New unfinished basement - $30K fair or no?

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

If you haven't actually purchased the home yet, make sure you have the inspector check to see if it's PROPERLY waterproofed...... if not, you can probably add $10k for that aspect alone......

When thinking about going that route for our home, the estimate for waterproofing came in at $12k and was a deal breaker....... We were prepared to spend $10k just on digging the floor down an extra couple of feet, but for $20-$25k just to get the basement "prepped" for framing was way too much to make the project feasible.

We spent between $10-12K on waterproofing our basement. This included french drains, skim coat over our 1910 stone foundation, and a sump pump (we did not have one ).

Once that was done, I was able to re-finish our basement since I have a construction background. Growing up around the family business helps in many situations.

[ShootingBlanks]

What does this "waterproofing" entail? Is it even necessary if you're nowhere near a flood zone?

[Hammie]

There are numerous variations and anyone with a basement should be concerned.

Many homes with basements have been waterproofed on the OUTSIDE of the foundation (This obviously depends on the age of the home and the builder). This usually consists of a skim coat of cement and then a coat of black asphalt or tar. Additionally, on the outside walls you can run drainage that consists of perforated PVC piping, stones, and drainage pipes away from the house.

Interior water proofing can be as simple as DryLock paint or something similar to start. Sump pumps should also be a must as this will pump out any water that accumulates in the basement. French drains are used to catch water coming through the walls and direct it to a sump pump prior to moving across a basement floor.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

What does this "waterproofing" entail? Is it even necessary if you're nowhere near a flood zone?

Doesn't matter if you're in a flood prone area or not...... ground seepage (even from storm drains etc) can cause water to seep through the walls/floor. Even if it's not to the point of standing water, moisture causes mold, and you'll ruin your floors, walls, etc if it's not addressed.

Typical waterproofing would be someone coming out, excavating a trench around your home.... they put a pond-liner type thing in that water won't penetrate, or they put a tar/rubber type coating on the exterior wall of the house after it's been dug down to the bottom) .... then they fill it with gravel, and a large pipe that has holes in it, and they put a "Silk-Sock" over that so it doesn't get plugged up with dirt/stones/clay, and then there are drains (french drains often times) that will cause water on the ground to feed into storm drains etc that are directed away from the house.....

Sounds complicated, which is why it's not surprising that Complicated = Expensive!

EDIT:

Also, local building codes prevent us from being allowed to use sump pumps...... but that doesn't make water-proofing impossible.

[DougMac]

Originally Posted by jibucha

Future Proofing Your Wiring. l This would include accommodating for wiring changes over time, layout for any application, and equipment locations.

This is an excellent suggestion. All my system wiring is in electrical conduit. If for some reason I wanted to add/change, it's no problem. I also included drops for multiple subs, although I'm just using one now. All my front speaker drops are bi-wired.

The other thing I did that I've really enjoyed was to mount a rack system through the wall into the adjacent storage room. The rack system has a smoked glass door which keeps down light pollution from the indicator lights on the various components. It also keeps down fan noise. Making changes and adjustments is a piece of cake, all I have to do is walk into the storage room and everything is easily accessable.

[rthune101]

Take a look at my pics, I finished my lower level myself (bi level) for right around $10-12k (not to mention another 4-5k or so in electronics). I learned how to do many things along the way, I would definately change a few things now....the square footage in the lower level is about 1200. I had our home builder frame it before we took possesion, and I did the rest. Plumbing, electrical, heating/cooling, insulation, rock, taping/mudding, texture, paint, doors, trim, carpet/duraceramic......(theater/family room, 2 bedrooms and a bathroom, storage under stairs) But if you have the motivation, friends who can at least show you how to do something if you get stuck, and the funds to get started, go for it! And I would say $30k can definately get the job done, but that again depends on your taste.

[jurassic_pork]

I'll throw this out there (I can look up my specific numbers later if need be) but looking at the assumptions of having your friends help with labor I think the amount should work (that offset will help you in covering the costs for the equipment). We had our unfinished basement completed by contractors last year (over 1,000 sq ft) for everything framing, electrical, drywall, plumbing, permits etc... While I setup a room and pre-wired it for the surround sound I already had the rest of the AV equipment and TV so didnt have to spend money on it. We did go all out on the basement with flooring, crown molding...a wet bar with fridge and nice cabinets as well as a full bath. It became my man cave...of course as fate tends to do I ended up getting a good job offer and had to move away...now I'll have to go through it all again at our new place.

