Why is there grain? - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

Windows V · 12-14-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Nah. Just doesn't look film-like. Makes it seem like you are watching some TV show.

That's just an opinion, and only because you're so used to seeing film grain. I'm sure in the 60s a whole bunch of film buffs were moaning about the advent of movies in colour.

Sky_Captain · 12-14-2008, 05:14 PM

Does this bloody forum just go around in circles?

JJ · 12-14-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky_Captain

Does this bloody forum just go around in circles?

I can't believe this is being discussed again, honestly.

Lucy Diamond · 12-14-2008, 05:43 PM

Beating a dead horse... bringing up/asking something that has been discussed a thousand times before

Sussudio · 12-14-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

I can't believe this is being discussed again, honestly.

i cant believe the OP thinks this hasn't been discussed on this forum yet.

xander · 12-14-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouBlu

i cant believe the OP thinks this hasn't been discussed on this forum yet.

Best question never asked, right?? Right???

J. J. Hunsecker · 12-14-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows V

I'm sure in the 60s a whole bunch of film buffs were moaning about the advent of movies in colour.

Who are you talking about? Color film was used in movies as far back as the 20's! (There is a scene in color in Phantom of the Opera [1925].) Color film was a regular staple of movies in the 30's (in glorious Technicolor!), and black and white film stock was still in use throughout the 60's.

quexos · 12-14-2008, 11:21 PM

Sometimes grain is intended like in 300, other times I don't know why it is there like the first Harry Potter BD and others.

Meeklo · 12-15-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouBlu

i cant believe the OP thinks this hasn't been discussed on this forum yet.

This is what happens when the OP gets drunk while watching a bluray...

JJ · 12-15-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeklo

This is what happens when the OP gets drunk while watching a bluray...

LOL! Fully excused then, my good sir! You did make the thread at 3:30 AM!

Sussudio · 12-15-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeklo

This is what happens when the OP gets drunk while watching a bluray...

dadkins · 12-15-2008, 04:11 AM

90% of all Blu-ray discs have had DNR used on them... get over it!

Alan A · 12-15-2008, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Best question I have yet to see on this forum...why do some movies have grain.

I was led to believe that movies made within the past 2 years would be shot using cameras that would provide a perfect HD picture yet I haven't seen a movie (except for The Dark Knight, check my collection as to which movies I've seen on bluray) that didn't have some grain to it.

With modern technology, you'd think they'd be able to greatly reduce, if even eliminate, grain.

Mods...if you feel the need to move this thread, please let it sit here for a few days as this is the most popular topic forum and I would like the most responses as possible.

Film has grain, grain is good, film is good
ever see a movie in a theater you will see film grain

Mr. HiDef · 12-15-2008, 03:39 PM

i dont know if anyone posted this article but its pretty interesting about picture grain and how the world is going digital

http://hometheatersound.com/editorial.shtml

CptGreedle · 12-15-2008, 04:08 PM

Heck... even digital camera add digital grain to the image.
For digital cameras, it works like this:
Back in the day, people were trying to find out how to make digital audio work. They had adjusted the audio to be theoretically perfect, but in actuality it was cutting out all the quiet hisses and sounds. In fact, the mics were not picking up these sounds at all, and huge parts of the music went missing. So they copied the existing analog technologies and added something called dither to the sound, sort of artificial noise. As soon as they did this, the mics picked up everything.
Video is the same but worse. Without the dither, or grain, of the image, the subtle details would be lost. The darks would drop out to pure black, the lights would blow out to pure white, skin tones look plastic and fake, and the image looses tons of detail.
So by adding digital grain, or digital noise, they can pick up the subtle details in the image that are otherwise lost.
With movies like Pan's Labyrinth, they used digital noise reduction (DNR) to remove the grain. The result... one of the most disappointing Blu-ray releases ever. Without the grain, the movie looks no better, even worse, than a standard DVD.
Even photographs on magazines and such use grain. I work with MUCH higher quality images than Blu-ray has, since I work with National Geographic prints, each file is often 50-200 MB. An image in HD on a Blu-ray is only 6MB. (Not that it isn't amazing quality, but it is video and has more to deal with than a photograph). And all NGS pictures have grain.
The only movies you will find without grain AND still look great, are CG movies. With these, there is no film involved, and no live action. Every subtle detail can be managed manually, and perfected by hand. No grain needed for Cars or Ratatouille.

