Titanic 4K UHD (1997)

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There's something else funky going on with T2's restored 2D versions though, the framing is different between the 1080p and 4K versions and there's at least one bit of grading weirdness in one that isn't in the other. That's also where the sloppiness of the 2D versions feels like an afterthought, that they didn't even decide on one fixed 2D master to generate the 4K and 1080p versions from.

I actually did notice the framing difference between the 4K and remastered 1080p presentations and was always confused about it because they're supposed to be the same master all around, iirc it was the remastered 1080p version was shifted up a bit compared to the 4K disk which was shifted downward

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Yea I knew the Ghostbusters audio was messed up somehow I just didn't know how exactly (also apparently The Dark Crystal has screwed up audio but not as bad as before the Labyrinth's stereo track isn't legit though idk how it isn't)

How does phase being out of sync work?

With 2.0 LtRt surround mixes they 'matrix' four channels into two by recording the centre and surround channel out of phase and mix them equally across the front left and right channels which are in phase. The surround decoder applies the necessary processing to extract the out of phase information and route it to the correct channels, the apparent problem with the GB 2.0 UHD mixes is that their phase is basically inverted, so when surround decoding is used it's sending the left and right channels to the centre and surrounds and vice versa! What a mistake-a to make! And such a bizarre mistake too, there was no such problem on the 2.0 mixes on the re-remastered Blu-rays.

BUT it's not something I'll lose sleep over as the 5.1 still sounds like Ghostbusters to me. The Atmos tracks are even kinda fun, they play around with the sound design in logical ways whilst also respecting the original. If only all remixes were so faithful.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

With 2.0 LtRt surround mixes they 'matrix' four channels into two by recording the centre and surround channel out of phase and mix them equally across the front left and right channels which are in phase. The surround decoder applies the necessary processing to extract the out of phase information and route it to the correct channels, the apparent problem with the GB 2.0 UHD mixes is that their phase is basically inverted, so when surround decoding is used it's sending the left and right channels to the centre and surrounds and vice versa! What a mistake-a to make! And such a bizarre mistake too, there was no such problem on the 2.0 mixes on the re-remastered Blu-rays.

BUT it's not something I'll lose sleep over as the 5.1 still sounds like Ghostbusters to me. The Atmos tracks are even kinda fun, they play around with the sound design in logical ways whilst also respecting the original. If only all remixes were so faithful.

Ghostbusters 1 and 2 are just movies that work with surround mixes like that, similar to the original Star Wars trilogy (which is one reason why I detest the mono mixes, despite still being preservation worthy for their differences), movies that were made to be immersive and fun, if you condense them to mono, it just sorta sucks the life out of the mixes, I can't really describe why it does but the Star Wars mono mixes feel lifeless to me (and I'm sure the OG Ghostbusters had a few mono prints made for the dollar theaters and they too would sound lifeless by comparison)

[starmike]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Ghostbusters 1 and 2 are just movies that work with surround mixes like that, similar to the original Star Wars trilogy (which is one reason why I detest the mono mixes, despite still being preservation worthy for their differences), movies that were made to be immersive and fun, if you condense them to mono, it just sorta sucks the life out of the mixes, I can't really describe why it does but those mono mixes feel lifeless to me (and I'm sure the OG Ghostbusters had a few mono prints made for the dollar theaters)

I think they stopped making mono-specific mixes after the Excalibur issue (1981) where they found that they didn't have to do that.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

You hope we all die a horrible death?

Definition of titanic
(adjective): of great force or power
synonyms: big, large
above average in size or number or quantity or magnitude or extent

Lots of health, wealth and happiness (love, peace).

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Definition of titanic
(adjective): of great force or power
synonyms: big, large
above average in size or number or quantity or magnitude or extent

Lots of health, wealth and happiness (love, peace).

Do you know of Dr. Freud, LordoftheRings? His ideas about the male preoccupation with size might be of particular interest to you.

[LordoftheRings]

You ^ you are truly sick. Go get your head fixed.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

You ^ you are truly sick. Go get your head fixed.

It was a quote from the movie. In case you didn't know lol

[Geoff D]

[starmike]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Do you know of Dr. Freud, LordoftheRings? His ideas about the male preoccupation with size might be of particular interest to you.

Who is this Freud? Is he a member here?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

It was a quote from the movie. In case you didn't know lol

Bullshit; LordoftheRings quote my ass.

[Matt89]

....it's a quote from Titanic....

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Ghostbusters 1 and 2 are just movies that work with surround mixes like that, similar to the original Star Wars trilogy (which is one reason why I detest the mono mixes, despite still being preservation worthy for their differences), movies that were made to be immersive and fun, if you condense them to mono, it just sorta sucks the life out of the mixes, I can't really describe why it does but the Star Wars mono mixes feel lifeless to me (and I'm sure the OG Ghostbusters had a few mono prints made for the dollar theaters and they too would sound lifeless by comparison)

I’m the opposite. The mono for Star Wars has become my favorite mix and is one of if not the best single channel mix ever done. It’s a work of art for single channel and was intended as the definitive final mix. Despite not having the multichannel experience or sonic technical breakthroughs it’s just as alive in different ways. The music is mixed louder and more like a classical studio era film so the mono has at points the feeling I’d say of Captain Blood or The Sea Hawk.
A well done mono or standard stereo mix can be just as engaging as full multichannel if the mix is good and it’s being properly presented.