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by rthune101

I did the rest. Plumbing, electrical, heating/cooling, insulation, rock, taping/mudding, texture, paint, doors, trim, carpet/duraceramic......(theater/family room, 2 bedrooms and a bathroom, storage under stairs)

How "handy" were you prior to this? Like, had you done a lot of home improvement stuff and/or did you have a decent amount of prior knowledge/experience in all the stuff you mentioned above? Or did you really learn everything as you went, starting with slim abilities?

[Pondosinatra]

In Calgary, getting your basement done by one of the top renovators will run you around $75k.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Typical waterproofing would be someone coming out, excavating a trench around your home.... they put a pond-liner type thing in that water won't penetrate, or they put a tar/rubber type coating on the exterior wall of the house after it's been dug down to the bottom) .... then they fill it with gravel, and a large pipe that has holes in it, and they put a "Silk-Sock" over that so it doesn't get plugged up with dirt/stones/clay, and then there are drains (french drains often times) that will cause water on the ground to feed into storm drains etc that are directed away from the house.....

I can't believe this isn't mandatory for every house in the States...

Here we call it weeping tile.

[DonRSD]

i wish they offered basements in south florida

basement = HT ROOM ........the wife can keep the rest of the house

[Al Bundy]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

In Calgary, getting your basement done by one of the top renovators will run you around $75k.

I heard labor is really expensive that end of Canada.

[rthune101]

ShootingBlanks, I had basic knowledge before I began....had my father in law show me some electrical, which is very easy (until you get into 3-4way switches), heating and cooling was simple, just buy a round adjustable bit to cut through the tin, and you use your blank stud walls as cold air returns. Your cabling - cat53/cat6, coax, is pretty basic and standard. Plumbing is easy especially if you go with Pex tubing as it all gets crimped together, copper is easy as well - just test sauder a few peices if need be. I did my own taping with my brothers help, buy or borrow a banjo, makes the job go way faster. Mudding sucks....this in hindsight I would have hired out. Tedious crap in my opinion. Texture gun/hopper is cheap and again a real easy thing to do. Doors and trim I had never attempted, turned out to be ok...doors got heavy (6 panel solid maple) by myself. I had done my own carpet in the last few houses we've built...and duraceramic lays just like tile, and is warmer to the touch when placed on concrete. I did some of my reading on the web, most was just willing to try it....whats the worst that could happen. My biggest suggestion would be to design the room exactly how you want it, then start your build. I found this site after mine was already rocked....otherwise I would have changed quite a few things! Good luck, and ask questions, post pictures, and have fun with it!

[ShootingBlanks]

Awesome - thanks for the info, rthune!

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Timhortons

I heard labor is really expensive that end of Canada.

Well it's basically a matter of doing everything yourself or spending obscene amounts of money to get it done professionally. No one here can be bothered with small jobs.

You'll contact different companies for a quote and they don't bother calling back, or they'll schedule to show up at your place and then don't, or even when you've found and hired someone they don't bother showing up.

[Deadset]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

I should clarify...I'm sure $30k is "enough". I mean, there's so many varying levels of quality. But how decent of a room/setup could I get for that cost?

Thanks!

You can look over my basement thread (in sig) to see mine. I spent ~ 15k on ~1200 sqft.

Granted I did most of it myself. If hired out, it'd be more like 30-40K.

[BarkingGhost]

First, I think I am unclear from the original post if this project is just a portion of the basement to be used home theater, or if you are looking to a) finish the entire basement, of which b) you will outfit a home theater.

While pricing can vary from one geographic region to another, the size of the project (square footage), the scope of the project (whole basement, portion), and level of finishing treatment (level of detail), it can range quite large.

When I got quotes for my basement project (no HT included) it went from $32K to over $60K, to one oddball saying it started at $100/SqFt for my 1200 SqFt basement. These were quotes for hiring the GC to carry out the work.

DIY was not an option, but acting as a GC was. I spent $42K, no fixtures in the bath rough-in, but everything else is finished out. I already have the HT equipment (used in a temp HT elsewhere in the home), so aside from seating I should be good.

Mind you this was in the past 15 months and in an Atlanta suburb, but I think depending on where you are and how you carry the project out it could vary in costs quite big.

[kareface]

I just advised on a home theater build a little while ago. Here are the important questions, to what degree are you interested in making the room, more sound proof (less transmission into the rest of the house), more acoustically accuracy (reducing standing waves, room resonance modes, achieving ideal room dimensions for acoustics). The more you lean in the sound proofing direction the greater the cost. While most sound proofing solutions will help room acoustics, many will also hurt reproduction or are unnecessary for accurate reproduction.

