T2 ROTF Audio Poll

[saprano]

Originally Posted by progers13

I read that. The reviewer says it's the definitive version to own because of the PQ, but then turns around and says the AQ is lacking by comparison. Um...so PQ makes it the best version, even though the AQ is significantly and noticably lesser??? Sorry, but AQ is every bit as important (IMHO) if not MORE important than the PQ. I haven't opened my copy and played it yet, but right now I am seriously debating returning it to get the "standard" version. Then again, if all it is...



...is Dial Norm and can be corrected by turning up the volume...? Can anyone elaborate / confirm whether the differences people are experiencing are the result of lower volume and not an inferior mix?

Its not because of DN, the imax version is not as powerful as the standard. if it was DN all you would have to do is turn the volume up.

[Sith]

Seriously did you guys expect top quality from Wal-mart,

Cheap quality yes, top quality, please...

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Sith

Seriously did you guys expect top quality from Wal-mart,

Cheap quality yes, top quality, please...

This has nothing to do with with walmart, they didn't mix the audio.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by saprano

This has nothing to do with with walmart, they didn't mix the audio.

Yeah but I'm sure they paid $$$ for the exclusive...And if the audio mix
is different than the other versions than obviously they got what they paid
for...And so did the customers..

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Sith

Yeah but I'm sure they paid $$$ for the exclusive...And if the audio mix
is different than the other versions than obviously they got what they paid
for...And so did the customers..

Again this has nothing to do with them. how did they know the audio was going to be weaker?

(Why am i even arguing about this)

[progers13]

Originally Posted by saprano

Its not because of DN, the imax version is not as powerful as the standard. if it was DN all you would have to do is turn the volume up.

That's my question. People are reporting it's Dial Norm and they are just turning up the volume to compensate. How do you know it's not Dial Norm? (Not trying to launch into an argument, I just genuinely want to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should return this copy before I open it - AQ is a deal-breaker for me).

[Red Pill 101]

Thought I'd chime in here:

I must say, I did have to turn the volume up on the imax version. I usually won't/don't have to go any louder than a 1-2 volume level for DTS-MA tracks. ROTF imax I turned the volume up to 10.

It sounded great regardless. Watchmen is another blu-ray that I had to crank the volume a bit.

I am bitstreaming via HDMI to a Sony 2400ES receiver.

[HDPlasma]

Originally Posted by progers13

That's my question. People are reporting it's Dial Norm and they are just turning up the volume to compensate. How do you know it's not Dial Norm? (Not trying to launch into an argument, I just genuinely want to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should return this copy before I open it - AQ is a deal-breaker for me).

Turning up the volume may get the Imax version to the same level as the standard version but there hasn't been a comparison that dynamic range/frequency is the same after a volume increase.

Hopefully someone does a frequency analysis or "sanity check" with their ears of the dyaminc range to determine if they are the same once the volumes are equal.

Also, those reporting their observations, please note the following to post info that can be compared to see if a pattern can be seen.

Receiver equipment:
Method used: PCM or bitstream
Connection type to receiver: HDMI, Optical or Coax

[saprano]

Originally Posted by progers13

That's my question. People are reporting it's Dial Norm and they are just turning up the volume to compensate. How do you know it's not Dial Norm? (Not trying to launch into an argument, I just genuinely want to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should return this copy before I open it - AQ is a deal-breaker for me).

Well i was going by what martin liebman said.

but it packs just a bit less punch when compared to the standard 2.39:1 release and at the same reference volume level and utilizing the same settings on the same Blu-ray playback device.

It cant be dialnorm.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by saprano

Well i was going by what martin liebman said.



It cant be dialnorm.

But, he didn't say that he adjusted the volume for the IMAX version. It could be that the regular version is dialnormed to 4db lower than normal. Then maybe somehow, the IMAX version got "redialnormed" or something so it's 8db below normal. If you set it up for the regular version, the IMAX version is going to sound quieter/weaker.

But I don't know, I am just tossing out ideas. I only have the IMAX version and I thought it sounded alright aside from the dialogue being quieter than normal.

[nightwolf2369]

I just got done watching it and yes I did notice it being a bit quieter than normal. I normally listen to stuff on my Yamaha about -15 db. I watched this at -9 db.

It did seem to get louder as the movie went on tho.

I bitstream from my BD player via HDMI just in case you were wondering.

[Rblu-Dblu]

When I saw this in the theater in Imax I remember the dialogue being a little low. I havent watched the blu yet but I'm going to assume there was a different audio mix for the standard release and the Imax release.

[Steve]

I'm currently using a PS3 (non-slim model) via HDMI to an Onkyo 605, which means I'm using PCM.

[JJ]

LMFAO @ Sith's viewpoints - truly, that could not be any more misguided. Good call, saprano. In any case - I did notice it to be a bit quieter - but in the end, can we not just up the volumes if indeed the whole thing was dialnormed? Frankly, it still packs a punch regardless.

