Thoughts from someone who just returned an HD DVD player

[Ender]

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

Word on the wire has been that by fall of this year, the PS3 will have TiVo-like recording capability via a software download.

How will that work when the PS3 doesn't have any kind of a/v input? A USB adapter of some sort?

[GTP]

The OP is right as far as the general public is concerned, a lot needs to happen.

1 A lot more HD displays in homes.
2 One single format.
3 Player prices under 100.00
4 Software prices at 20.00 or less for new titles and 15.00 or less for most catalog titles.

[MasterXeus]

BTHURING
There’s nothing wrong with you’re choice. I would have waited for the war to be over too but I bought a PS3 and I did my research before buying my Blu-ray movies.

Here why I went Blu-ray over HD-DVD.

I think the biggest factor for me was Studio Support.

Blu-ray = Sony, MGM, FOX, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, WB
HD-DVD = Universal, Paramount, WB
New Line Cinema hasn’t release any titles has far as I know, but I believe I read they would be neutral.

Blu-ray has more studios which of course will equal more movies.


Hardware price is important, right now HD-DVD has the advantage, but this could change buy Christmas.

Hard Drive size is irrelevant to you. Are you talking about hard drive on players or Disc space? If Disc space, then it should matter to you, this is another reason why I sided with Blu. More Disc Space means you can have a better Picture and Audio quality. From my reason, I’ve read that Lord of the Rings Extended Edition in HD can fit onto one 50BG Blu-ray Disc. 30BG HD-DVD would not be able to hold the movie so it would have to be on Two HD-DVD.

Retail locations, most will not factor in the PS3 into there blu-ray player sells. I think the PS3 is the reason behind the Blu-ray movies are selling so well. I use a PS3 has a Blu-ray player, I would say right now I use the PS3 95% for movies. The money is in the movies not the players.

As you’re finding from retail locations and you’re independent video firm, Blu-ray movies are renting and selling better. Blockbuster last week or two said the rest of there stores are going to be Blu-ray only, they’re not going to rent HD-DVD movies.

Waiting for the war to be over and/or waiting for the price to drop on Blu-ray players is a smart way to go.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Price is imporant for many of us and currently HD DVD is the lowest price but I think you'll find that Blu-ray has some nice priced options come the later this year.

HD DVD players may well appear to be cheaper than BD players (but at least the cheapest BD player can do 1080p!), but for people buying their first high def player, that percieved cheapness is a false economy. When HD DVD finally admits defeat (and be honest, with the pummleing HD DVD is getting in the market, its demise is all but assured), all but the most ademant of HD DVD fanboys will have to buy a new BD capable player if they want to continue to enjoy movies in HD, negating any "savings" had by buying the apparently cheaper HD DVD player.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by richteer

HD DVD players may well appear to be cheaper than BD players (but at least the cheapest BD player can do 1080p!), but for people buying their first high def player, that percieved cheapness is a false economy. When HD DVD finally admits defeat (and be honest, with the pummleing HD DVD is getting in the market, its demise is all but assured), all but the most ademant of HD DVD fanboys will have to buy a new BD capable player if they want to continue to enjoy movies in HD, negating any "savings" had by buying the apparently cheaper HD DVD player.

This is actually fantasy. Don't let the HD DVD supporter in under my title fool you. I have no problems with supporting Blu-ray although I've been quite harsh regarding Blu-ray in the past. Consumer knows Toshiba and while some may not favor the brand everyone has grown up seeing Toshiba products in store so I doubt the "false economy" thing is going to hold sway.

I'll gladly buy BD..most likely in a Universal player even before the death of HD DVD but I will not be so blinded or myopic to suggest that price is not important. As a maxim "price trumps all" is right under "Content is King" in this battle.

The OP clearly is stuck in the middle...loves the price of the HD DVD but wants to content of Blu-ray. The logical thing to do here is simply to wait until Blu-ray is at a price point that is favorable.

He seems like a fairly centered guy I don't think diabtribes are what he's looking for.

[bthuring]

I think another main reason I returned it (and I'm having some remorse since I now know what I'm missing)is that when I was on Highdefdigest.com and looking through the forums they don't appear to realize that even their own arguments are persuading people like myself that HD DVD is close to being on life support.

