or are they spirits of other people who died after American Indians?

You're taking a simplistic view, and that it must be a given that there should be an obvious basis, and a connection to American Indians just because they were mentioned. I've given a plausible explanation based on well documented hauntings and paranormal activity. Read again what I wrote regarding what could be making those sounds and try and consider that it may not be what you want it to be.

A demonic entity is a demon, and there are many. They are often implicated for causing sickness, violence and murder in places with such histories, and for being the origin of that bad history. Angry, depressed and evil human spirits can also cause such things, but to a much lesser degree. Either are known to be able to generate sounds to terrify the living, with again the human spirits to a much lesser degree. Chanting is one of those sounds, and is quite commonly heard in bad hauntings.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by pmil

You're taking a simplistic view, and that it must be a given that there should be an obvious basis, and a connection to American Indians just because they were mentioned. I've given a plausible explanation based on well documented hauntings and paranormal activity. Read again what I wrote regarding what could be making those sounds and try and consider that it may not be what you want it to be.

I was being sincere in my questions. I'm open to another interpretation.

A demonic entity is a demon, and there are many. They are often implicated for causing sickness, violence and murder in places with such histories, and for being the origin of that bad history. Angry, depressed and evil human spirits can also cause such things, but to a much lesser degree. Either are known to be able to generate sounds to terrify the living, with again the human spirits to a much lesser degree. Chanting is one of those sounds, and is quite commonly heard in bad hauntings.

I'm open to another interpretation but such interpretation should be based in the film narrative. This theory seems based on general knowledge about demons rather than anything in the film. Unless I'm missing something?

[bobbyh64]

I never thought the sounds heard in the beginning of the film or that bear scene were either satanic or pre-Columbian Native American Indian; I thought it was just weird and creepy sounding music that Kubrick liked. Wendy/Walter Carlos made a synthesizer version of the Dies irae Gregorian chant and added some ghost-wailing sounds for effect. At least that’s how I always thought of it. I wonder if Carlos has ever talked about this. Either way, I think it’s one of the best horror themes of all time.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

I was being sincere in my questions. I'm open to another interpretation.



I'm open to another interpretation but such interpretation should be based in the film narrative. This theory seems based on general knowledge about demons rather than anything in the film. Unless I'm missing something?

I wasn't questioning your sincerity.

See, you're doing it again, expecting something to be based on the obvious, or something made aware to the viewer. Movies, especially the best ones, don't always work that way.

No, my theory is based on general knowledge of hauntings. As I said, it could be due to demonic or human spirit activity. Consider also that even if it sounded like obvious Indian chanting, that doesn't mean it's origin is from such Indians. As I said, demons and human spirits can created whatever sounds they want to scare people.

[koberulz]

pmil, the multi-quote button is right there.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by pmil

I wasn't questioning your sincerity.

See, you're doing it again, expecting something to be based on the obvious, or something made aware to the viewer. Movies, especially the best ones, don't always work that way.

No, my theory is based on general knowledge of hauntings. As I said, it could be due to demonic or human spirit activity. Consider also that even if it sounded like obvious Indian chanting, that doesn't mean it's origin is from such Indians. As I said, demons and human spirits can created whatever sounds they want to scare people.

Ok thanks. I'll give the theory some thought.