Blu-ray - What a major disappointment

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

a player with glitches resolved already, players in abundance from every mass merchandiser nationwide, now they bundle three HD-DVD's with every player sold, will be introducing their 1080p player, the X2A before Christmas, a second generation player, with zero issues and including HDMi-1.3 to boot !!!

Interesting, talk about biased.

1) If you mean HD A1 it is far from resolving all glitches. Having had that and refurbished Sammy I can honestly say Sammy is better. After applying respective frimware upgrades to both. Faster boot time, no lockups whatsoever (which still persist on HD A1). And at lest Sammy can resume playback correctly after stop

2) Out of curiosity, how do you know that yet unreleased XA2 which I also plan to buy has zero issues? Matter of faith I guess?

3) U fail to mention that new player with 1080P will cost the same 1000$ as BD players, and actualy more than Samsungs, since those are 800$ or cheaper now. 1080i player is the same tho... Despite the promices that firmware upgrade would fix that issue.

4) U also neglected or forgot that there are already 3 different BD players on the market, Samsung, Phillips and Panasonic. With few more scheduled for next 3 months. Ok there are delays, nobody is happy with those, but on HD DVD side there is NOTHING else that Tosh. Which is going up in price for all I can see. (prooves the point that 1st gen was heavily subsidized I think).

5) Also "forgot" that G2 Tosh players are delayed by now

6) You failed to mention anything positive that happened in BD camp. Be that DL discs release (which was vaporware according to all HD DVD fanboys until the evry day it got released, yet 60gb HD DVDs of course are very real and sitting in Toshiba's basement till we get movied that need them), improved transfers and PQ.

Apparently far as non-biased and objective aproach goes to BD, U and that Murchison dude are on the same level. I am surprised he didn't chime in already with yet another HD DVD hallelujah..

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by Gastown

New to this forum but not the HD DVD/Blue Ray Format war. Thought I would join this forum and get some perspective.

Pardon dude, but this place isn't meant to be HD DVD / Blu Ray format ware arena. As it is most of the folks here come to discuss BD related stuff, outside of format wars. If you want to engage in format war there's plenty of other forums. Other than that UR more than welcome to discuss BD

Regarding this post when you mentioned "what else is there?". What about the 360 add on and the fact that its supported by M$ which could buy and sell sony 100 times over?

M$ didn't support internet back then in 90s, said it was irelevant and, no money in it and so on. Eventually in 2003 on PDE B.G. said that was a stupid mistake and a bad decision (which they stubbornly stuck with for a while). So, just the fact M$ does it, won't mean much. Unless they disable BD drives in all Windows PCs, which won't happen.
For the rest, MS still depends on the Studios to make movies and produce dvds.

[phloyd]

The release of HD DVD was very delayed. It was announced at CES 2005 to be released for Xmas.

CES 2006 ... no HD DVD. How embarassing.

Yet they eventually released something and people hated the player.

After a few fixes to the players people were more enthusiastic and it appears the delay/poor quality player was forgiven and even forgotten! Now it appears that they did everything right and BD did everything wrong...?

For what it is worth, my Toshiba player is far from perfect. My Panasonic player is also not perfect but it works in a number of ways that the Toshiba either does not or does not reliably.

In any case, if people can forgive and forget the delays and issues with the HD DVD launch I think it is not hard to imagine the same for BD. These next couple of months are not a lot of time in the whole time frame for these advanced formats. With the promising titles that BD has coming out, I think that they are in pretty decent shape going forward.

But finally - imagine this - how would it have been if HD DVD had released on time in December 2005? Perhaps if they had been on time things could be very different...!

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Gastown

Is it reasonable to assume that someone who buys a 360 add on is more likely to buy a HD DVD then someone who owns a PS3 is to buy a BD tittle? That logic comes from that fact that a 360 add on only serves one purpose...to watch HD DVD. At this point by all accounts Add on preorders are through the roof.

