2CH Audio Wishlist!

[Johnny Vinyl]

So much really good information from you guys!

Before I began I already had a good idea of what I was interested in, but like all of us...comfirmation or at least encouragement to know you're on the right track is always welcome.

In terms of speakers I'm definately going to really audition (with vinyl in hand) the DALI's and ML's. I'm also going to have a listen some more to the JM/Focal Lab line of speakers that I had a chance to audition a while back at another dealer. And I remembered liking them a lot.

As far as TT's are concerned, the VPI Scoutmaster, along with the Oracle are definate possibilities. But I also want to hear the famous or infamous Linn LP12 in it's various forms. I know richteer is not a fan of them (why is that?), but they have an excellent reputation and I would be remiss if I didn't at least consider them.

I am totally up in the air about Power/Pre/Integrated, but as I stated in a previous post, I'm inclined to consider, Bryston, SimAudio, YBA and McIntosh for now.

Sorry guys, girlfriend is coming over (I don't get to see her as much as I'd like), so I have to leave for now. Cooking a nice dinner...yes, cooking is another great passion of mine. It is, in fact, a very close second to my love for 2-channel audio.

Keep your comments, suggestions, links coming...

John

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

As far as TT's are concerned, the VPI Scoutmaster, along with the Oracle are definate possibilities. But I also want to hear the famous or infamous Linn LP12 in it's various forms. I know richteer is not a fan of them (why is that?), but they have an excellent reputation and I would be remiss if I didn't at least consider them.

You're right in thinking that you should at least audition the Linn LP 12. The reason why I'm not a huge fan of them is that have a distinct audio signature, which is not very neutral. Their proponants extoll their rhythm and pace virtues, but I prefer a front end that has a neutral, extended frequency response, as well as the timing aspect. In other words, I want it all! :-)

Also, with Linn you kinda have to buy into their philosphy, which means using a Linn arm and cartridge at least, and perhaps their amps and speakers too. Naim's stuff also historically paired well with Linn (and is why I tend to avoid their stuff too).

I am totally up in the air about Power/Pre/Integrated, but as I stated in a previous post, I'm inclined to consider, Bryston, SimAudio, YBA and McIntosh for now.

I'd definately got the pre/power route, because that makes future upgrades easier. You should definately add Audio Research to your list of amplifer manufacturers to consider. Also, you could also consider a preamp with a built in phonostage. That'd be one less box to worry about, and might save you some cash. For now, at least. My SP 9 has a very nice built in phono stage, but it isn't as good a separate one. Also, I'm aspiring after the ARC Ref 3 line stage, for which an external phono stage is a must. An ARC PH 7 plus Ref 3 line stage would be a formidable preamp combo, but with a combined list price of ~$16k, your budget would be eaten up by just those two! (After my speakers, a phono stage (and/or a new cartridge) is next on my shopping list. A PH 7 (using the SP 9 as line amp) is at the top of my list...)
[/QUOTE]

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by richteer

Also, with Linn you kinda have to buy into their philosphy, which means using a Linn arm and cartridge at least, and perhaps their amps and speakers too. Naim's stuff also historically paired well with Linn (and is why I tend to avoid their stuff too).

[/QUOTE]

The above is a concept I don't particularly want to buy into, and I can see why that is part of your reason for not been keen on Linn's LP12. If I'm going to spend 5G's on a TT setup, I certainly would want the option to choose whatever tonearm/cartridge combo is available. However, I will still go and audition it, as I might love their sound.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

The above is a concept I don't particularly want to buy into, and I can see why that is part of your reason for not been keen on Linn's LP12. If I'm going to spend 5G's on a TT setup, I certainly would want the option to choose whatever tonearm/cartridge combo is available. However, I will still go and audition it, as I might love their sound.

You might as well: you've nothing to lose, and as you say, you might love their sound!

[HDJK]

Just wanted to chime in regarding the LP12. I'm not sure what lead you to believe that you need to follow Linns Philosophy when buying one of their TTs. Can you elaborate?
I'm by no means an expert when it comes to TTs but I had no issues with the sound form our LP12 going through a Perraux Pre/phono and a Perraux amp. I found the sound to be very balanced on both the Linn speakers and my Klein&Hummel monitors.

I'm actually looking for a phono preamp (since the LP12 was moved to my studio and the Perraux is still doing its duty in our living room). Do you have a recommandation and a short explanation of why? I'd really appreciate it.

Sorry to the OP, I don't mean to hi-jack your thread, but since you're looking to get all of that, it might be interesting for you, too (even if LP12 specific).

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Sorry to the OP, I don't mean to hi-jack your thread, but since you're looking to get all of that, it might be interesting for you, too (even if LP12 specific).

No offense taken. In fact, the more I can learn the better I'll be able to decide on what componants to consider. As long as the conversation is within the parameters of this thread, feel free to post and quote.

