The Avatar Blu-ray Release Thread

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

Ok, I
1) Liked Avatar , its #3 on my list of my all time favorite movies
2) It achieved critical praise as well. 80%+ rating on rotten tomatoes foran action flick is very and very impressive.
3) It sucsseded in box office intakes.

Following from this, its a milestone movie at least for me. My #1 title is T2, judgment day, and #2 is Ratatouille, and they are both not 60 year old movies.
Time is not the most relevant fcator for me in making a desision weather a movie is good or not. I liked T2 10 years, and I still like it. I didnt go crazy for Gone with the wind 15 years ago, I will not in 50 years either.

P.S. Time is a very relevant, tricky measure in Universe, and you should be very carefull in integating time into your decisions.

As I said, it's a box office smash, no doubt about it. I disagre on the milestone. You can't call something a milestone 10 minutes (10 months ) after it came out no matter how much you are in love with the movie. In 10 years Avatar might not even make you top 20, I know very well because I had movies that I loved 20 years ago that no longer affect me as much because willing or not, I have change. Oh I know very well a lot of people will come down on me and say "I do not change, I am the same" but the fact of the matter is, time is the great judge. Like I said, let's wait just two years and see how it will be. Better yet and see what will happen before then end of this year with Inception who could become the new "GREATEST THING EVER " of the next 5 minutes

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by kemcha

DRS, that's all someone else could have said and this argument would have stopped long ago. The problem is that everyone is equating "money" with being success. That's not true. Where it concerns the stockholders of the 20th Century Fox, it sure is a success because they make money from the financial success of the movie.

However, in the grand scheme of things, Avatar is not a success. Gone With the Wind, E.T., The Godfather, Star Wars, Mary Poppins, Wizard of Oz ... these movies were largely successful and have become a part of the Americana of the United States. It's part of our cultural identity.

Avatar does not share this same impact on our culture. 10 years from now, Avatar will just become a footnote in history because it still won't be considered a true movie classic. When you compare this movie against such other classics as Dirty Harry, Kelly's Heroes, The Karate Kid (the original), the James Bond series, Superman the Movie and many others ... Avatar just doesn't share those same Amaerica roots as these films that I've mentioned.

Also, saying that Avatar made 2.8 billion worldwide ... what about Gone with the Wind and Star Wars, when you add those ticket sales, Avatar still comes out on bottom.

There is one think that needs to be absolutely clear here.
I dont really belong to "american" cultural identity as I am a very new immigrant here, and I will provide you with another perspective.
Do you want to know the ugly truth?

Very few people of general population ouside USA (1 in 100) know or have ever heard about Gone With The Wind, American version of Wizard Of Oz, Dirty Hary and so on.

Very many people in Europe, Middle Asia know about masterpicies of cinema you dont know even exist that are on par or better than GWTW.

So, you were talking about value that Avatar gave to Ameican culture is less han GWTH. Maybe. Big Maybe.
But guess what, America is not all the world. Its effectively less than 10% of the world.

So, while nobody knows about GWTW outside USA, everyone knows avatar. Thats an advantage in terms of cultral value to the world, not USA IMO, and that is more important IMO as well.

See, I dont want to say that Masterpieces of Russian, French cinema are world culture value, they are local values, as is GWTW.

All this was to say that in Gross world terms, which is more important, Avatar represents much more of a cultural value than GWTW.

[kemcha]

.

[42041]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Avatar does not share this same impact on our culture. 10 years from now, Avatar will just become a footnote in history because it still won't be considered a true movie classic. When you compare this movie against such other classics as Dirty Harry, Kelly's Heroes, The Karate Kid (the original), the James Bond series, Superman the Movie and many others ... Avatar just doesn't share those same Amaerica roots as these films that I've mentioned

Those are classics? Good fun maybe, hardly "great cinema". Avatar is certainly on the same level.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

All this was to say that in Gross world terms, which is more important, Avatar represents much more of a cultural value than GWTW.

But once again that is just a last 5 minutes thing. We live in a global world so of course a giant movie like Avatar using the perfect formula and setup in a way to please a huge market will make a giant clash at the box office, something that could not happen 70 years ago, a much different world. But once again that does not translate to being a milestone. In this day and age people go from one thing to another in matters of minutes. Last week it was Britney Spears, remember she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Where is she now? These days it's Miley...what will it be tomorrow? Just two years ago it was The Dark Knight, now it's Avatar. How long will Avatar be what it is now? Another 10 months, another 3 years? Like I said, you need time to know this.

[Beast]

I don't agree with half of that AFI list. So it's a subjective thing.

[kemcha]

42041, how could you say that the movies I listed aren't considered "great cinema." What the hell is going on here? Communists on the forum designed to bring down American culture?

Excuse the tone of my statement, but, the movies I listed, Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, Star Wars, E.T., Wizard of Oz, these are all part of Americana and American's Film History. Avatar hasn't had the luxury of time to estblish its roots in Americana to boast these kind of statements.