While that is true, the entry costs for a person who owns a 360 is much higher than someone who owns a PS3. The 360 owner has to shell out $200 to watch HD DVDs, while the PS3 owner already has a Blu-ray player.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Gastown

Regarding this post when you mentioned "what else is there?". What about the 360 add on and the fact that its supported by M$ which could buy and sell sony 100 times over? Not to mention that regardless of Toshiba's marketing plan M$ has a large budget to promote this format. I think its reasonable to assume if M$ really doesnt want to loose they have the power to put a big fight.
Is it reasonable to assume that someone who buys a 360 add on is more likely to buy a HD DVD then someone who owns a PS3 is to buy a BD tittle? That logic comes from that fact that a 360 add on only serves one purpose...to watch HD DVD. At this point by all accounts Add on preorders are through the roof.

Until you know what the available numbers are for pre-sale it means nothing. Amazon could have 1,000 units available for pre-sale, how does that compare to the 400,000 Blu-ray players that are about to be sold in North America alone in two weeks?
M$ have managed to show through HD-DVD that their VC-1 encoding is a reliable and quality codec, to the point where it is now being used on [some] Blu-ray discs - they don't lose either way.
They have not released games on HD-DVD.
They have not released software on HD-DVD.
Sony could not be bought out by M$ 100 times over. Don't confuse Bill Gates' net worth with Microsoft - you completely miss how many companies Sony owns.

[JimPullan]

I am not an advocate of HD-DVD, nor do I expect them to survive long term. I was simply venting my frustrations over all these delays. Too tell you the truth, I have 12 of the BDP-S1 presold and these customers have been waiting since August, not wanting a refund back, but they are treating my company like it were Sony, calling constantly, wanting to know the exact date they'll get there players. DAILY FRUSTRATION, theirs and mine, finding its way here on our Forum.

Sorry for venting emotions !

Jim

[BTBuck1]

"OH NOES, TEH SKY IS TEH FALLING!!one11!"

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I think the momentum is clearly back on Blu-ray's side (has it ever been on HD-DVD's side?) with several recent BD quality releases: <..snip..>

You forgot the 8 channel, DVD-Audio playing, Panasonic available now, that's a biggie for a lot of us

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

"OH NOES, TEH SKY IS TEH FALLING!!one11!"

Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Originally Posted by JimPullan

I am not an advocate of HD-DVD, nor do I expect them to survive long term. I was simply venting my frustrations over all these delays. Too tell you the truth, I have 12 of the BDP-S1 presold and these customers have been waiting since August, not wanting a refund back, but they are treating my company like it were Sony, calling constantly, wanting to know the exact date they'll get there players. DAILY FRUSTRATION, theirs and mine, finding its way here on our Forum.

Sorry for venting emotions !

Jim

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3089

^^ Good question in that thread title.

[GaS]

Looks like an LG announcement.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvdpvr/0,390...9284932,00.htm

[JTK]

Originally Posted by GaS

Looks like an LG announcement.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvdpvr/0,390...9284932,00.htm

Well, how 'bout them apples?


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=27160

[Knight-Errant]

Hang in there Jim. The major waiting period is over. Would be silly to give in to frustration when we're this close to the PS3 *EVENT*, the arrival of the Sony/Pioneer players etc.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by GaS

Looks like an LG announcement.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvdpvr/0,390...9284932,00.htm

LOL.

So much for LG "rumors" about an HD-DVD player!

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

LOL.

So much for LG "rumors" about an HD-DVD player!

nobody but toshiba and m$ are gonna do a HDDVD player unless BD fails miserably....which just isn't going to happen, especially after the 17th.

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by Knight-Errant

Hang in there Jim. The major waiting period is over. Would be silly to give in to frustration when we're this close to the PS3 *EVENT*, the arrival of the Sony/Pioneer players etc.

Thank you, I'll do my best. I appreciate your words of encouragement, even in light of my blunder sharing how I felt here on the Forum. I guess few here shares my sentiments expressed, which is fine, I just consider personally attacking a person's character to be tacky, especially from people I respect.

Jim

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

Thank you, I'll do my best. I appreciate your words of encouragement, even in light of my blunder sharing how I felt here on the Forum. I guess few here shares my sentiments expressed, which is fine, I just consider personally attacking a person's character to be tacky, especially from people I respect.

