Please Help! HTiB or Buy Separately?!

[ijokr]

The energy package is a great deal, try and make offer on eBay on an acoustic audio subwoofer through thedeepdiscount, look for the psw or the oher similar sub (forgot the name), you can get them as low as $80

[Ataneruo]

Originally Posted by langn08

1. False, a HTIB is not the best value for your money

2. I am not saying you need to spend $800+ to enjoy audio, I giving him suggestions to get the best bang for his buck

I am claiming that an HTiB is the best value for your money because the audio quality on my relatively inexpensive HTiB is so high that spending more money would provide diminishing returns on quality. As an analogy, now that I am watching movies in 1080p on my 52 inch I don't really feel the need for 4k resolution. Of course, you can always pay more and purchase higher quality items, but the purpose of discussing value is to find high quality options for the lowest prices. The difficulty with any discussion of value is that people have different thresholds for quality, and if you are not satisfied with anything less then the very best, you will be holding forth higher priced items as your value set because they are worth it in your eyes and you will settle for nothing less. What I am saying is this: my HTiB is so high quality that I do not need to spend any more money to be completely satisfied, I believe I paid a very good price for what I received, and I believe based on the OP's statements about what he is looking for and what he values, that he will be very satisfied with the same system I have while meeting his price point.

With all that said, the more options the better, and if you can offer a custom build which offers the same sound quality for a better price than my recommended HTiB, then you have educated us all and helped the OP. Looks like you are pretty close right now, but I don't think you have quite accomplished this, which is why I stand behind my statement.

[langn08]

Originally Posted by BlackDevil

Langn08 I'm liking that Energy set and the Receiver. Getting both would be a nice $538, which is $100 cheaper than the Onkyo HTiB.

Now their "Name your price" promotion that's the lowest they'll go on it I guess right. (It also ends tomorrow so I really have to decide )

Also that receiver supports HD Audio (Lossless, LPCM, etc) and HDMI input right?

Looks like a winner, I just sent a price of $320 to 6th ave to see how cheap you can get this for.


* 90 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD
* Dolby® TrueHD, DTS-HD™ Master Audio, Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS-HD™ High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Express, Dolby® Digital EX, DTS-ES™, Pro Logic® IIz, and DTS Neo:6 decoding
* Analog-to-HDMI video up conversion (up to 1080i) with Faroudja DCDi™ Edge processing
* iPod® integration (requires optional DS-A2x iPod dock)
* SIRIUS satellite radio capable (requires SIRIUS subscription and optional Sirius Connect™ home tuner kit)
* Audyssey 2EQ auto speaker setup (microphone included)
* Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode to maintain steady listening levels
* Audyssey Dynamic EQ™ mode for fuller surround sound at lower volumes
* Music Optimizer for improved sound quality with compressed music files
* Dual-room/dual-source audio (powered and line-level stereo audio output for 2nd room; using powered 2nd-room output allows 5.1 Home theater in main room)
* High-current amplifier design
* 192kHz/24-bit digital-to-analog converters for all channels
* Aluminum front panel
* On-screen display for easier setup and operation
* Multi brand remote
* sleep timer (via remote)
* 17-1/8"W x 6-15/16"H x 12-15/16"D
* Connections:
* 1080p-compatible HDMI digital video switching (6 in, 1 out)
* HDMI version 1.3a with support for Deep Color, x.v.Color, lip-sync, DVD-Audio, SACD, and HDMI-CEC with compatible video Sources and TVs
* Analog-to-HDMI video up conversion with scaling up to 1080i
* Component video switching: 2 in, 1 out
* Digital inputs: 2 optical, 2 coaxial
* 5 audio/video inputs, including:
* 1 front-panel input with composite video
* 4 rear-panel inputs with composite video
* 2 audio-only inputs
* No phono input
* 2 subwoofer preamp outputs
* Front-panel mini jack for connecting portable audio player
* 1 set of main speaker outputs
* Back surround speaker channels re-assignable for bi-amping front left and right speakers

[langn08]

Originally Posted by Ataneruo

I am claiming that an HTiB is the best value for your money because the audio quality on my relatively inexpensive HTiB is so high that spending more money would provide diminishing returns on quality. As an analogy, now that I am watching movies in 1080p on my 52 inch I don't really feel the need for 4k resolution. Of course, you can always pay more and purchase higher quality items, but the purpose of discussing value is to find high quality options for the lowest prices. The difficulty with any discussion of value is that people have different thresholds for quality, and if you are not satisfied with anything less then the very best, you will be holding forth higher priced items as your value set because they are worth it in your eyes and you will settle for nothing less. What I am saying is this: my HTiB is so high quality that I do not need to spend any more money to be completely satisfied, I believe I paid a very good price for what I received, and I believe based on the OP's statements about what he is looking for and what he values, that he will be very satisfied with the same system I have while meeting his price point.

With all that said, the more options the better, and if you can offer a custom build which offers the same sound quality for a better price than my recommended HTiB, then you have educated us all and helped the OP. Looks like you are pretty close right now, but I don't think you have quite accomplished this, which is why I stand behind my statement.