Which version of the LP12 are you using?

[richteer]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Just wanted to chime in regarding the LP12. I'm not sure what lead you to believe that you need to follow Linns Philosophy when buying one of their TTs. Can you elaborate?

Sure. Linn's turntables aren't (or--to be totally fair--weren't the last time I listended to one which was a long time ago) neutral. They have a distinct set of colourations. The more coloured one or more components of one's system is, the more the others have to be chosen for how they balance those colourations. Linn's amps and speakers were designed/voiced using their turntable (and why not?!), so it stands to reason that they work well together. Linn's proponents have long espoused their "pace, rhythm, and timing" aspects, with tonal neutrality taking a back seat.

That's OK, provided one knows this before hand and evaluates them with that in mind. Different horses for different courses, and all that.

Now me, I want a neutral, extended frequency range, but I also want components that capture the elusive musicality part of audio reproduction.

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to TTs but I had no issues with the sound form our LP12 going through a Perraux Pre/phono and a Perraux amp. I found the sound to be very balanced on both the Linn speakers and my Klein&Hummel monitors.

If you like what you hear, power to you! But I'd be interested in what you thought of a truely neutral set up...

I'm actually looking for a phono preamp (since the LP12 was moved to my studio and the Perraux is still doing its duty in our living room). Do you have a recommandation and a short explanation of why? I'd really appreciate it.

What budget do you have in mind, and what turntable/arm/cartridge will you be using with it? I made some recommendations in the 2Channel setup thread. BTW, if you've moved your LP12 (and maybe even if you haven't), you might want to get it checked and tuned. Suspended turntables need the occassional maintenance to the keep them just so.

[HDJK]

I didn't know that about Linn.

Linn's amps and speakers were designed/voiced using their turntable (and why not?!), so it stands to reason that they work well together.

So you're saying the can sound neutral, but only when paired with their amps and speakers?

Now me, I want a neutral, extended frequency range, but I also want components that capture the elusive musicality part of audio reproduction.

Me too And the latter part is what I think the LP12 does really well.

The neutrality part is harder to distinguish, because I don't have any way to compare. CDs cannot be used, because of the obvious differences and I don't have access to another TT in my house.

B.t.w., my wife bought the LP12 before we met, so I wasn't out 'shopping' for a TT myself.

...
If you like what you hear, power to you! But I'd be interested in what you thought of a truely neutral set up...

That is definitely my overall goal, even though a true flat frequeny response is a myth. Just turn your head a couple of degrees or move it a couple of inches and your FR curve has changed. We can get close and since I do some engineering work on the side it is my job to get the most neutral system my budget allows; otherwise my mixes won't translate well on other systems.

But when I kick back and power on the TT I'm in a totally different mood, so I can live with minor drawbacks in 'neutrality'.

What budget do you have in mind, and what turntable/arm/cartridge will you be using with it? I made some recommendations in the 2Channel setup thread. BTW, if you've moved your LP12 (and maybe even if you haven't), you might want to get it checked and tuned. Suspended turntables need the occassional maintenance to the keep them just so.

Budget will be 750$ to 1000$ max. I really don't have the time that often to enjoy vinyl, so anything above that would be overkill.
The tonearm is their entry level model (I forgot the name) with a MM cartridge.

I'll check the other thread you mentioned and when I find the time I will have the LP12 checked.


Thanks a lot for your input

[richteer]

Originally Posted by HDJK

I didn't know that about Linn.

To be fair, they are a British (Scottish, actually) company, so they tend (or tended to) to get more coverage in the audio press on that side of the pond.

So you're saying the can sound neutral, but only when paired with their amps and speakers?

Yep. Perhaps mated with other amps/speakers too, but your job will be harder. However, in my (limited) experience, the frequecy range was not very extended (even though it was somewhat neutral).

Me too And the latter part is what I think the LP12 does really well.

Yep, the LP12 is renowned for its "musicality". That's probably why it's been around for so long, despite its shortcomings in other areas.

Budget will be 750$ to 1000$ max. I really don't have the time that often to enjoy vinyl, so anything above that would be overkill.
The tonearm is their entry level model (I forgot the name) with a MM cartridge.

The name Akito rings a bell; dunno if that was their entry level tone arm. The Ittok, IIRC, was a more up market offering.

Thanks a lot for your input

My pleasure!

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by John72953

...
Which version of the LP12 are you using?

We have the Sondek LP12.

Originally Posted by richteer

...
The name Akito rings a bell; dunno if that was their entry level tone arm. The Ittok, IIRC, was a more up market offering.

Akito, that's the one.

By the way, I couldn't find the 2 channel setup thread.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by HDJK

By the way, I couldn't find the 2 channel setup thread.

My apologies; we're in the thread I was referring to...

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by richteer

My apologies; we're in the thread I was referring to...