[ShootingBlanks]

UPDATE SINCE MY ORIGINAL POST: The house has been bought!!!...it's brand new construction that will be finished for us to move in around April, and there's a nice big unfinished basement!

Originally Posted by BarkingGhost

First, I think I am unclear from the original post if this project is just a portion of the basement to be used home theater, or if you are looking to a) finish the entire basement, of which b) you will outfit a home theater.

It's only part of a basement (the basement is full and unfinished, but for the purposes of this project and this posting I am only concerned with the theater room). Here is a theoretical rough PDF of what I'm thinking about doing:

-- link removed - see updated post/link on next page of the thread --

I did this in Visio. As a description of what you're seeing, you can ignore the bathroom part of the diagram (it's just where the rough-in plumbing is at, so in theory that's where I'd do the bathroom project later down the road). What you see in the bottom right is a bar with a little bar-sink and three stools that I'd like to build. Next to that is the wiring/equipment closet. The things on the side walls are just possible DVD/BR shelves, and the thing in front of the closet is just a small table. The rest should be self-explanatory.

For reference, the width on that diagram is about 16' and the depth is about 32'. There are 9' ceilings. I think I'm gonna go even wider, though. There's actually a lot that's up in the air - I'm pretty flexible at this point.

Originally Posted by sentinel41

to what degree are you interested in making the room, more sound proof?

That is a very minimal concern of mine. I'm just mostly concerned with acoustic quality moreso than silencing the upstairs.

Thanks, everyone - come springtime I'm looking forward to starting my home theater construction thread!

[kareface]

To start, room dimensions. Ideally you want a room that meets the golden ratio design. They provide better acoustics then other room sizes. Figure out which of the 3 lengths will be the limiting one based on the ratio and correct the other 2 lengths with new walls and sound treatments. For the walls, you want to use 24" on center studs, if the studs are up against the cement leave a gap between them (the larger the gap the better). If you aren't worried as much about transmission you don't need to use mechanical decoupling but I would highly recommend (in this order) fiber glass insulation, acoustical caulking, green glue (at least 2 tubes per 4/8 sheet) with 2 layers of 5/8th drywall and mass loaded vinyl. Dampening the low end is very hard unless you do it during the building phase of the wall, which is mostly what is suggested above. If you build any platforms, sand is better then insulation but can be tricky to work with. If you have cement floors, using a subflooring system is nice, but at very least use thick carpet pad and shag or high pile carpeting. Use solid core doors, you don't need to go the full mile and get the overpriced thx certified doors. If you take a sheet of MDF or drywall and green glue it to the inside you'll be fine. If possible making a small entryway is better to reduce transmission but it won't hurt the reproduction if you don't have one. You can use some corrugated conduit to help future proof your room.

Things to keep in mind, if you use green glue, remember how thick the wall will be. Things like boxes for outlets need to be mounted so they are right at the edge of the stud. If you use in-wall lighting build small 5/8th MDF enclosures for the lighting and line them with a dampening foam otherwise you'll have huge gaps for sound to pass through. I know that your goal isn't transmission reduction, but this step can be done very easily and in conjunction with the other steps reduces the transmission greatly. Using heavy texturing on walls is good. It helps diffuse standing waves and broadens the sound stage. Don't carpet or pad the walls like so many others do. This isn't a recording studio, you don't want an rt60 of .1 or 0. Absorbing all the reflection will take all the warmth of the room away and make the room sound strange. Humans are accustom to some degree of reverberation, so aim for a .4-.6 rt60 instead. You shouldn't even worry about panels or traps till after the room is built. You can tune the modes after. I can help when you get that far.

People love hiding speakers, in columns, in shelves, in walls built for the theater, behind projection screens. The problem with this, unless a speaker has a crossover designed for it to be placed in a wall, doing any of what I mentioned above will hurt the reproduction of the speaker. Besides the speaker, the 2 largest factors in sound quality are going to be the room and the placement of the speakers. A 20,000$ speaker will sound like crap if you position it wrong. A 300$ speaker will sing if you can design the room and position it ideally. If you have a projector you can get away with hiding a center channel behind the screen (but if you have an option keep it at least 2 feet from the wall if possible), but don't hide your right and lefts. Acoustics shouldn't be secondary to aesthetics. If you are wiring for speakers try and keep your mains and subs (2 being better then 1) 2 feet away from either wall. I can do a more detailed layout if you care, based on the room dimensions.