I question the durability of the disks

[thunderhawk]

About the durability... They said CDs would last for 100 years...
Some recorded CDs are loosing data after 5 years. :shock:

I really question the 50 years given by Sony...

[Xad]

This is in regards to how many years CDs/DVDs last.

If you have a home video (on DVD) and you wished for it to be passed on from generation to generation, would that mean that you would have to duplicate it every few decades in order to prevent it from data loss/damage - even if you weren't using it but instead had the CD/DVD in a safe storage place?

Just something i was wondering about for a while :lol:

[thunderhawk]

I also wonder if the companies who say the durability of their discs are 10 years etc... If they put their own valuable data on the discs for long term storage... :? :?:

[CathodeRayTube]

well it looks like we WILL definatley get our cartredges...because the photo on the main page of https://www.blu-ray.com is of a player with a disc CARTIDGE hanging out of it.

now ...the real reaon i came here is to talk about ROT...ever since the first lazerdisc was made back in the 70s....optical discs have been suffering from lazerrot/CDrot/DVDrot ...and most likely BDrot...

disc ROT being when the ultra thin aluminum/gold corrodes away after so many years . if air gets in its accelerated....in dual layer DVDs there can actualy be a galvanic reaction between the 2 metals (gold and aluminum)causing them to eat themselfs away.

i have had several of the 12 or so CDs iv bought in my life do this and become full of pinholes/coffie like stains no matter how good i took care of them...iv run into several DVDs from blockbuster that had this too...and as of last week ALL of the CD-RWs i bought for my computer have degraded beond use...pinholes....one of wich i never even used that was still in the shrink wrap was full of lil pinholes...and several plain CD-Rs have done it too...

we have VHS tapes that are going on 30 YO and music tapes that are allmost 40 YO and they play and look fine...

how suseptible is BD to rot??? what is the actual constriction of the disc? i know that the data is on the bottom...but what metal is being used for the reflective surface??

would the discs be immune to rot if they used stainless steel , mylar or even murkury or somthing?? :? :shock:

[Patrick]

The reason that picture keeps coming up is because its an early picture of a Blu-ray player when it still used and needed cartridges. Then TDK made Durabis and now they dont and wont use them. Cartridges will hurt Blu-ray cause very few people want them and the hybrid dvd with Blu-ray would be of no use and the transition from dvd to Blu-ray would be very much damaged and hindered. Blu-ray is being more widely accepted and will be more widely accepted only without the use of cartridges.

[CathodeRayTube]

how do you know its an erley picture...if it was than they wouldent be using it in the ads/news that was poasted less than a week ago.

it will hurt blu ray if they DONT use cartridges...and most of the people iv seen here while browsing thru the threads do want them.

and the drives/media dont have to be backwards compatable with dvd/cd , hybrids are a great idia for cars but for movie discs its just a white elephant idia.

if people want to play BDs they can buy a player just for that, it dosent have to be able to play dvds and CDs too.
just like people have a seperate VCR and a DVD player or a combo with 2 diferant slots, not everything has to go in the same hole/slot

i wouldent mind buying a player with 3 slots VHS ,DVD/CD and blu ray .

same with PCs ...if you want a BD drive , you can install a seperate one next to the CD/DVD drive, aloast all PCs have atleast 2 five inch drive bays.

they could however verry eseley make the players/drives backwards compatable with cartridge DVD-RAM.

and like i have sed befor...bare discs ,durabris or not, are still verry tedious to handel and will still require regular cleaning of fingerprints ,dust ,peanut butter,snot,engine oil,semen,chocolate,butter,syrup,blood,milk,jam,so ap,soup,dogshit,cookie crumbs,hair,lint,candle wax,cool whip,kool aid and all the other crap that gets on them no matter how well you try to keep them clean.

the bottom line is that cartidges will NOT hinder or cripple the widespread use of blu ray. they will do just the oposite.

just because its "accepted" dosent meen its what people actualy want.

nobody reely anserd my ROT question...is this like an evil little secret were not suposed to talk about?? disc rot...

[Patrick]

No, if Blu-ray is to win then it has to play current dvds without a combo drive. People have purchased alot of dvd movies and not many want to have to buy them all over again in High def or have to have 2 different players. Blu-ray will be more accepted if people can just start buying either straight Blu-ray or hybrids they can play in dvd players till they can switch to a Blu-ray player. And again this picture your talking about is old, I have seen it for over a year now and it was older at that time. Look at all the pics of recent players and recorders on this sight and you wont see it there. It just keeps getting used over and over. Cartridges will NOT be used.

bare discs ,durabris or not, are still verry tedious to handel and will still require regular cleaning of fingerprints ,dust ,peanut butter,snot,engine oil,semen,chocolate,butter,syrup,blood,milk,jam,so ap,soup,dogshit,cookie crumbs,hair,lint,candle wax,cool whip,kool aid and all the other crap that gets on them no matter how well you try to keep them clean.

If you are careless enough to get anything other than finderprints and dust on them then you deserve to have to buy a new one. Everything you named outside of the 2 I mentioned are the more retarded things I have ever heard to get on a disc, I mean what are you diong with your disc, using it for a cleaning towel. Cartridges are not widely accepted and is a bad idea, if Blu-ray were to stray from bare disc they would lose their support and never have a chance of being the format. Bringing them out of the cartridges is what has given Blu-ray the boost to where it is, along with the copy protection. None of the companies are producing a cartridge based player and they wont, because the know what the outcome would be. And the disc will not rot, that would take years and years and you would have to really just leave them outside in the sun or dirt for that to happen, if you take care of them they will last a long long time.

