Gotta decide, PLEASE HELP!

[deewheezy]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

If you use a 16:9 screen, then yes, you will always have black bars above/below the image for scope material. However, is you use a scope screen then you will always have white bars (unused screen real estate) to the side of the screen for 16:9 or 4:3 material. Whether one or the other bothers you (if at all) is an individual thing. This can be addressed with a masking system for the screen for the variable aspect ratios. For a 16:9 screen, you could use a Carada Masquerade to mask off the black bars. For a scope screen, there are variable side masking schemes that can be used to mask off the white bars (Stewart Filmscreen, SMX, etc). These all add to the expense-- particularly side masking systems. Or you can rig up a DIY masking system with curtains or somesuch.

As Deci mentioned, the two ways of doing scope are the zooming method and an anamorphic lens (horizontal expansion or vertical compression) with either v-stretch and/or horizontal compression modes. The zooming method is the cheapest method, but requires zooming/refocusing your projector every time you change aspect ratios. The lens method is more eloquent and convenient, and does increase the light output of your image (without the "black bars") by about 10%, but does have the trade offs of introducing another lens element into the light path, reducing the MTF and ANSI contrast. However, this is not a big issue with the better lenses out there, with the ISCO III being top of the heap (~$8k), and what you get in the end is a unique, more "theater-like" experience at home. I would highly recommend that anyone thinking of setting up a serious FP system see a scope setup in action.



www.carada.com
www.dalite.com/dalitehometheater/index.php
www.smxscreen.com
www.stewartfilmscreen.com

Carada makes excellent, affordable screens. DaLite's High Power is a very popular, high gain, retroreflective screen (glass beaded). [biased]SMX CineWeave HD is one of the best acoustically transparent screens out there, as well as a great all around screen-- I have one myself [/biased]. Stewart's StudioTek 130 is an industry standard and their FireHawk G3 is one of the best screens out there for ambient light situations, but Stewart is known to be the most expensive screen out there.

wow thanx brain, that all makes much more sense now and ive made a few decisions.

a) i'd rather have one screen that can do it all (i.e. scope screen) and have white bars then waste image hieght on a 16:9 with black bars.

b) definitely cant afford an anamorph lens and i can definitely live with for this, my first home theatre.

c) with my plan of using a curtain heavy curtains to frame the screen i can easily adjust them to cover the unused parts of the screen when not displaying a scoped image.

d) lastly, im really beginning to consider a DIY screen. never thought i would but it seems pretty feesable. that way i can have a cine-scoped, framed. "100+ screen without taking away from the budget of other slightly more crucial aspects. like DOPE def tech speakers!

can anyone help in the DIY screen department? links, success stories or even colossial failures? depending on the difficulty and price difference its either this or a Carada i think= http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.as...N-SCREEN-C104P

what do you guys think?

and btw, +2 for brain getting a mod spot

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by deewheezy

wow thanx brain, that all makes much more sense now and ive made a few decisions.

a) i'd rather have one screen that can do it all (i.e. scope screen) and have white bars then waste image hieght on a 16:9 with black bars.

b) definitely cant afford an anamorph lens and i can definitely live with for this, my first home theatre.

c) with my plan of using a curtain heavy curtains to frame the screen i can easily adjust them to cover the unused parts of the screen when not displaying a scoped image.

d) lastly, im really beginning to consider a DIY screen. never thought i would but it seems pretty feesable. that way i can have a cine-scoped, framed. "100+ screen without taking away from the budget of other slightly more crucial aspects. like DOPE def tech speakers!

can anyone help in the DIY screen department? links, success stories or even colossial failures? depending on the difficulty and price difference its either this or a Carada i think= http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.as...N-SCREEN-C104P

what do you guys think?

and btw, +2 for brain getting a mod spot

No problem--

Scope screens are very cool (being biased, of course)-- I do think they provide a more immersive experience in your home theater. Human vision does tend to concentrate more on width than height. If you watch alot of scope material, it's the way to go.

The zoom method for a CIH (constant image height) system works just fine-- you just need to hone your technique of zooming/focusing/lens shifting. Some people claim to do this very quickly (seconds). A lens does have certain benefits, and some can be quite affordable (1k or so)-- I can point you in the right direction if you ever have the itch.

Using curtains for masking is a popular way of doing a CIH system-- it really lends a theater-like feel as that is how pro theaters do it. If you are looking for a system that you can purchase that is reasonably affordable, there is a guy who goes by Camarillo_Cinema on AVS that makes an automated masking system and curtains for CIH. See his website at: www.htiq.com

Unfortunately, most of the other side masking systems out there are very expensive.

As far as DIY screens go-- they can be done very professionally for not very much cost. The most popular materials are wood and aluminum frame. The guy I bought my screen from (Ruben at SMX) has a thread on how to make a screen frame for about $150 from frame materials you can buy from an art supply. You would then just staple or velcro screen material to the frame, and then hang it like a picture. The most popular screen material is probably BOC (black out cloth) that you can purchase from any fabric supply shop. You can also find a variety of screen materials out there on eBay, AVS, etc. Camarillo_Cinema's site above also sells a good screen material (Phifer SheerWeave)

Here's Ruben's thread: www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201
The DIY Screen section on AVS is also excellent: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=110

If you are not inclined towards carpentry, then the Carada screen with the brilliant white screen material is hard to beat at its price. From what I know, Carada's customer service is superb. A DaLite High Power is also reasonably affordable at your screen size (~$300 I think). The SMX proline screens (flat and curved) are also excellent, and reasonably affordable.

