The BDA did something stupid and comments like these make you wonder...

[Achilles3]

I don't see why the big debate over this.

[U4K61]

No complaint's about my PS3 purchase. It's the Blu-ray player I can recommend with a clear conscience to friends. There is no 'only if I waited' with its firmware updates. The double edged sword of progress: On the one hand we want something new to come around, but then hem and haw when next years model has features that makes obsolete the one we own.

[Clark Kent]

The "finished format" stuff was basically just another talking point Amir used heavily in his HD DVD propaganda against Blu-ray. It's amazing how many HD DVD fanboy arguments boil down to talking points that Amir created.

Of course if Blu-ray hadn't released when it did we would all be declaring HD DVD the format war winner. The BDA did what it had to do for Blu-ray's eventual success. Pretty much everyone knew that without the threat of HD DVD in the marketplace we probably would have waited another year for Blu-ray to release.

[mystiksuicide]

The movies will play and the day you do have to replace your player 4-6 years from now well all the movies you bought will still be there with all those features.

In other words no big deal.

[unreal1080p]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Pretty much everyone knew that without the threat of HD DVD in the marketplace we probably would have waited another year for Blu-ray to release.

NO. Without HD DUD, Blu-Ray would have still been released in 2006... November 2006 in the form of the PS3.

As it stands, Blu-Ray came out 6 months earlier in order not to yield too much market share to HD DUD and to stop many consummers from making a decision due to having dual formats out there (better a format war then DUD all alone in the market).

Another thing that killed HD DUD is the fact that they were supposed to launch in 2005 and did'nt. I'm pretty sure that was a MAJOR factor in Paramount and Warner deciding to support both formats rather then just DUD (Warner & Paramount started as DUD only).

Fall 2004 (Oct-Dec) was a crucial period for HDM as studios were choosing sides: FOX, Disney going Blu + MGM bought by SONY... while Universal, Paramount and Warner were going DUD. Also at the same time, news of the PS3 being based on Blu-Ray was circulating and Toshiba were trying to convince Microsoft to use HD DUD as the optical drive for their upcoming Xbox2 (Xbox360 now). Thank God Toshiba failed in that endeavour.

Very interesting OLD Business Week press release from October 2004 entitled "First Blood in the new DVD war" about Warner, Universal and Paramount going DUD and calling it a "severe blow" to Blu-Ray... little did they know...

http://businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnfl...5297_db002.htm

DUD was initially going to launch hardware in "early 2005" which then got pushed to "September 2005" and then pushed to "in time for the Xmas 2005 holiday shopping season". None of this happened but, because of those claims, Hollywood studios were gearing up with titles for DUD and 72 HD-DVD titles were supposed to be available for Xmas 2005 (from Paramount, Warner and Universal). Toshiba dangled the Q4 2005 sales carrot to the Hollywood studios and were able to con Paramount, Warner and Universal into joining their camp. Since most of these titles had to be ready to go to production and many probably allready had... when Toshiba delayed HD DUD once again, the coned studios had no choice but to stick with them considering they had allready invested for a supposed Q4 2005 launch. In Spring 2006, Warner and Paramount told Toshiba to screw themselves and decided to also release their movies on Blu-Ray... Universal was the sole DUD donkey in spring 2006 prompting the vast majority of Blu-Ray fans at the time to predict January 2008 CES as the date the sole Donkey would capitulate and announce Blu support to end the war... turns out we we not very far from the truth after all

The war was won in the Fall of 2005 when 2 crucial events happened:

1) The CrapBox360 launched without an HD DUD optical drive built-in
2) HD DUD failed to launch their format in time for the lucrative Q4 2005 sales period and by doing so relenquished their head start against Blu-Ray to only a few weeks when they finally launched in Spring 2006.