And I'd be bitstreaming from a 35 to an 03. But I will say though, that as an audio track, there is still nothing that rivals Master & Commander's track for detail, clarity, and immersiveness.

[Rob J in WNY]

Bitstreaming from Sony BDP-S350 to Pioneer Elite SC-05, and no problems whatsoever. The audio on this release is reference-quality, and quite dynamic.

I have doubts that the audio was re-encoded just for the Walmart IMAX Edition.

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Rblu-Dblu

When I saw this in the theater in Imax I remember the dialogue being a little low. I havent watched the blu yet but I'm going to assume there was a different audio mix for the standard release and the Imax release.

And that's probably exactly why it is lower on the IMAX Blu-Ray as well. They probably had to have two different sound mixes because of the additional footage. How much it bothers you should be the determining factor of whether you return it or pass on it all together. Would you rather turn up the volume and get the IMAX scenes or get better sound and just skip the IMAX effect? Me personally, I'll stick with the regular edition I will have in a couple of hours. I wouldn't mind seeing the IMAX scenes once, but I'm more worried about having the movie itself. I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping the IMAX version if you are fine with how it sounds though.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Bitstreaming from Sony BDP-S350 to Pioneer Elite SC-05, and no problems whatsoever. The audio on this release is reference-quality, and quite dynamic.

I have doubts that the audio was re-encoded just for the Walmart IMAX Edition.

I have doubts myself just because it sounded so awesome on my setup! Granted I haven't heard master and commander, but the audio on this IMAX release was gold IMO. I'm sure though with all the complaints there is something to this. All I know is it sounded insane!

[ewsjr]

Two posts read in another forum:
This may not be the case here but as an audio/recording/engineering "enthusiast" I must point out that the non-IMAX version of TF2 may be a victim of the "volume wars" that is going on in the audio world these days.

What this essentially means is that the audio track is being compressed (not as in being converted to a file format) to push the volume up, and "normalize" the sound on everything. While upon initial listening this may seem like a pleasant experince (and when used properly it can be) as it makes everything seem more punchy and as if it has a bigger sonic impact.

What is actually happening is not really the case however. The truth is that over compression reduces the sonic impact. It will make whispers easier to hear and explosions not as loud all the while crushing everything against a "wall".

You lose definition. All the subtlties and nuances of a movie soundtrack such as shoes across a floor, someone dropping an ink pen, softly spoken dialogue, ect...and yes even explosions and gun shots will lose their sonic "weight" because of artificial and extreme amounts of compression.

All of this so people will not have to turn up their volume knobs. Please, movie studios, don't crush our soundtracks. The record industry has been doing this (and gets even worse every year) for quite a while now and look what it did for them!!!

I may be way off about this happening with TF2 but I would guess that is just may be the situation with the differing volume levels.
IMAX systems are multi-thousand watt powerful setups, where the 'scope version is designed for the multiplex. Dynamic range is obviously not going to be equal for both experiences.

This "one volume level setting fits all" approach by people just doesn't work.
That's simply not correct.. dynamic range doesn't change dependent on the power of a playback system...

It could very well be that if they are using the IMAX printmaster there were changes made during mastering that affected the relative balances of elements to make the IMAX version "wider" in terms of dynamics (i.e. lowered the mix stems 3db to start and pushed them to get "louder" in the bigger sections).. however, that still doesn't correspond to an increase in playback system dynamic range due to the increase in power.

IMAX Sound Systems Expalined

Quote:
Lynn McCroskey is President and CEO of Sonics Associates, a subsidiary of Toronto's IMAX Corporation. In an interview with Millimeter magazine, he explained the difference between the IMAX sound system and the surround systems in conventional theaters: "The typical IMAX screen is close to a conventional 4:3 aspect ratio, but much, much bigger. So you have a great deal of vertical, which gives you the opportunity to do a 'voice-of-God' loudspeaker." Another difference is the use of point-source surround, as opposed to the multiple small surround speakers used in conventional theaters. "Conventional rooms," McCroskey says, "come in so many different shapes that it is nearly impossible for them to make point-source surround work." Overall IMAX system power varies depending on the size of the room, but it is typically in the range of 12,500 watts. "The power is not there for the loudness," McCroskey says. "It's there for clarity and freedom from distortion."
.....so the plot thickens that maybe the IMAX version may be the better AQ because of better clarity and freedom from distortion as mentions above.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

But, he didn't say that he adjusted the volume for the IMAX version. It could be that the regular version is dialnormed to 4db lower than normal. Then maybe somehow, the IMAX version got "redialnormed" or something so it's 8db below normal. If you set it up for the regular version, the IMAX version is going to sound quieter/weaker.

But I don't know, I am just tossing out ideas. I only have the IMAX version and I thought it sounded alright aside from the dialogue being quieter than normal.

Somebody on AVS is saying something similar about dialnorm levels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=833

If it is 8db lower then wow.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by ewsjr

Two posts read in another forum:

Thats first one was actually from this site, it was posted by painted klown in the TF2 thread.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2573