It did take a while for everyone to get on board with Dolby Stereo in terms of knowing how to mix for multichannel correctly. The Lucasfilm titles were always designed to ensure all the important info was in the stereo mains just in case it was a bad theater or the matrixing crapped out. Ben Burtt discussed this once in an old interview somewhere about how he designed the Dolby Stereo of ESB.
But everyone else usually didn’t pay so much attention and mono hung around. By 1983/4ish I’d say the kinks had been worked out in terms of all films mostly having solid matrix stereo. At this point Lucasfilm stopped doing custom mono mixes as Dolby Stereo was the established new standard.
In that short time period few films could compete with Star Wars, ESB, Raiders, ROTJ and Temple sonically and especially in multichannel. The one Dolby Stereo track I’ve found that gives them a run for their money is Flash Gordon-because that film pushed the boundaries sonically to such a degree that that mix still makes me deliriously happy….and we finally got it back on the 4K master only to have Studio Canal not do it right and so there’s dialog leakage…grrr.

I’m still determined to hear the whole Raiders mono someday. The samples and differences I’ve heard are so interesting.
Later films like Ghostbusters likely had mono folddowns for 16mm and tv and folddowns like these if unsupervised would probably sound a bit dull and flat in comparison. It’s odd that matrix tracks getting flipped happens occasionally. Some LDs have this too. Others have no center lock so you get dialogue everywhere behind you.

[jvonl]

Well, great start to the new year...

[starmike]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

A well done mono or standard stereo mix can be just as engaging as full multichannel if the mix is good and it’s being properly presented.

Not sure I agree with this. I grew up at a time when mono and multichannel were duking it out and let me tell you, hearing Star Wars in 70mm 6-track when you're used to mono was a revelation. With mono you're just hearing echoes off the back wall for any kind of depth. One of the theaters I worked at was mono only and let me tell ya, it was pretty awful listening to movies you knew could sound better playing off a mono system. I might have a recording from that theater of how it sounded.

EDIT: maybe you mean the fidelity could be as good. Discrete channels can't be beat by mono, though.

[punisher]

I saw Star Wars at a drive in movie with one of those speakers hanging from the window and survived..lol

Double feature included the 1953 War of the Worlds....

[Rolling Dice]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Do you know of Dr. Freud, LordoftheRings? His ideas about the male preoccupation with size might be of particular interest to you.

That made me chuckle, but the reply you got made me laugh out loud.

I don't know about you, but I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the White Star Line about all of this.

[LordoftheRings]

Titanic New Year

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

I’m the opposite. The mono for Star Wars has become my favorite mix and is one of if not the best single channel mix ever done. It’s a work of art for single channel and was intended as the definitive final mix. Despite not having the multichannel experience or sonic technical breakthroughs it’s just as alive in different ways. The music is mixed louder and more like a classical studio era film so the mono has at points the feeling I’d say of Captain Blood or The Sea Hawk.
A well done mono or standard stereo mix can be just as engaging as full multichannel if the mix is good and it’s being properly presented.

It did take a while for everyone to get on board with Dolby Stereo in terms of knowing how to mix for multichannel correctly. The Lucasfilm titles were always designed to ensure all the important info was in the stereo mains just in case it was a bad theater or the matrixing crapped out. Ben Burtt discussed this once in an old interview somewhere about how he designed the Dolby Stereo of ESB.
But everyone else usually didn’t pay so much attention and mono hung around. By 1983/4ish I’d say the kinks had been worked out in terms of all films mostly having solid matrix stereo. At this point Lucasfilm stopped doing custom mono mixes as Dolby Stereo was the established new standard.
In that short time period few films could compete with Star Wars, ESB, Raiders, ROTJ and Temple sonically and especially in multichannel. The one Dolby Stereo track I’ve found that gives them a run for their money is Flash Gordon-because that film pushed the boundaries sonically to such a degree that that mix still makes me deliriously happy….and we finally got it back on the 4K master only to have Studio Canal not do it right and so there’s dialog leakage…grrr.

I’m still determined to hear the whole Raiders mono someday. The samples and differences I’ve heard are so interesting.
Later films like Ghostbusters likely had mono folddowns for 16mm and tv and folddowns like these if unsupervised would probably sound a bit dull and flat in comparison. It’s odd that matrix tracks getting flipped happens occasionally. Some LDs have this too. Others have no center lock so you get dialogue everywhere behind you.

I feel the same.
For any 60s-70s-80s movie I prefer the original mono/stereo mix over any 5.1 conversion, such as the Bond movies, Star Wars Trilogy (the original Italian dub mono mixes), ALIEN, The Godfather, Scarface, Terminator (1984) and many other flicks.

Whenever it's possible, I always choose the original theatrical mix over any 5.1/Atmos upmix.
I feel Atmos it's kind of a "gimmick" for movies that were released in theaters in mono/stereo.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by Matt89

....it's a quote from Titanic....

Exactly, from Rose to Mr Ismay, nonetheless
It tells you how the character of Rose was much more "mature" and intelligent than most billionaires on that ship were (including Cal).