Everything else since then (XMAS 2005) has been the slow, painfully annoying, inevitable countdown to the death of HD DUD. This is why many of us cary such hatred of HD DUD and the DUDDERS because we KNEW DUD would fail before it even launched --> I seriously thought Toshiba would come to their senses and never launch HD DUD and was flabbergasted and incensed when they went ahead with it anyway. After all, Sony when fighting for the original DVD standard were man enough to realize they were beat and accepted that their techonology and certain specs be integrated into a single unified DVD format... why could'nt Toshiba do the same with Blu-Ray? The answer is most likely Microsoft and that's another reason why I dispise them (Microsoft). The end result is that NONE of their technology (neither Toshiba or Microsoft) will be included in the final format and they will never collect a dime from it = too bad suckers! Now we need to push Blu-Ray to overtake DVD so Toshiba feels the pain even more in the form of deminished royalties

[Ispoke]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

To me that looks like nothing more than anti-Blu-ray propaganda made by a HD DVD supporter trying to smear Blu-ray. Nate Mook has been posting pro-HD DVD articles on betanews for a good while so I wouldn't believe any of his negative claims against Blu-ray unless he had some evidence for them. Also note that the only quote in that article that has a name attached to it is the quote from Andy Parsons who said more than the bit that Nate Mook mentioned.......

Spot on and worth reiterating.

[WickyWoo]

It's just a pile of spin. The entire thing. Note the lack of direct quotes for the really damning stuff, and how the Uni "sticking with HD DVD" report is worded

[invictus]

Sounds like this is someones first time as an early adopter. I've been bleeding edge on many electronic devices, it hurts the pride and the wallet sometimes, but if you research and look at the market reports you can avoid most baths.

[scott1256ca]

The comments themselves are not that unreasonable, but betanews, who frankly has little credibility in my view is the one spinning this to be anti blu-ray.

I am so sick of this "BD wasn't a finished spec and HD DVD was BS". The two MOST IMPORTANT things in the spec are the disk capacity and the bitrate, and BD got both of those right, and HD DVD got them both wrong (see note). If betanews was unbiased, there might be some mention of that.

note: I say that because with longer movies, BD is the only format to consistently offer high PQ and lossless audio (in some format). HD DVD managed that in very few instances.

second note: The one thing both formats got wrong, and for BD there is little excuse, is they should have used 10 bit grey scale depth: 16-235 isn't enough .

[nails]

Hey this is how war works. This is the exact same thing Sony had to do with the PS3 vs the 360. The PS3 wasn't planned for release till xmas 07. However Microsoft shoved out the 360 so fast, sony not only were nowhere near completion, but had to start rushing to release the system within a years time so 360 couldn't grab too much next gen market share (which they did). It's amazing how much difference a year makes on the game market. Since launch it's just been a buildup to a better standard. Obviously Microsoft was so interested in immedate market share of next gen systems, they released their system the second one turned on! Thus resulting in the great 360 bricking of 05-07 lol, not to mention that they didn't have time to integrate a next gen disk format in the system. All they wanted was to get the system out, and to start grinding developers on the better games that always come out a whole year after the system's launch.

Like this is the year the PS3 gets it's uber game run. Microsoft keeps re-releasing the xbox over and over causing people to do step upgrades and buy the system again and again. PS3 owners don't have to buy anything extra, it's all there baby, just firmware updates. The lack of games officialy ends this year. Sony's patience will pull through in the long run, and their system will dominate the market. (and the Wii doesn't count cause it's a toy).

[gvortex7]

Even though it is true that Blu-ray came to the market a little bit prematurely, and it would have benefited from further refining and fine-tuning it's features and functions before being released, but the BDA didn't have the luxury of time given that Toshiba has already released their first HD DVD player three months earlier. Also, waiting a few more months to lunch their own player technology could have had grave consequences for Blu-ray because that could have given HD DVD an insurmountable lead within this so-called format war.

Still, no PR statement should ever diminish the role that early adopters play in deciding and dictating what technology or format will be adopted by the mainstream buying public. They are the ones who are willing to shell out a large amount of money on products that are often unfinished (as far as final specs are concerned), imperfect or just plain and simply full of glitches. So in essence, early adopters are necessary for the survival for any new technology.

[galz]

The facts are they are now going after the average shopper, NOT the early adopters. The early adopters are already there. The average shopper will not care what bandwidth and bitrate is, all they want is the functions on the disc they bought to work. It will make a difference and sugar coating it to make it seem like it is no big deal won't change that.

If it's no big deal why are the insider's no longer calling it profiles? Why are they coming out with stickers to try to educate the consumers?

It does make a difference.

[maconomics]

The BDA sentiments may have been a little thoughtless, but I think it was generally the truth! I have a PS3 and this year I will purchase a BD player. The PS3 will do all the wonderful things that new models are capable of with firmware updates. The only thing I want my new BD player to do is to basically play movies in highdef.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Frankly that is a terrible statement no matter how you break it down.