Their argument that the Blockbuster announcement was irrelevant is based on a fallacy. Yes, very few people walk into Blockbuster to rent a video any longer. But "everyone" knows who Blockbuster is and probably has rented numerous VHS/DVD movies there in the past. Whether Blockbuster is still relevant is not going to matter to the average consumer. In their eyes a retailer with that much weight choosing a side is going to be a big factor.
Where most of the high def player info is almost impossible to find in a newspaper (or website), the Blockbuster name guarantees it will get attention in the popular media outlets.

This was followed by the Amazon/MS independent movie thing which the HD DVD people crowed about as if it were on equal terms with the Blockbuster announcement. I love independent movies, but I've quit even asking my friends if they've watched ____________. I would imagine 90% of people only want to see the box office favorites.

[hmurchison]

It's really hard for HD DVD to make up for not having the content of 4 Major studios.

It's doing surprisingly well but this is because

1. Price
2. Some people have a vendetta against Sony whether they have created a new format or product.
3. Various philosphical reasoning (anti DRM etc)

I find that many people you run into are simply unwilling or incapable of really just addressing the issue from another point of view. I'm a HD DVD supporter thus far...so what? That doesn't mean I can't recognize and acknowledge the advantage of what Blu-ray offers. Nor does that mean I will exert "my" will over others if they ask me personally for counsel.

I truly believe that you will be pleased with your options by this Holiday season. Summertime is slow and then things pickup with CEDIA (AV installers and such tradeshow) and then progress into shopping mania.

I may just be gifting some HD product if the pricing is right.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by bthuring

I think another main reason I returned it (and I'm having some remorse since I now know what I'm missing)is that when I was on Highdefdigest.com and looking through the forums they don't appear to realize that even their own arguments are persuading people like myself that HD DVD is close to being on life support.

This was followed by the Amazon/MS independent movie thing which the HD DVD people crowed about as if it were on equal terms with the Blockbuster announcement. I love independent movies, but I've quit even asking my friends if they've watched ____________. I would imagine 90% of people only want to see the box office favorites.

These two statements alone prove to me that you know exactly what you are talking about. No need to worry my friend. Stick around here, get some answers, and soon some new players at much lower price points that you should be more comfortable with will be available - along with a far greater selection of high quality HD content.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by GTP

The OP is right as far as the general public is concerned, a lot needs to happen.

1 A lot more HD displays in homes.
2 One single format.
3 Player prices under 100.00
4 Software prices at 20.00 or less for new titles and 15.00 or less for most catalog titles.

Getting a little silly there I think but you are directionally right. Many of those things didn't happen for DVD until the last couple of years, prices certainly weren't that low in the first 5 years and yet it gained mass adoption. These things all happen on various scales at the same time, but blu-ray will pick up serious steam long before you see players under $100. New titles can be had on Amazon for $19.99 right now in many cases.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Lord of the Rings Extended Education

I have to assume that you meant "Extended Edition" but that is still excellent to read as you've written it. LOL.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

He seems like a fairly centered guy I don't think diabtribes are what he's looking for.

Probably not, then again richteer didn't give you a diatribe, now did he? He basically said that while HD-DVD players may seem cheap, how cheap are they really if they end up being essentially useless? A "cheap" $299 spent is $299 wasted if they lose the war anytime soon.

Your condemnation of his post is unjustified.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Yes, very few people walk into Blockbuster to rent a video any longer.

Actually that is hugely incorrect. B&M rentals still crush online by a wide margin. Just because we're all early adopter types, don't let it cloud your view of reality.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

Yes, very few people walk into Blockbuster to rent a video any longer.

Actually that is hugely incorrect. B&M rentals still crush online by a wide margin. Just because we're all early adopter types, don't let it cloud your view of reality.

This is true. Somewhere on here someone posted a link to the actual numbers (too lazy to search at the moment), but it shook down like this:

Annual revenue 2006:

Netflx ~ US $1 Billion

Blockbuster ~ US $6 Billion

That is a huge disparity, and clearly Blockbuster is a far bigger player than Netflix.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

Probably not, then again richteer didn't give you a diatribe, now did he? He basically said that while HD-DVD players may seem cheap, how cheap are they really if they end up being essentially useless? A "cheap" $299 spent is $299 wasted if they lose the war anytime soon.

Your condemnation of his post is unjustified.

