Pioneer Elite oh how I love thee (delay comes with a pricecut)

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Sony1

You got what you wanted JTK

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?i...sort=1&start=1

Damn! Well thanks for the info Sony1.

[theknub]

from http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?i...sort=1&start=1
Electronics firm Pioneer have announced today they will be delaying the launch of their Blu-ray DVD player, which was due to be released in North America this month. Blu-ray is the next-generation DVD technology from Sony.


Pioneer has been a vocal supporter of the Blu-ray technology, which is in direct market competition with the HD DVD format. The new player will be delayed until the autumn in North America and a delay in development was cited as the reason.

can't they get this right? it's not from sony!

ok, thanks for the link sony1. however, why is this the first we are hearing of it? why isn't it on bigger sites etc? while it is linked and in print, why have we not seen an official announcement or anything? not trying to discount the source, just trying to understand why we haven't seen more about it.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by theknub

can't they get this right? it's not from sony!

It's not a DVD format either!

ok, thanks for the link sony1. however, why is this the first we are hearing of it? why isn't it on bigger sites etc? while it is linked and in print, why have we not seen an official announcement or anything? not trying to discount the source, just trying to understand why we haven't seen more about it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20060606/tc_zd/180142
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...archived=False

Same basic tiny article everywhere.

[theknub]

Originally Posted by nyg

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20060606/tc_zd/180142
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...archived=False

Same basic tiny article everywhere.

booo! thanks for stealing my thunder. i'm gonna go tuck my tail and cry into my pillow.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Sony1

You got what you wanted JTK

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?i...sort=1&start=1

Good.

With this kind of delay, I need to see confirmation of AT LEAST having the back door opened to obvious futureproofing issues like HDMI 1.3, 1080ps, and all the HD audio codecs. I really hope they use this extra time very well.

On paper, if someone wants to spend the big money, this player should be the one that they can ride past that every so scary first gen/early adopter phase if they so choose.

[zombie]

Thanks JTK, you jinxed it. No seriously, if Pioneer makes the player better during this delay it'll be well worthwhile.

[zombie]

The Pioneer delay comes with a pricecut:
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6341596.html

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

The Pioneer delay comes with a pricecut:
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6341596.html

Good. That matches it with the Panasonic.

This also means the street prices become that much more compelling.

Excellent move!

Originally Posted by nyg

Thanks JTK, you jinxed it. No seriously, if Pioneer makes the player better during this delay it'll be well worthwhile.

It needs to be.

I think this needs to be the one player for sure that's as "futureproof" as can be.

[Health Nut]

Oh well, I suppose it was best not to get tempted to spend more money on a player that will likely get replaced within a year. I can't wait until the PS3 comes out to have Blu Ray capability, so what's left for June/July? Samsung? That will likely be a $1,000 turd... but I hope not. Any other choices?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Health Nut

Oh well, I suppose it was best not to get tempted to spend more money on a player that will likely get replaced within a year. I can't wait until the PS3 comes out to have Blu Ray capability, so what's left for June/July? Samsung? That will likely be a $1,000 turd... but I hope not. Any other choices?

Not known at present, past rumors of a Sharp player, a non Elite Pioneer player, maybe a JVC player and possibly even a Mitsubishi player before year's end or early 07 thereabouts.

Key word again: RUMOR.

[Dr Kain]

What the hell gives them the reason to make their "Elite" so expensive? Unless it can cook and clean for me, it ain't worth it.

As for the PS3, sorry, but using BR as its excuse does not justify its price tag. NO video game system is worth even more than $300. I love my 360, but it taught me that much.

[suprmallet]

I've used three different Pioneer Elite DVD players, and they really are top of the line. They have just about every hook-up out there (including iLink), and the image quality on them is only topped by the best of the best Denon player. If you're putting a home theater together on a budget, this is not for you. But I would be more than happy getting a Pioneer Elite BD player that utilizes HDMI 1.3 and basically not having to buy another BD player again for 5 to 7 years.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

What the hell gives them the reason to make their "Elite" so expensive? Unless it can cook and clean for me, it ain't worth it.

$1500 MSRP is the lowest I've ever seen ANY Pioneer Elite player come out. Considering the bleeding edge technology and build quality? I don't have any serious problems with that price tag, especially when I know it'll mean street prices south of $1200.

Here's where I hit the breaks, though: For a FIRST GEN player...the Elite and the Panasonic, both at this high price tag, need to be the most future proofed. THESE need to be players that don't have to be replaced in a year or two. Use whatever criteria you need to in your mind to fill in those blanks.

If THAT criteria were met, I'd even pay MSRP without hesitation.

But I have SERIOUS doubts that criteria will be met, even though I think it SHOULD be given the delays.


I also think part of the Elite's price tag has to do with the networking capabilities that I, and probably many others, couldn't give a fig less about.

As for the PS3, sorry, but using BR as its excuse does not justify its price tag.

No offense, but you're making a series of ignorant statements here.


This statement doesn't make sense. Look at BR and what it is. Technically, they're losing their shirts potentially on this price tag.

I really can't believe I can get a first gen BR player for $500-$600. That's how I view the PS3.

NO video game system is worth even more than $300.

That's your opinion. I don't think it's correct.

I love my 360, but it taught me that much.

I don't have any problems with the 360 Premium at $399, considering all you get out of the box and when you consider inflation: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/643/643170p1.html

That holds even true for the rest of this tech.



I think Sony's biggest gamble and potential mistake here is best summed up in the words of both Ken Kutargi and Howard Stringer himself last week in the WSJ:

This idea of the PS3 being more than just a game system.