Jim

Jim what seems to happen all to frequently is that you lose your cool and get all emotional about this stuff. Try and be more objective and not get caught up in the emotion. If I could do it over again, I would have bought the samsung player long before I did, and saved my self the money and done without HDDVD all together. As the only reason I now have for owning it is Universal pictures, which they could eventually make decision to go BD. The day that happens (if it does), my HDDVD player and all movies go on EBAY. Why hold out anymore? there are great players out now...so they don't do Tru HD(over-rated) or DTSHDMA....sheeeit, full bit rate DTS is plenty good for me. And LPCM 5.1 is the best sound available anywhere and it's in every BD player and most BD titles support it. Anyone here can attest to M:I-3's DD track being probably the best audio they've heard and it's a lossy codec, but you know what? I don't care what it's called because it sounds friggin amazing!!! and blows away constantine, troy & batman's truHD tracks and this is just dolby digital (bitrate unknown).

HDMI 1.3? why even worry about this, when the spec will change again in a year or two. I'd jump in now and stop torturing yourself. but hey, thats just me.

btw, watching Total Recall as i type this, and the DTSHD track downsampled to DTS through my samsung is shaking the house and sounds crystal clear. and the picture is awesome considering how old this is especially. This is a spot on transfer IMO.

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Jim what seems to happen all to frequently is that you lose your cool and get all emotional about this stuff. Try and be more objective and not get caught up in the emotion.

Your right. Thank you [Jim]

[Josh]

I think we're done here. Closing up.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

Thank you, I'll do my best. I appreciate your words of encouragement, even in light of my blunder sharing how I felt here on the Forum. I guess few here shares my sentiments expressed, which is fine

Hey Jim, you're not the only one somewhat frustrated with the delays and such. I'll be the first to admit that the Blu-ray roll out hasn't been as smooth as we'd like and things could have been done a little better (Like insure the first week titles looked freakingly no fault amazing, etc) but you have to remember that Blu-ray is not only a new format, it's totally updated technology that has just started to be manufactured, while most of the HD-DVD is a refinement of DVD in a sense. I remember not long ago HD DVDs (AODs) were gonna be red laser based and in only 720p and they have done the most to squeeze everything they can out of it to survive, while the Blu-ray camp is just getting started. With the internet's lightning pace, and a competing format fighting to the death for survival, we might go impatient at moments thinking, "oh why don't Sony et al release 300 titles tomorrow and 10 players and put an end to all this!" but it can't happen that way. Maybe if the Sonys and Pioneers were released rushed they'd have lots of problems and that would certainly spell doom for the format. As you know only fools dare rush to where Angels fear to thread in . In fact, I find it amazing that we're at almost title parity with HD DVD (nearing a 100 titles released in slightly more than 4 months) with all the problems (real and FUDed) the lone for a long time Samsung, and the discs, had, and if you've seen my list, the announced titles have grown far far more, it's only a matter of getting solid well functioning players onto the buying public and slowly it'll gather its own steam. Right now a Blu-ray supporter w/o a player is going: "Do I buy the cheaper Samsung or Phillips, Or do I wait for the Sony 1080 24p? Or maybe I just should go buy the Panasonic, but it's more expensive. Mmm will I be able to get the PS3 for cheap in 2 weeks?" etc etc . It's kinda like the wait before the hurricane that slowly approaches comes. I'm also amazed that on the HD DVD camp, it's all been Toshiba as only choice for a long time and apart from the gamer add-on, it's still the only choice. The obviously focused release of great titles there is what has kept that ball rolling and supported, but if Warner had done simultaneous BD releases of their remaining non BD yet titles, that wouldn't have worked that well. Last time I checked there were just a few titles from Universal that might interest me too and you know they are trying to release as much great stuff as they can to salvage the HD DVD market. The Blu-ray camp is doing things at a more secure, leisure pace (they might feel they have a long future to plan ahead?). Nevertheless, it must be frustrating for you as a dealer and as an audiovisual person since you have to deal with your own frustrations and anxiety plus that of your clients at the same time! I know I drive my local Suncoast nuts telling them "When are you gonna get me this title? It's on my released list you know. Blah blah blah" . I'm almost certain that by next Halloween you'll be even laughing about this wait and transition to the High Definition era.