Grain is good. LONG LIVE THE GRAIN!

saginawjuggalo · 12-15-2008, 05:23 PM

I rated this thread one star because of the OP's retarded questions

jasontkelley1746 · 12-15-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Wow... yes, this question has been asked over and over and over and over and over again on this forum. And, although I acknowledge the presence of film grain and can appreciate its function, I desperately look forward to the day when filmmakers start using digital cameras with hard drives instead of film as their capture method. I want the image to be as life-like as possible to the extent that my television screen LITERALLY seems like a single pane of glass between my living room and the world in which the film is taking place.

I WANT THAT SOOOOO BAD!!!

+1 exactly my thoughts
all these film guru's get so angry when people don't like grain in all there films.
I also want my tv to look like I am looking through a window into another world.

Sky_Captain · 12-15-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasontkelley1746

+1 exactly my thoughts
all these film guru's get so angry when people don't like grain in all there films.
I also want my tv to look like I am looking through a window into another world.

Well look out your window, then. Leave the rest of us in peace.

CptGreedle · 12-15-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadkins

90% of all Blu-ray discs have had DNR used on them... get over it!

I'd like to see a link that shows that.
Somehow I doubt it. Or if any was used it was miniscule since certain titles, like Pan's Labyrinth and Patton, have too much DNR and it clearly shows.

Red Hood · 12-15-2008, 06:06 PM

Grain and I are best friends.

12-15-2008, 05:23 PM	#36
saginawjuggalo Power Member Top contributor Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Saginaw, Michigan 4K collection:167 Blu-ray collection:2058 DVD collection:85 iTunes collection:1 Trading Score:2	Because grain is in film and removing it removes DETAIL!! I rated this thread one star because of the OP's retarded questions

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12-14-2008, 05:14 PM	#22
Sky_Captain Blu-ray Duke Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:17	Does this bloody forum just go around in circles?

12-14-2008, 05:43 PM	#24
Lucy Diamond Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2008 Location:The Tomb of Annihilation 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Digital collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:3

12-14-2008, 11:21 PM	#28
quexos Banned Member since:May 2007 Location:Brussels, Belgium	Sometimes grain is intended like in 300, other times I don't know why it is there like the first Harry Potter BD and others.

12-15-2008, 04:11 AM	#32
dadkins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Hercules, CA Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:2	90% of all Blu-ray discs have had DNR used on them... get over it!

12-15-2008, 03:39 PM	#34
Mr. HiDef Expert Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Fox Lake IL Blu-ray collection:89	i dont know if anyone posted this article but its pretty interesting about picture grain and how the world is going digital http://hometheatersound.com/editorial.shtml

12-15-2008, 04:08 PM	#35
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Heck... even digital camera add digital grain to the image. For digital cameras, it works like this: Back in the day, people were trying to find out how to make digital audio work. They had adjusted the audio to be theoretically perfect, but in actuality it was cutting out all the quiet hisses and sounds. In fact, the mics were not picking up these sounds at all, and huge parts of the music went missing. So they copied the existing analog technologies and added something called dither to the sound, sort of artificial noise. As soon as they did this, the mics picked up everything. Video is the same but worse. Without the dither, or grain, of the image, the subtle details would be lost. The darks would drop out to pure black, the lights would blow out to pure white, skin tones look plastic and fake, and the image looses tons of detail. So by adding digital grain, or digital noise, they can pick up the subtle details in the image that are otherwise lost. With movies like Pan's Labyrinth, they used digital noise reduction (DNR) to remove the grain. The result... one of the most disappointing Blu-ray releases ever. Without the grain, the movie looks no better, even worse, than a standard DVD. Even photographs on magazines and such use grain. I work with MUCH higher quality images than Blu-ray has, since I work with National Geographic prints, each file is often 50-200 MB. An image in HD on a Blu-ray is only 6MB. (Not that it isn't amazing quality, but it is video and has more to deal with than a photograph). And all NGS pictures have grain. The only movies you will find without grain AND still look great, are CG movies. With these, there is no film involved, and no live action. Every subtle detail can be managed manually, and perfected by hand. No grain needed for Cars or Ratatouille. Grain is good. LONG LIVE THE GRAIN!

12-15-2008, 06:06 PM	#40
Red Hood Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2008 Blu-ray collection:33	Grain and I are best friends.

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