They make it sound like it's the direct fault of the early adopters, and that they (the BDA) owe no apology for these issues to those who bought into the format early, and not only are they not apologizing, but they are essentially giving us the finger in the process.

Speaking as a Blu-Ray early adopter, I find this at least somewhat offensive.

With all due respect, are all of you "Blu-Blind"? So many of you are brushing this off like it is nothing and no one should be concerned about it. I mean, it's one thing to like Blu-Ray, have it, enjoy it, and consider the superior of the two formats. But when an issue does arrise with either the format itself and/or the people/companies behind it, is it that hard to say that aspect sucks? I can appreciate the format overall while being able to still say "that sucks" when some aspect of it indeed sucks.

I honestly think most of you who are saying this is "no big deal" are full of it. If there was some fairly big change in the HD-DVD spec, and Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp were to have released a similar statement with the same kind of negative undertone, you all would be having a field day about it right now, talking about how they don't care about their customers, and using it as another reason as to why Blu-Ray is better. Don't deny it.


While I do give the BDA a little credit for being honest, I think it would have been easier to have said something like:

"Unfotunately we were not able to have the final specs available when the format launched. That would have been ideal, but we were unable to do so, and we needed to launch when we did to compete with other HDM options.

While older players will not be able to utilize some of the new interactive features that will included on newer Blu-Ray disc releases, the movies themselves and many other bonus materials will still be playable as they always have been.

As time goes on and the format grows and becomes a common part of many households, people will likely want to add more players to other rooms of their houses. In doing so, they will be able to purchase newer players at lower prices that will be able to fully take advantage of all of these features. They can install their newer player that can utilize these features in the room where they do most of their moving watching, and can move their current players to other locations where movie viewing isn't as frequent, but convenient when wanted."

Now, I just came up with that off of the top of my head. It probably would need some modification before being good enough to be the finalized statement, but it pretty much gives you the same honest approach without the "You were an early adopter, and F-you if you don't like the changes" undertone that came with the statement that they actually released.

[w_tanoto]

who cares? I got PS3 which is upgradeable to profile 2.0

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by w_tanoto

who cares? I got PS3 which is upgradeable to profile 2.0

Way to think about only yourself and nobody else.

I would think the few hundred thousand people who have stand alone players as opposed to a PS3 would care. And I say this as someone who also owns a PS3 (but only after having a lot of problems with a stand alone player... the only redeemable aspect of which is that I didn't pay any money for the problematic player since I received it for free as an award where I work).

[Geech]

I got a PS3. (No Wories)

[saljr]

Opportunity doesn't wait for you. My opinion it was a good move on BDA. Can you image if BDA come out 6 month or year later. It would of have really confuse the public.

[WickyWoo]

Now, I just came up with that off of the top of my head. It probably would need some modification before being good enough to be the finalized statement, but it pretty much gives you the same honest approach without the "You were an early adopter, and F-you if you don't like the changes" undertone that came with the statement that they actually released.

Except they didn't release that. Partisan red ants parsed that because it's what they wanted to hear.

I'll tell you flat out. No one working the BDA boot hat CES would say anything like that. They are HAND PICKED for the job because they've proven themselves good at it in other places.

I'll be willing to bet $20 that if we went to the videotape, then you'd see exactly how it was manipulated

I mean really people, we've had 2 years of the red camp spinning and lying to discredit blu. They've lost both their arms and a leg, and are preparing to still try to bite Blu's leg's off. What makes you think they'd stop now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

[Theo Cupier]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

This will only appear controvesial to former HD-DEAD fanboys who seem to value extra features and internet connectivity more than picture and audio quality, and who think that a new format can suddenly come out and immediately be completed, ready and cheap for the masses.

Excellent. I'm converting from HD DVD to Bluray. Can you list for me all the BD players, which can decode DTSMA & TrueHD and unzip Uncompressed PCM onboard and send it to my amp via 5.1 analog?

I don't care about interactive features, just PQ and AQ which should be easy, right?

Incidentally, having watched all the chest beating about how HD DVD buyers have only themselves to blame for "buying too early", I'm a little confused about the opinions in this thread.