Sigh... HD DVD promotional group FUD

[aaronwt]

Originally Posted by Blu-dock Saint

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4627245&EDATE=

Is it just me or are they getting more desperate, theres no way these numbers are correct, well at least by Nielson numbers. What are they going to say next, there is no such thing as blu ray?

Did you read the article? It talks about percentages. HD DVD had a bad 1Q since there were very few releases. So it makes since they would have the increase stated. BD also sold alot of titles in 1Q so it would be believeable that it had a 5% drop in 2Q sales if the 1Q sales were as good as the BD group says. We need the actuals figures to be sure but the statistics seem reasonable.

It's all percentages. You can spin them anyway you want if you have the data to back them and i'll bet the data they used does indeed show the percentages listed.

[The Big Blue]

and Blu-ray software sales were down 5 percent

Translation: We got our ass handed to us 5% less than Q1

Left unsaid: And we're still selling approx. half as many discs.... even though our attach rates give us woodies.

[aaronwt]

Originally Posted by The Big Blue

Translation: We got our ass handed to us 5% less than Q1

Left unsaid: And we're still selling approx. half as many discs.... even though our attach rates give us woodies.

Probably true. At least the percentages seem realistic if people would actually read the release.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

It's all percentages. You can spin them anyway you want if you have the data to back them and i'll bet the data they used does indeed show the percentages listed.

And include or exclude the PS/3 when convenient.

How much down were PS/3 sales Q2 over Q1? If "overall" BD sales are down only 27%, how big was the increase in BD CE player sales?

Gary

[theknub]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Probably true. At least the percentages seem realistic if people would actually read the release.

please explain how that:

overall HD DVD hardware sales were up 37 percent from Q1 to Q2 2007

and that:

dedicated HD DVD CE players experienced an astounding 183 percent quarterly increase

make any sense in the world

i know the add-on would not be considered dedicated, but would that mean a negative number of add-ons would have to be sold to lower the hardware numbers? 'cause we all know, no one else is making hardware.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Did you read the article? It talks about percentages. HD DVD had a bad 1Q since there were very few releases. So it makes since they would have the increase stated. BD also sold alot of titles in 1Q so it would be believeable that it had a 5% drop in 2Q sales if the 1Q sales were as good as the BD group says. We need the actuals figures to be sure but the statistics seem reasonable.

It's all percentages. You can spin them anyway you want if you have the data to back them and i'll bet the data they used does indeed show the percentages listed.

These numbers are so fudged to produce a specific result that they are meaningless. Do you really think they intend these to be clear and give an honest picture of the situation?

They never, ever include PS3 as a player when talking total numbers, but when they want to show a sales unit decline then suddenly it's in. When they want to talk about attach rate then suddenly it's in. You can NOT have it both ways if you want to have a consistent argument. They have only smoke and mirrors.

[kjack]

Jiggle the numbers until you find a positive message, then issue a quick press release in case bad news might happen the next quarter. Perhaps it will help the bad news to not happen or lessen the impact. Happens all the time.

BTW, I hope they realize that the BD marketing campaigns have barely started....

Now regarding HD DVD or BD drives in laptops. Is it just me, or wouldn't that be primarly used to play movies that you already own?

[aaronwt]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

No offense but you've never really done data analysis, have you? These numbers are so fudged to produce a specific result that they are meaningless. Do you really think they intend these to be clear and give an honest picture of the situation?

They never, ever include PS3 as a player when talking total numbers, but when they want to show a sales unit decline then suddenly it's in. When they want to talk about attach rate then suddenly it's in. You can NOT have it both way if you want to have a consistent argument. They have only smoke and mirrors yet you defend the charade. Weak.

And how is this different than when other statistics are cited, especially during elections. It's always slanted one way or the other depending on who is presenting the data.

I'm quoting this from AVS

Originally Posted by Grubert

Considering that Q1 sales were:
BD 832,530
HD DVD 359,300


We could be looking at the following for Q2 (totally apocriphal figures ahead):

BD: 791K
HD DVD: 431K

Which scans for 67%/33% YTD (SI doesn't work out but what can you do...)

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

And how is this different than when other statistics are cited, especially during elections. It's always slanted one way or the other depending on who is presenting the data.

I'm quoting this from AVS

So you are saying that you think political statistical spin is accurate or that it's acceptable to do that? Because I think we are trying to filter out the spin and get to the truth. Or is that not your intent?

