My First Separate - My impressions

[mdabb]

I don't think one should expect to hear a huge difference. First we are talking home theater duty and the amp is just a workhorse. You want your amp to remain neutral and not have all that much of an influence on sound. Now I expect the external amp to make the sound cleaner and offer more dynamic headroom being more powerful. Your receiver has pretty much all the influence in terms of what you will ultimately hear. The main reason a person should want an amp to pair with their receiver is to increase power if they feel they need more power or if you have speakers that can't be powered correctly by the receiver's internal amp.

If you love music and want to get the most out of upgrades, I would consider looking into dedicated two channel gear. There are two channel preamps that have a "home theater bypass circuit" that allow you to combine home theater and two channel gear into one setup. My opinion is that no receiver manufactured today regardless of price can compete with decent two channel gear when it comes to music. I don't know why it is, but AVR's and pre/pro's are horrible when it comes to music period. Perhaps they have too much crap going on inside of them............. If you love home theater more than music, upgrading to better speakers and going to separates will offer the biggest improvements.

You might also want to look into acoustically treating your room. Just know that hanging skinny pieces of foam on the wall is not much of a solution and ultimately will only affect the high frequencies. Then you will really notice how bad the low end sounds. You could also try messing with speaker placement to maximize what you have now.

[Intamin]

I would say the "night and day" improvements are blown way out of proportion. At most, what you're experiencing would be typical in my opinion. During most listening sessions, you're not going to be using that much wattage to power your speakers, so just getting more watts won't make much of a difference, except for at high volumes and peaks, which is what you're noticing. The other thing that is typical is that everything should just sound cleaner and crisper. I've done multiple comparisons with my amp vs receiver, and it's not a night and day difference, but it's definitely there and I'm satisfied. Ultimately though, the biggest things that will impact the sound are speakers, your room, and your source.

[aramis109]

Some really good posts here guys. I think that for me, I'll save my money for a future speaker upgrade down the road. As you get higher end with speakers they typically have in common that they require more power to really sing and thus, the amp is needed.

This in my opinion may be one of the best threads on this site, because while there are opinions on both sides of the fence, it seems like everyone is being pretty objective about their own experiences.

[lucv13]

Great thread, like many, I also have ventured into the realm of using separate amps. I based my current receiver purchase on the fact that I would later be adding amps to drive my speakers.

Went with the entry level Marantz because it had the pre-outs. On its own the Marantz's 80wpc sounded great used for both HT and music, based on the capabilities of my speakers I opted to purchase a small Rotel 160wpc amp to drive my mains, and while for HT the difference was negligible I found that the amp definitely improved the soundstage for music both enriching the sound clarity at lower volumes and the ability to drive my fairly efficient Paradigms at higher volumes.

I found the difference very noticable especially when seated in the "sweet spot"

Recently I found a twin to my Rotel and puchased it thinking 1 amp was a great improvement 2 should be better, so now I have 2 Rotel 160wpc biamped driving my Paradigms, I didn't find the improvement if any to be noticable.

Now all things like this are subjective because when I added the 1st Rotel I found a huge improvement, but my daughter when explained that adding the 1st amp would improve the system's sound asked - Did it?

Well I am pleased with the overall improvement to the system - One more thing to try though since I have the 2 rotels the next step would be to run them in bridged mode for each fronts - someday when I get motivated, everything being in the wall unit it's a pain in the a$$ to get to

[-DLS-]

I guess it all really depends on the gear and how loud you listen at. Sometimes I like to listen real LOUD. I calibrated my system with a Radioshack SPL meter following Big_Daddy's thread instructions and I got 75 db at -7 on my receiver as a starting point from my normal listening position. My normal listening volumes after calibration was usually between -25 to -15 depending on what I watch or listen to. When I do play it loud I go close to zero sometimes and my Monitor 11's were already very efficient speakers but some songs got a little distorted between -10 and -5 but when I added the XPA-3, I was able to bring it to zero(which is my max) with tracks that couldn't go there before and didn't even want to try going higher since that was LOUD enough! It played with no distortion just sounded bright sometimes which was just the Monitor 11's at that level but the amp certainly helped clear things up. At normal listening I probably couldn't tell a difference.

With my new speakers(Studios) I hooked them up straight to the amp so I can't compare but I bet it would be a more noticeable difference than the Monitors even though the Studios are pretty efficient too. I don't want to mess with it so I probably won't even try with just the Yamaha.

[lucv13]

Originally Posted by DLS_222

I
With my new speakers(Studios) I hooked them up straight to the amp so I can't compare but I bet it would be a more noticeable difference than the Monitors even though the Studios are pretty efficient too. I don't want to mess with it so I probably won't even try with just the Yamaha.

Yea yea yea, I've seen your new speakers, and like everyone else I'm jealous but yes the Studios are efficient and the difference I'm sure would be quite a noticable over the Monitors driven by the yammie alone

[crazyBLUE]

My first experience with an amp was somewhat like DLS's . When I first ordered the amp my receiver was the Onkyo 606 & at high level of volume my Bostons sounded distorted . The 606 did not have Pre-outs so I went to the 663 For the receiver . I have never used an SPL meter on my system so its something I need to get ! Adding the UPA-7 completely eliminated the distortion from the listening at high volume levels ! I have my 2 amps driving my front 3 speakers & the receiver driving the surr. & surr. rears & Have no issues at high volume levels !!!!

[cembros]

one thing to remember is that its not ideal to just turn your amp on, listen to a scene in a movie and expect a difference. The biggest benefit in a seperate amp is heard over extended listening time. Your receiver will begin to tire and your sound will degrade whereas a good seperate amp can go all day a peak performance with out any negative effects.