Hope this helps.

Again, thanks to you and the other fellas for your "nomination". I remain most flattered.

Cheers mate.

[Deciazulado]

If you're going to do a DIY screen with curtains or similar and use the zoom method, remember there are a few movies that are wider than 2.35/2.39/2.40 Scope, like the early CinemaScope 2.55 ones, and the UltraPanavision 2.75 ones like Battle of the Bulge (already on BD) and Ben Hur. Oh and the latest version of How The West Was Won seems is going to be 2.89 wide (I've seen it)

Something to keep in mind deciding the ultimate shape of your DIY screen (and if your wall width permits ). For 2.40 you need at least a 1.35x zoom range. If you go for filling a 2.55 screen, 1.44x, 2.75 = 1.55x zoom, and 2.90 = 1.63x zoom. Probably a little more, to be on the safety side, is good.

[The_Snowman]

Originally Posted by deewheezy

thanx snow, great advice! so ur lovin that epson huh?

a few questions though...

whats cinema scope?

what brand is your screen and could i have a link? and speaking of screens is the brand really that important? im sure there is if u compare a $400 screen and a $2000 one but im definitely trying to find the best bargain in the screen department looking for.

what are the dimensions of your room and how far is the couch from the screen?

btw what u did with the curtains and a fixed screen is scary because, except for a different color pallet, you have done EXACTLY what im planning! damn, thought i was special HA

CinemaScope - see the other who replied quicker than me!

My screen is in Australia, so probably not much help apart from the learning process (some great educational stuff there if you follow enough links) - see the MAJESTIC range at OZ Theatre Screens

The room is 6.3 meters by 4.4 meters, so about 21 feet by 14.5 feet; the lounge is 15 feet from the screen. I used the rule of thumb that says, "the maximum viewing angle should be 30 degrees from the seating position". To calculate the maximum screen width to give that 30 degree angle, divide the seating distance by 1.7, so for me 4.7 meters / 1.7 = 2.70 meter wide screen

The choices were the 16:9 125" screen at 2,768 x 1,557 cm. or 110" Scope screen at 2,956 x 1,334 cm - we took the 16:9 screen........... now, while we have this information, if someone can explain to me, what am I missing out on again?

The 16:9 movies fill the whole screen, the TV is 4:3 and over 100" and CinemaScope movies go the full width of the screen and there are black bars, top and bottom (which we do not notice) - all this without making any adjustments to the projector focus, zoom in or out, or vertical adjustment, nothing......... so, I mean, the screen is as wide as can fit the room, so do I have CinemaScope or not?

Hope it all goes well for you, yes, the curtains were my wife's idea (so easy to hide wiring ) and the ceiling is painted to match. And being able to use that A/V rack at the rear of the room makes so much sense to me; easy to connect the projector, no distracting lights in front of you while watching movies, we love the room, it is GREAT !!!

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by The_Snowman

...

The room is 6.3 meters by 4.4 meters, so about 21 feet by 14.5 feet; the lounge is 15 feet from the screen. I used the rule of thumb that says, "the maximum viewing angle should be 30 degrees from the seating position". To calculate the maximum screen width to give that 30 degree angle, divide the seating distance by 1.7, so for me 4.7 meters / 1.7 = 2.70 meter wide screen

The choices were the 16:9 125" screen at 2,768 x 1,557 cm. or 110" Scope screen at 2,956 x 1,334 cm - we took the 16:9 screen........... now, while we have this information, if someone can explain to me, what am I missing out on again?

The 16:9 movies fill the whole screen, the TV is 4:3 and over 100" and CinemaScope movies go the full width of the screen and there are black bars, top and bottom (which we do not notice) - all this without making any adjustments to the projector focus, zoom in or out, or vertical adjustment, nothing......... so, I mean, the screen is as wide as can fit the room, so do I have CinemaScope or not?

Hope it all goes well for you, yes, the curtains were my wife's idea (so easy to hide wiring ) and the ceiling is painted to match. And being able to use that A/V rack at the rear of the room makes so much sense to me; easy to connect the projector, no distracting lights in front of you while watching movies, we love the room, it is GREAT !!!

Snow--

Generally, Scope FP systems generally mean a CIH (constant image height) setup. Your setup is a typical 16:9-- the most common screen size with FP systems. What you gain with a scope system is additional width of the screen with the same height as your 16:9 picture.

Using your current CIW (constant image width) system, your letterboxed material covers an area of 2768cm x 1178cm. In a CIH system, your letterboxed material would cover an area of 3659cm x 1557cm (2.35:1), and, of course, your 1.85:1 material would cover the same 2768cm x 1557cm that your have now; hence, CIH.

That's the benefit of a CIH scope system: a wider, more immersive experience.

HTH

[theprophecy247]

go with epson, there pretty well known for them while sony is for lcds and pannys are for plasma, although any of them would be nice its like a win win

[w3bby]

Id get a deal on a JVC RS1 and call it a day
I see one for 2800 on avsforum.
I had the all the ones you are thinking of..the jvc is the winner!