Firstly, diminishing returns = A point beyond which the application of additional resources yields less than proportional increases in output. You are basing your analogy on your personal utility that your Yamaha HTIB gives you. If you feel that the increase utility from your HTIB to a pieced together system is minimal then that is your opinion. Hell, I can buy a $2 frozen pizza and it could give me more utility then a $15 pizza hut pizza because the cost is factored in to my personal utility. Also, the more audio components you can demo the more you appreciate QUALITY audio.If I was raised on frozen pizza then why the hell not right! What I am saying is that IMHO the amount of utility (pleasure) you will get out of a solid pieced together system is greater than if you would purchase a HTIB and the OP can make that happen with his budget.

[Ataneruo]

Well it looks like you guys are putting together a nice system for between $500 - $600, which is what the OP wanted, so the more power to you, that is wonderful. I will continue to be happy with my amazing HTiB for which I paid less than $500, and we will all have excellent audio experiences with our home theaters

[Kryptonic]

Buy seperately of course. You can piece a very good system including receiver, sub, and, speakers for around $800.

[BlackDevil]

Originally Posted by langn08

Firstly, diminishing returns = A point beyond which the application of additional resources yields less than proportional increases in output. You are basing your analogy on your personal utility that your Yamaha HTIB gives you. If you feel that the increase utility from your HTIB to a pieced together system is minimal then that is your opinion. Hell, I can buy a $2 frozen pizza and it could give me more utility then a $15 pizza hut pizza because the cost is factored in to my personal utility. Also, the more audio components you can demo the more you appreciate QUALITY audio.If I was raised on frozen pizza then why the hell not right! What I am saying is that IMHO the amount of utility (pleasure) you will get out of a solid pieced together system is greater than if you would purchase a HTIB and the OP can make that happen with his budget.

Yeah the truth is I don't need all 7 speakers, and according to you guys those energy speakers are much better than the one that come with the set.

And it looks like the receiver you picked out was a great one. Does it decode LPCM though? I guess it doesn't matter because the PS3 can right?

So I think I'm going with the following:

Onkyo TX-SR607 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver $320
Energy Take 5 Pack 5CH Home Theater Speaker System $179

All for a cool $499, thats Over $130 then I planned on spending! Thanks a lot guys!!

Now I just need a pair of speaker stands, and a sub.

[langn08]

Originally Posted by BlackDevil

Yeah the truth is I don't need all 7 speakers, and according to you guys those energy speakers are much better than the one that come with the set.

And it looks like the receiver you picked out was a great one. Does it decode LPCM though? I guess it doesn't matter because the PS3 can right?

So I think I'm going with the following:

Onkyo TX-SR607 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver $320
Energy Take 5 Pack 5CH Home Theater Speaker System $179

All for a cool $499, thats Over $130 then I planned on spending! Thanks a lot guys!!

Now I just need a pair of speaker stands, and a sub.

Good choice, you will not be disapointed with this. You will end up sending PCM from your PS3 (not bitstream) to your receiver for lossless audio. Keep us posted with the purchase!

[mugupo]

Buy them seperate, i got onkyo 9100 htib which is consider top of the line htib and i still not happy with it. The sub bass is way to weak and the front speakers isn't strong. Now i buy it seperate, yes it does take a lot of more time to research in speaker over htib and also cost more but no doubt it sound better and look better too. All my speaker is glossy black at top together with the receiver, a perfect match.

[BlackDevil]

Originally Posted by langn08

Good choice, you will not be disapointed with this. You will end up sending PCM from your PS3 (not bitstream) to your receiver for lossless audio. Keep us posted with the purchase!

Heres the email I got back from 6th Ave:

Your request for 1 Onkyo TX-SR607 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver - Black for $320.00 each has been counter offered with a new price of $374.00 each.

$50 more than what I hoped for but its still in my price range

[langn08]

Originally Posted by BlackDevil

Heres the email I got back from 6th Ave:

Your request for 1 Onkyo TX-SR607 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver - Black for $320.00 each has been counter offered with a new price of $374.00 each.

$50 more than what I hoped for but its still in my price range

hmmm that is wierd, try shooting them $360 and see what happens. Still a great deal for a 7.2 receiver with a lot of bells a whistles

[BlackDevil]

Yeah I just sent them $360 using another email addy, and I got an offer accepted.

I think I'll try $350 to push my luck

This is a great deal considering it retails for $650!

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Ataneruo

Well it looks like you guys are putting together a nice system for between $500 - $600, which is what the OP wanted, so the more power to you, that is wonderful. I will continue to be happy with my amazing HTiB for which I paid less than $500, and we will all have excellent audio experiences with our home theaters

+1. I have an HTIB myself--a $300 Sony, but it handles LPCM from my PS3 just fine, and as far as I'm concerned it's an excellent experience. (Of course, YMMV.)

I think the "go separate" folks forgot that the HTIBs in this price range (especially Onkyo & Yamaha) are just stand-alone AVRs packaged with speakers and other necessary parts. (Check the part numbers, especially Yamaha's; the AVRs in their $500-600 HTIBs are the same ones they sell stand-alone for a little bit less.) By buying them together, you don't have to guess if the speakers you want are appropriate for the AVR, or vice versa--especially with Yamahas (Onkyos usually come with inadequate speaker wire). Yet unlike cheaper HTIBs (such as mine), since the parts are designed to be interchangeable it's very easy to replace an inadequate part with something better later on.