[SRTCraig]

I find it hard to believe that some aren't hearing a difference?

I've tried a few different amps before settling on the one i liked best. They were all at different price points, and looking back i think it came down power/performance of the amp vs my receiver. If you've got a really good receiver the amp needs to be better to notice any differences. Not all amps are created equal, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend....

I've had an external amp for a while now and i do find the differences "Night & Day". I value music over HT hence why i added the amp and use it to tri-amp my fronts. I noticed another difference last night while watching Seven Pounds. The Dialogue, is just so crisp, so clear... I can only assume it's the decreased load that the receivers having to do. Anyone else finding this aswell???

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by SRTCraig

I find it hard to believe that some aren't hearing a difference?

I've tried a few different amps before settling on the one i liked best. They were all at different price points, and looking back i think it came down power/performance of the amp vs my receiver. If you've got a really good receiver the amp needs to be better to notice any differences. Not all amps are created equal, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend....

I've had an external amp for a while now and i do find the differences "Night & Day". I value music over HT hence why i added the amp and use it to tri-amp my fronts. I noticed another difference last night while watching Seven Pounds. The Dialogue, is just so crisp, so clear... I can only assume it's the decreased load that the receivers having to do. Anyone else finding this aswell???

Do you think it's possible that the speakers you're using pretty much require a lot of power? I think your setup is unique in all the forum and I would think amplification would be a must.

[SRTCraig]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Do you think it's possible that the speakers you're using pretty much require a lot of power? I think your setup is unique in all the forum and I would think amplification would be a must.

Yeah i think that plays a part in things.

I went from a NAD216 just to get me up and running. Both lines of speakers need to be powered independently. I got the bigger brother the 218 and i was quite happy with that. I only went further to improve the bass (run them direct from amp).

The differences even from the 218 were just massive!!! If i change a single interconnect anywhere in the system, i can instantly tell the difference. I made some I/C's Straightwire Chorus $10m, i preferred it to AQ sidewinders/king cobras, go figure. In the past i thought the whole cables make a difference was a joke. My receiver was an award winning flagship in it's day....

[crazyBLUE]

I know I hear A difference so much so I am thinking of getting the XPA-3 for my front 3 ~ Putting the UPA-7 on the surr. & putting the UPA-2 on the rear surr.!!!

[SRTCraig]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I know I hear A difference so much so I am thinking of getting the XPA-3 for my front 3 ~ Putting the UPA-7 on the surr. & putting the UPA-2 on the rear surr.!!!

I really would've liked to try an Emo, but having to import unheard was to much of a risk for me. The internet really is a hopeless place to read reviews IMO. There'll always be good and bad and a lot of people seem to bag them due to cost alone...

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by SRTCraig

I really would've liked to try an Emo, but having to import unheard was to much of a risk for me. The internet really is a hopeless place to read reviews IMO. There'll always be good and bad and a lot of people seem to bag them due to cost alone...

I know. I was just reading some Emotiva reviews on different forums. It's hard to find much straight information on them.

[SRTCraig]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I know. I was just reading some Emotiva reviews on different forums. It's hard to find much straight information on them.

I think our hobby needs more brands like emo. They're a great, economical, way to get into external amplification. Big name brands need companies like them to give consumers the bug and move on up.

[SRTCraig]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Do you think it's possible that the speakers you're using pretty much require a lot of power? I think your setup is unique in all the forum and I would think amplification would be a must.

I put a little more thought into your comment...

Adding an amp is not only about the power ;

* Low level listening especially music - at night i can listen at -35 to -40db on the denon and it's all still there. Bass is full and the imaging detail and soundstage are still intact.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Several things to consider: 1) listen to well recognized music rather than movies. 2) Home Theater amps are not normally as good as amps that are designed for 2 channel sound and listening to music. 3) is the rest of your system up to the new component amp? When listening to the music, listen for such things as clarity of the sound, imaging, soundstage, focus, dynamics, and bass response.

Rich

Very good comment's Rich, I personally use seperate 2 channel amps for each channel. I can tell a marked difference over any receiver that I 've heard - basically in dyanmics. All of my amps except for my Yamaha XM6150 were designed for 2 channel music - the XM6150 is an actual theater 6 channel amp that I have bridged to 3 channels and I only use 2 of them for the side rears. I listen to a lot of music that's performed live so I can understand your comments. I can also understand Vegas' comments also - good thread.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by SRTCraig

I put a little more thought into your comment...

Adding an amp is not only about the power ;

* Low level listening especially music - at night i can listen at -35 to -40db on the denon and it's all still there. Bass is full and the imaging detail and soundstage are still intact.

Excellent comment - that states (in a way) dynamics right there (from the quiet passages to the loudest passages). Excellent.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by SRTCraig

I put a little more thought into your comment...

Adding an amp is not only about the power ;

* Low level listening especially music - at night i can listen at -35 to -40db on the denon and it's all still there. Bass is full and the imaging detail and soundstage are still intact.

Originally Posted by prerich

Excellent comment - that states (in a way) dynamics right there (from the quiet passages to the loudest passages). Excellent.

I love listening to music at A normal volume with my amps , even more so now that I have my UPA-7 driving my front L/R only !! 2 channel sounds vary good at lower levels !!

[SRTCraig]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I love listening to music at A normal volume with my amps , even more so now that I have my UPA-7 driving my front L/R only !! 2 channel sounds vary good at lower levels !!

I think this is one of the qualities that people overlook the most. The more i think about it (yeah i think to much) the main difference is from running my subs from an amp. I could listen to music so low that the subs plate amps (set to auto), would not even turn on.

I'd love to hear an emo, would be very interesting indeed...