Just checking your motivation.

PS - It's probably worth noting that Toshiba has enacted it's heavy price cuts and HD-DVD giveaways in 2Q and that PS3's price drop began in 3Q and, as we know, the weekly figures for early 3Q are ugly for HD-DVD. It's also probably worth noting that you make no mention of that alongside the stats that you quoted... intentional?

[buckshot]

why doesn't sony counteract these things with ''blu ray hardware now numbers in the 5 million components area which has helped software sales take a substantial leadover the competition.''

or

''all 6 million playstation e consoles can will and do play blu ray hardware''.

I say they fight dirt and fud with THE TRUTH.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by kjack

Jiggle the numbers until you find a positive message, then issue a quick press release in case bad news might happen the next quarter. Perhaps it will help the bad news to not happen or lessen the impact. Happens all the time.

I'll be looking forward to the announcement later in the week of the massive increase in HD DVD player sales thanks to the $99 offer.

Originally Posted by kjack

BTW, I hope they realize that the BD marketing campaigns have barely started....

I'm not sure Graffeo is in the same universe as us. He may be communicating from a parallel dimension where HD DVD is succeeding.

Gary

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by buckshot

why doesn't sony counteract these things with ''blu ray hardware now numbers in the 5 million components area which has helped software sales take a substantial leadover the competition.''

or

''all 6 million playstation e consoles can will and do play blu ray hardware''.

I say they fight dirt and fud with THE TRUTH.

Or be cheap and fight dirt w/ dirt. Quote the hardware numbers including PS3 which is a total landslide and then quote BD's far superior attach rate by excluding PS3. This is how they would play it.... installed base of 5MM vs 0.5MM (10X) and an attach rate 4X higher (roughly twice as many standalone HD-DVD players and twice as many BDs sold than HD-DVD movies... ergo, 4X attach rate).

Obviously this is just rough math (anyone who wants to supply the real data go ahead and I guarantee it's still ugly). Bottom line, they have to massively skew the data to make it look even. Meanwhile if the blu-ray side applies the same tactics it's a whitewashing.

[Blus Brother]

Originally Posted by The Don

sometimes these companies will angle anything in their favor...

like how they exclude PS3 sales in regards to blu-ray players....

BUT DON'T THEY IN FACT PLAY BLU-RAY MOVIES?...this kind of logic confuses me....but I am not the one who is confused ahah..

the HD DVD people say they are blowing Blu-ray away in unit sales (excluding PS3) while the BD group judges the war by movie sales....

this is like the direct tv commercial that says "Direct TV HD will be able to hold up to 200 HD channels".....but don't the stations have to be broadcasting in HD first?...

or "Direct TV HD picture quality outperforms cable 4:1"....what the blank does this mean?....

HD DVD is a joke, but I have to agree that cable does not compare to direct tv - all channels are digital on direct tv, and even though they call it digital cable - most of the channels are not digitally broadcasted.

[Branden]

HD DVD owners will have close to 1,000 titles worldwide to
choose from by the holidays

sure, maybe if you round to the nearest 1000. no, wait, still wouldn't work. round UP to the nearest 1000.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by theknub

please explain how that:

and that:

make any sense in the world

i know the add-on would not be considered dedicated, but would that mean a negative number of add-ons would have to be sold to lower the hardware numbers? 'cause we all know, no one else is making hardware.

*cricket* *cricket*

[theknub]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

*cricket* *cricket*

i was thinking the jeopardy theme song

something along the lines of "doo-doo"

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by theknub

i was thinking the jeopardy theme song

something along the lines of "doo-doo"

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by theknub

please explain how that:

and that:

make any sense in the world

I'm not saying this is accurate, but:

Q1: 10000 CE players + 40000 add-ons
Q2: 28300 CE players + 40200 add-ons

28300/10000 = 2.83 (+ 183%)
68500/50000 = 1.37 (+ 37%)


Gary

[theknub]

u got me gary

now that it is theoretically possible (of course something bothers me even though it looks right) we need unit sales numbers now

[GasCat]

Thanks for proposing a few numbers.

They still don't include the PS3. The most popular "standalone" device on the market. There are people who use it only for movies. To say otherwise is assinine.

The biggest problem is there are few journalists like Bill Hunt who are willing to use logic to help consumers decide which one to get. Its sad that free speech is being bought so easily.