That ideology has NEVER worked yet in the console gaming world.

The PSX was a horrible bomb for them in Japan, of all places, where Sony usually can do no wrong. Same ideology and concept all the way.

Once you start hearing this "more than a game system" talk, the red flags should be going in the air.






IMHO, Sony should have kept BR out of the gaming console world for at least another two years. Bring out a $399 matched PS3 that's at least equal if not superior to the Xbox360, keep your primary core audience in mind, which they have NOT done, and move forward from there.

If BR took off, you find a way to fuse it and add it on later and then ultimately have game devlopers move along with it.



As a bonus item: Bring out a $700-$800 PSX like home theater/geek PS3 with BR and all the rest of it.

That's what I feel they should have done. I just can't see the average gamers looking at a minimum of $500 for the PS3 and going for it when they see the Xbox360 and the same kinds of games and the same performance.

It's going to be YEARS before we see games on BR that exceed what you can get on the 360 right now.

That's the gamble.


It reminds me a lot of the 3do. It also reminds me a lot of the PSX in Japan. These are not good things.

The talk. The approach. Possibly being ahead of its time. The prohibitive cost.

The key difference for the PS3 obviously is software support. The 3d0 never had jacksquat in that department and that's what killed it.

The 3d0 could have enjoyed a nice niche status like the Neo Geo did (and arguably still does) if there had been more software support.

But the parallels to the 3d0 on the surface of this thing can't be ignored.

The failure of the PSP and the proprietary UMD format is also something that has to be considered when taking in the big picture.

Originally Posted by suprmallet

I've used three different Pioneer Elite DVD players, and they really are top of the line. They have just about every hook-up out there (including iLink), and the image quality on them is only topped by the best of the best Denon player. If you're putting a home theater together on a budget, this is not for you. But I would be more than happy getting a Pioneer Elite BD player that utilizes HDMI 1.3 and basically not having to buy another BD player again for 5 to 7 years.

I'd gladly pay full MSRP of $1500 or possibly even more for a player that met the criteria you just spelled out.

I know it'll never happen.

[suprmallet]

Wait till 2nd or 3rd gen and see what Pioneer (and hopefully Denon) turn out. It could very well happen.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by suprmallet

Wait till 2nd or 3rd gen and see what Pioneer (and hopefully Denon) turn out. It could very well happen.

Indeed, but I thought you were referring to strictly first gen hardware.

[suprmallet]

Since I mentioned HDMI 1.3, I figured it was clear I didn't mean first-gen.

[Psiweaver]

The pioneer will be the best of the lot. The Elite stuff is very nice and there dv-79 product was better than the similar denon player. I can't wait for some truly high end players though. The pioneer will be supporting 1080p so you shouldn't have anything to worry about in that regard. The rep has also said that it should be dts compatible but that he couldn't guarantee that. The sony player will most likely be garbage becaue they are no long an innovator and will probably just follow the heard on this one. Sony's upconverting players have thus far been crap too. I'm personally going to wait for 2nd or 3rd gen players before purchasing one so I don't have to deal with the agony of future upgrades.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

The pioneer will be the best of the lot. The Elite stuff is very nice and there dv-79 product was better than the similar denon player. I can't wait for some truly high end players though. The pioneer will be supporting 1080p so you shouldn't have anything to worry about in that regard. The rep has also said that it should be dts compatible but that he couldn't guarantee that. The sony player will most likely be garbage becaue they are no long an innovator and will probably just follow the heard on this one. Sony's upconverting players have thus far been crap too. I'm personally going to wait for 2nd or 3rd gen players before purchasing one so I don't have to deal with the agony of future upgrades.

The Sony ES players are pretty nice. The ES 3100 in that middle ground tier of $500 is fairly solid. I'd easily take it over any Denon in that price range. Especially when the ES line gives you a 5 year warranty right out of the box.

Sony should have made their BR player an ES model. That would REALLY sweeten the pot for that player.


I'm not a big Denon fan. I think they're overrated and overhyped, especially on one or two very prominent forums.

Ideally, I'm shooting for Pioneer Elite or Onkyo/Integra 9/10 times.

[The Don]

on the PS3 topic....the only problem I have with the BD player being included is the fact that you have to spend at least 500.00 because of the BD player...

I'd be fine with this...and would get the 600.00 one with no problem.....

but, BD isn't set in stone...HD DVD can beat it out if customers stay misinformed and think they are getting a BD player when they buy a HD DVD player and on top of that....they think every movie will come out on HD DVD because it's DVD....

look at it this way...

the average customer thinks HD DVD is exactly what it says....Hi Def DVD player....

and when they hear Blu-Ray....they think it's something else comparable to DVR or something unnatural.....and then they see the price tag....

the ignorance of consumers could easily propel HD DVD into the throne of the HD realm for movies...

and if Sony loses this war...I will kick myself in the rear for buying a PS3 for 500 bucks mostly because it has a BD player....

I don't want a 360...it looks like I'll get the Wii and play the waiting game on the HD DVD/BD player I want....and I hope BD wins....all logic points to them winning....but when you're dealing with the average customer...logic goes out the window...

[suprmallet]

Look at it this way: All the games will be on BD for the entire life of the PS3. Plus, even if BD goes under and HD wins, you still can watch any and all BD movies on your PS3. Plus, if BD really does go under, then you will see plenty of combo players pop up (just like the combo LD/DVD players you see), so if your PS3 breaks, you'll still be able to play the BD movies.