So do you have a recommandation for me, my Akito with MM cartridge and some 750$ to 1000$?

TIA

[richteer]

Originally Posted by HDJK

So do you have a recommandation for me, my Akito with MM cartridge and some 750$ to 1000$?

TIA

There are a few, but the $1k Sutherland Ph3D should be near the top of your list. Some others are the Lehman Balck Cube, Sim Moon 3.5(?), and a couple of other tube-based ones.

[HDJK]

The Sutherland sure 'reads' tempting. But there is no mention of moving magnet or moving coil...

The Clearaudio and the Rogue Audio caught my attention as well. Both are MM and MC capable.
And I remember liking Creek's stuff as well.

Do you have any experience with the three?

I promise, it will be the last time I bug you (in this thread at least ).

Thanks.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by HDJK

The Sutherland sure 'reads' tempting. But there is no mention of moving magnet or moving coil...

The Clearaudio and the Rogue Audio caught my attention as well. Both are MM and MC capable.
And I remember liking Creek's stuff as well.

Do you have any experience with the three?

I promise, it will be the last time I bug you (in this thread at least ).

Thanks.

The Sutherland is both MC and MM capable. No experience with the other brands you mentioned, but Rogue Audio and Clearaudio have good reps, so they're definitely worth checking out.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by HDJK

The Sutherland sure 'reads' tempting. But there is no mention of moving magnet or moving coil...

The Clearaudio and the Rogue Audio caught my attention as well. Both are MM and MC capable.
And I remember liking Creek's stuff as well.

Do you have any experience with the three?

I promise, it will be the last time I bug you (in this thread at least ).

Thanks.

I know squat from phono stages, but the dealer I purchased my Modwright from specializes in phono gear and while we were shooting the audio breeze, he commented that the Vacuum State JLTI was simply phenomenal, easily besting gear costing significantly more. It's more expensive than the three you mention, but not exorbitantly so and perhaps something to consider. Here's the dealer's ad on A-gon.

and the best part........Vacuum State is located in Schaffhausen, Switzerland. I'm sure you can find it locally, if you wish.

[HDJK]

^^ I will defintely check it out

Thanks a lot to the both of you!

[Johnny Vinyl]

I've been doing a lot of research as you can well imagine, because this is a major project for me. And although I haven't listened to every conceivable equipment combination that is out there (an impossible task), I think I have decided on a TT.

I am quite sure I am going to go with the VPI - ARIES-3/JMW-9, but I'm not sure about the cartridge, although one of the higher end GRADO's is a consideration as I'm familiar with it's characteristics. I thought long and hard about the Oracle Delphi, but it's out of my league right now. I think spending any money I saved on a better cartridge and a seperate phono stage would be a wiser choice.

To the analog audiophiles out there...I need your help. I don't want to stick with GRADO just because I'm familiar with them. But since I can't listen to most of what is out there (or even a fraction), I would love to hear your opinion on some other cartridge manufacturer's products and if they match well with the VPI I'm comtemplating on getting.

My musical tastes are varied, but I find when I listen to Jazz, Blues and Classical that I am most immersed in the sound. I don't know if that helps, but I thought it was important enough to mention.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

I am quite sure I am going to go with the VPI - ARIES-3/JMW-9, but I'm not sure about the cartridge, although one of the higher end GRADO's is a consideration as I'm familiar with it's characteristics. I thought long and hard about the Oracle Delphi, but it's out of my league right now. I think spending any money I saved on a better cartridge and a seperate phono stage would be a wiser choice.

To the analog audiophiles out there...I need your help. I don't want to stick with GRADO just because I'm familiar with them. But since I can't listen to most of what is out there (or even a fraction), I would love to hear your opinion on some other cartridge manufacturer's products and if they match well with the VPI I'm comtemplating on getting.

Congrats on your decision! What sort of budget do you have in mind your cartridge and phonostage?

The only thing I would say about the Delphi is that it is a great match for SME's tonearms, and tonearms don't get much better than that. An Oracle Delphi + SME Series V would be a pretty formidable front end...

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by richteer

Congrats on your decision! What sort of budget do you have in mind your cartridge and phonostage?

Since I paid $400 for the Grado Platinum on my RR TT I think a budget of about $800-$1,000 for one mounted on the VPI is a good budget. I'm not so sure about the budget for the Phono Stage and I'll have to do more research. Unless I'm going to hear a significant difference, I'd like to keep this as budget-friendly as possible. But do eductate me though!

Originally Posted by richteer

The only thing I would say about the Delphi is that it is a great match for SME's tonearms, and tonearms don't get much better than that. An Oracle Delphi + SME Series V would be a pretty formidable front end...

I've read that as well, however, at $5,000 for the Oracle table, I would now be looking at $7-8000 for the TT alone and that is a bit much. I don't want the total budget to exceed $5-6,000 as a maximum. The VPI will accomplish that.