No offense truly meant mate

The OP returned the HD DVD player and provided sound reasoning why. So I don't think he's that oblivious to the situation.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

This is true. Somewhere on here someone posted a link to the actual numbers (too lazy to search at the moment), but it shook down like this:

Annual revenue 2006:

Netflx ~ US $1 Billion

Blockbuster ~ US $6 Billion

That is a huge disparity, and clearly Blockbuster is a far bigger player than Netflix.

Exactly, and the online rev for Blockbuster is still below Netflix and therefore less than $1B. I remember reading that Blockbuster's B&M rentals revs are more than 5X that of total Netflix rentals.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

No offense truly meant mate

The OP returned the HD DVD player and provided sound reasoning why. So I don't think he's that oblivious to the situation.

Agree you meant no offense but "diatribe" is a strong word and I don't feel richteer gave a diatribe.

Also you've again misread or misinterpreted things even in this small comment. I never ever claimed the OP was "oblivious" to anything. He made a decision that works for him and that's good.

Bottom line every customer is different. For me I think it's often silly when people get into these waiting games. If someone truly doesn't care, then they can wait forever until Hi-Def players and content are so cheap they just become the de facto replacement for DVD. For those comsumers the entire war is meaningless. However if you know that you really want HD content then what is your time worth? Everyone answers this for themsleves.

I often have this time-value argument w/ my wife who wishes we had waited to get the PS3 after this $100 price drop. Given that my son & I have played games or watched literally 1000's of hours of PS3 time then WTF do I care about $100? In fact, I could have overpaid by $300 and still it would have been worth it. It all depends on usage and how much you want something. A $60 game is expensive until you realize you've played it over 100 houyrs when it essentially becomes "free" entertainment.

[hmurchison]

Sorry.

Although I quote peoples posts I often don't intend every portion of my following commentary to be atributable to that person. I do see the confusion that it causes.

I totally agree with not waiting. I'm so glad I finally pulled the trigger and bought a HDTV and HD player. I've enjoyed it so much. Each person has to find their own justification and value for this stuff but I sincerely want everyone to enjoy movies and music.

You never know what a seemingly innocuous experience in life will become a cherished memory. I've been a victim of the desire to wait....wait ...wait myself. No longer.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

No offense truly meant mate

None taken! Coming from Usenet, one tends to develop a fairly thick skin. :-)

[Proteus]

Honestly...

Just get a PS3.

People talk about it like it's a 'gaming console' but it really isn't. It's a multi-media device on, by today's market standards, an epic scale. Having Internet, Wifi, all memory card types, USB, a swappable and highly expandable hard drive for storying digital media (i.e. photos, videos, etc.) all in HD, completely upgradeable firmware, and the _free_ Playstation Network that gives access to many theatrical trailers and additional content (and possibly full TV shows and Movies in the near future) all adds up to an insanely capable machine that is quite future-proof. It just happens to play games _really_ well. Don't judge it negatively based on it's gaming functions. . . They are bonus for the price. I bought mine for Bluray more than games originally (good games are really just now coming out for it).

With the new $100 price drop on PS3, making it $499, you can't beat the deal. At Amazon you can get the PS3, a Bluray player remote (which you don't need but is nice for your purposes of not caring for gaming controllers), five FREE bluray movies (at least over $100 in value right there), possibly still 2 more free movies if that special is still on, and maybe even a free game (Motorstorm in this bundle?)... All of that in that $499 price.

You may be right to wait things out if you are truly concerned, but as a marketing professional for over 15 years I can tell you that over four million PS3's already in the market makes a HUGE statement as to how many Bluray players are out there (with the price drop Amazon PS3 sales had a 2800% sales gain for a bit there so the number should go up quickly now). That gives HDDVD only 5-10% of the players out there even in a best case scenario. The only issue here is that Sony has done a rather poor job of marketing the PS3 as the multi-media device it is. Instead they have focused on the gaming aspects. My guess is they don't want it to cannibalize their feature rich standalones, yet (soon they will be cheaper than a PS3 and they won't care).

Finally, I don't know if you have family with kids that ever visit but you'll be their hero if you have a PS3 around when they come.

Good luck.

[The Don]

well, at least your on the right path....

and considering both HD DVD and Blu-ray forums biased is a pretty good way to go about things...

with high-def movies so early in it's stages still, I can see why alot of people don't want to jump in and probably should wait....

you obviously have done some homework and which is more than what I can say about alot of people making purchases in this department...