[Patrick]

Oh and look at the Blu-ray media on this sight just above forums. All the media is bare disc, there are no cartridges and there will be non. Heres a quote from an article I found based only on the facts and history or Blu-ray.

Because the Blu-ray standard places data so close to the surface of the disc, early discs were susceptible to dust and scratches and had to be enclosed in plastic caddies for protection. Such an aggravation, the consortium worried, would hobble Blu-ray's adoption in the face of the rival HD DVD standard; HD DVDs can be handled bare (caddyless) like CDs and DVDs, making them familiar to consumers as well as attractive to manufacturers and distributors who might be deterred by additional costs.

The solution arrived in January 2004 with the introduction of a clear polymer that gives Blu-ray discs unprecedented scratch resistance. The coating, developed by TDK Corporation under the name "Durabis," allows BDs to be cleaned safely with only a tissue--a procedure that can damage CDs, DVDs, and (presumably) HD DVDs, which are manufactured by the same process as these older optical media. Bare BDs with the coating are reportedly able to withstand attack by a screwdriver.

While it is not compulsory for manufacturers, the Blu-ray Disc Association recommends that Blu-ray drives should be capable of reading DVDs, ensuring backward compatibility.

JVC has developed a three layer technology that allows putting both standard definition DVD data and HD data on a BD/DVD combo disc. If successfully commercialized, this would enable the consumer to purchase a disc which could be played on current DVD players, and reveal its HD version when played on a new BD player.

[CathodeRayTube]

"No, if Blu-ray is to win then it has to play current dvds without a combo drive. People have purchased alot of dvd movies and not many want to have to buy them all over again in High def or have to have 2 different players. Blu-ray will be more accepted if people can just start buying either straight Blu-ray or hybrids they can play in dvd players till they can switch to a Blu-ray player."


ummm...lets go back in time to 1998... DVD took off like a rocket even tho the players and discs were totaley differant and incompatable with VHS tape.

DVD dident "play" with VHS in 1998 and blu ray wont have to "play" with DVD in 2006.

and people wont have to buy all ther movies again on BD , if ther DVD player breaks...they will still be selling plain old dvd players in 2010 . just like they still sell VCRS now, so nobody will be stuck with old technoagey or be forced to use new technolagey.

and the movie studios should have a trade in program so people can just pay for the new media itself and not pay anymore licencing fees for the same movie. that would be fair.

im still rooting for cartridges...and if they arent going to be....i simpley wont buy any....the same way i have boycotted DVD for the same reasons.

and they will rot im allmoast certen...we were told that CDs and DVDs wouldent rot and were indistrictable and would last forever....why would BD be any differant.

its a shame to see that nothing is being built to last anymore just for the sake of saving money. its becoming a disposable world. kind of sad realy...

[Patrick]

What are you some type of a nut or what? Trade in? Cant see why that would be fair to the studios, what will they do with all those old dvd's. Thats the most insane thing I have heard here so far. I can tell you that you wont be buying any movies then cause cartridges wont be used and the copy protection will be in place. You know I have a few cd's from over 15 years ago and not one has rotted or broke, You must not take care of anything you have.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Patrick

What are you some type of a nut or what?

Please do not resort to namecalling.

You know I have a few cd's from over 15 years ago and not one has rotted or broke

I too haven't noticed any disc rot on any of the over 1200 CDs I own. I have dozens from the 80's and haven't had any problems whatsoever.

[Alex Pallas]

disc rot makes the disc change color is that right? i have had this happen to a few of my cds, and a whole slew of cheap cdrs

[CathodeRayTube]

they dont all do it...onley about 10% and its because they cut corners to save money thus macking low qualety discs. and yes it shows up as coffie-like stains and discloration and pin holes.

and to patric....its not fair to the consumer to have to pay for the same movie over and over again. paying for just the new media itself would be compleatley fair. anything els is just a rip off.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by CathodeRayTube

its not fair to the consumer to have to pay for the same movie over and over again. paying for just the new media itself would be compleatley fair. anything els is just a rip off.

No one is forcing you to buy the same movie again and again. If you're happy with VHS or DVD then by all means keep being happy with your current movie collection. Nothing wrong with that. I OTOH, welcome technology and in fact crave the day I can re-buy my favorite movies in HD.

[CathodeRayTube]

you must have verry deep pockets then... :shock: :?

[Patrick]

OK, sorry for the nut or what comment, I just got frustrated. I agree with n2blu, if you like your dvd's and dont want to buy them over in High def, oh wait, you said you are boycotting dvd so you must not have many of those. So why are you arguing about the studios giving you a deal? You want them to trade in all those disc you pirated or what? Well anyway, they arent going to do that, thats why they made the players play both dvd and Blu-ray dvds, and why they are creating hybrids.

[Alex Pallas]

Originally Posted by n2blu

No one is forcing you to buy the same movie again and again. If you're happy with VHS or DVD then by all means keep being happy with your current movie collection. Nothing wrong with that. I OTOH, welcome technology and in fact crave the day I can re-buy my favorite movies in HD.

i love getting remasters myself but there are some movies in my collection that i am sure will never be in print again, such as my Criterion version of Salo
see the price tag: http://cgi.ebay.com/Salo-ORIGINAL-DV...QQcmdZViewItem

so i save movies like this to my harddisc, because if anything happens i know i'm not getting a remaster, also i don't think i could go on in this cruel world without some of my rare yakuza. the most popular movies that tend to get remastered are not always the most well done films

[joel_reed]

Caddies are far superior to anything else on the market ... long live cartridges!

[zombie]

Originally Posted by joel_reed

Caddies are far superior to anything else on the market ... long live cartridges!

You've made your preference for caddies well known. Please don't bump old threads just to say it again. Thank you.