[langn08]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

+1. I have an HTIB myself--a $300 Sony, but it handles LPCM from my PS3 just fine, and as far as I'm concerned it's an excellent experience. (Of course, YMMV.)

I think the "go separate" folks forgot that the HTIBs in this price range (especially Onkyo & Yamaha) are just stand-alone AVRs packaged with speakers and other necessary parts. (Check the part numbers, especially Yamaha's; the AVRs in their $500-600 HTIBs are the same ones they sell stand-alone for a little bit less.) By buying them together, you don't have to guess if the speakers you want are appropriate for the AVR, or vice versa--especially with Yamahas (Onkyos usually come with inadequate speaker wire). Yet unlike cheaper HTIBs (such as mine), since the parts are designed to be interchangeable it's very easy to replace an inadequate part with something better later on.

so if you spend $600 on a yamaha or Onkyo HTib that comes with a good receiver (that would cost $350-$400 to purchase separately) why not just purchase that receiver and spend the extra $250 on better quality speakers?

[Blu Titan]

I'll rather go for separates. If you buy a HTiB, you will soon wonder how the HT will sound with full size speakers, and a real sub.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by langn08

Good choice, you will not be disapointed with this. You will end up sending PCM from your PS3 (not bitstream) to your receiver for lossless audio. Keep us posted with the purchase!

Definitely. Though the specs as posted don't mention LPCM, they do mention TrueHD & DTS-HD MA. Although the "fat" PS3 won't bitstream them (so those decoders are useless for the time being), the presence of those decoders says the AVR *will* receive HDMI audio, as TrueHD & DTS-HD MA can only be bitstreamed over HDMI. Therefore, it should handle the "fat" PS3's LPCM output as well.

Though a few audiophiles insist bitstreaming HD audio is necessary for top quality, that mostly comes from the old-school rules of DD/DTS on DVD; they're still looking for the DD/DTS light on the AVR. Since TrueHD & DTS-HD MA are both lossless compression (like Zip files), it really doesn't matter for them whether decoding takes place in the player or the AVR; you get the same result--bit-perfect, multichannel LPCM--either way.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by langn08

so if you spend $600 on a yamaha or Onkyo HTib that comes with a good receiver (that would cost $350-$400 to purchase separately) why not just purchase that receiver and spend the extra $250 on better quality speakers?

If you *know* they're better quality speakers, fine--and that seems to be where this is going. But what if you don't know? Quality, like beauty, is often in the eye (or ear) of the beholder--just look at the fans of HD-audio bitstreaming.

Besides, from what I've seen I don't think your price differentials are always valid, though they proved to be in this case. From my past shopping experience in this range (before finding a cheaper HTIB that had everything I wanted), the AVRs in the $600 HTIBs often cost more than $400 stand-alone. But then, 6ave's "name your price" wasn't an option when I was shopping; that allowed the OP to consider more expensive speakers.

[progers13]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

Definitely. Though the specs as posted don't mention LPCM, they do mention TrueHD & DTS-HD MA. Although the "fat" PS3 won't bitstream them (so those decoders are useless for the time being), the presence of those decoders says the AVR *will* receive HDMI audio, as TrueHD & DTS-HD MA can only be bitstreamed over HDMI. Therefore, it should handle the "fat" PS3's LPCM output as well.

Though a few audiophiles insist bitstreaming HD audio is necessary for top quality, that mostly comes from the old-school rules of DD/DTS on DVD; they're still looking for the DD/DTS light on the AVR. Since TrueHD & DTS-HD MA are both lossless compression (like Zip files), it really doesn't matter for them whether decoding takes place in the player or the AVR; you get the same result--bit-perfect, multichannel LPCM--either way.

Shhh!!! Some of the regulars on this site will have your head for suggesting something so foolish.

[louisdamani]

From my experiences buying A/V receivers (depending on where you buy from). You can get a better price if you call and talk to an sale associate directly. I did it with my Yamaha 663 and so did my cousin with his Denon (both from JR.com).

[mugupo]

Originally Posted by BlackDevil

Yeah the truth is I don't need all 7 speakers, and according to you guys those energy speakers are much better than the one that come with the set.

And it looks like the receiver you picked out was a great one. Does it decode LPCM though? I guess it doesn't matter because the PS3 can right?

So I think I'm going with the following:

Onkyo TX-SR607 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver $320
Energy Take 5 Pack 5CH Home Theater Speaker System $179

All for a cool $499, thats Over $130 then I planned on spending! Thanks a lot guys!!

Now I just need a pair of speaker stands, and a sub.

Speaker stand is not cheap as you think, those easily cost like 40-50 a pair so you need 2 paid that would add cost of near or over 100. Get all in tower speker if you had room use that money of stand upgrade to full tower speakers. Polk Monitor 30 are really cheap tower speaker good for sorround and probably get monitor 70 for front.