[holdfasthope]

I wish people could see past the hype surrounding the visual effects and who directed this. The movie was terrible... one-dimensional characters, boring story that's been told a hundred times before, and terrible acting.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

But once again that is just a last 5 minutes thing. We live in a global world so of course a giant movie like Avatar using the perfect formula and setup in a way to please a huge market will make a giant clash at the box office, something that could not happen 70 years ago, a much different world. But once again that does not translate to being a milestone. In this day and age people go from one thing to another in matters of minutes. Last week it was Britney Spears, remember she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Where is she now? These days it's Miley...what will it be tomorrow? Just two years ago it was The Dark Knight, now it's Avatar. How long will Avatar be what it is now? Another 10 months, another 3 years? Like I said, you need time to know this.

I understand what the cause of our disagreement is.
You dont like Avatar, and as a result are too critical to it. Notice that I never tried to be critical of GWTW.

One piece of advice though, talking in the simplest way possible as to justfy avatar is an epic movie I think you really shouldnt undersetimate James Cameroon. He is a Leonardo Da Vinchi of cinema.

His previous movie, Titanic, Aliens, Terminator 1,2 and so on are considered the Hallmarks of international cinema, dceades after their release.

This might give you a little bit of groung to make predictions how Avatar will be liked in say 20 years, if you really care about future.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by kemcha

42041, how could you say that the movies I listed aren't considered "great cinema." What the hell is going on here? Communists on the forum designed to bring down American culture?

Because everyone has different tastes. And what some people may like, others may hate.

Just because a movie is considered a classic by some people, doesn't mean it should be universally loved.

And outside of the U.S., some of those movies might not have the same impact.

Excuse the tone of my statement, but, the movies I listed, Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, Star Wars, E.T., Wizard of Oz, these are all part of Americana and American's Film History. Avatar hasn't had the luxury of time to estblish its roots in Americana to boast these kind of statements.

And?

Doesn't mean that people should blindly love them. I don't care much for GWTW and I loathe The Godfather, for example. Those other films you suggest are some of my favorites though.

[42041]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

one-dimensional characters, boring story that's been told a hundred times before, and terrible acting.

All true, yet it's still a great movie. Funny how that works.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by kemcha

42041, how could you say that the movies I listed aren't considered "great cinema." What the hell is going on here? Communists on the forum designed to bring down American culture?

Excuse the tone of my statement, but, the movies I listed, Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, Star Wars, E.T., Wizard of Oz, these are all part of Americana and American's Film History. Avatar hasn't had the luxury of time to estblish its roots in Americana to boast these kind of statements.

WTF.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

I wish people could see past the hype surrounding the visual effects and who directed this. The movie was terrible... one-dimensional characters, boring story that's been told a hundred times before, and terrible acting.

Trust me. I do see past the hype, the director, and the visual effects.

It's still one of my favorite movies of all time. And I've already watched it at least 20 times since it came out on Blu-Ray. Not since the Star Wars films have I watched a movie so many times so quickly. It's just such a stunning film. With a great story, great visuals, and some great acting. Everything about the film simply clicks.

Every story has been told countless times before. All that matters is how you put the elements together. And James Cameron delievered. It was certainly a nice treat after his last film, the snorefest Titanic.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

WTF.

Yeah, I was gonna rip into the communist comment. But just let it go.

Next they'll be telling us that we're also planning to sap and impurify all of their precious bodily fluids.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah, I was gonna rip into the communist comment. But just let it go.

Next they'll be telling us that we're also planning to sap and impurify all of their precious bodily fluids.

You know the differnce between us and them?

We dont tell that their movies suck or that we dont care about them even for respect purposes only, not talking about other things.

[kemcha]

I'm not saying that people should blindly love them. For me, I've never seen many of these great classics but they are part of our cultural identity. For anyone to dismiss these movies and say they are not great cinema is un-American.

It's like if I said that Affirmative Action is a blight on our country.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these films are a part of cultural identity and they are a part of American history. Avatar just lacks that presence in our culture. In 10 years, nobody will remember Avatar.

Oh, and it's not that I don't like Avatar, I think it's a step forward in Hollywood moviemaking. However, Avatar will never achieve the kind of notoriety that the films listed on AFI top 100 lists. It's one of those, what I call, 1-hit wonders. While it's made money for the studio, it will never be recognized as part of America's culture.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I'm not saying that people should blindly love them. For me, I've never seen many of these great classics but they are part of our cultural identity. For anyone to dismiss these movies and say they are not great cinema is un-American.

No. No it's not. It's a silly argument. I don't consider The Godfather great cinema.

I guess you better turn my name into the next "House Un-american Activities Committee".

Whether you want to believe it or not, these films are a part of cultural identity and they are a part of American history. Avatar just lacks that presence in our culture. In 10 years, nobody will remember Avatar.

I will. So will other people who love the film. That's kinda why we bought it and watch it.

Oh, and it's not that I don't like Avatar, I think it's a step forward in Hollywood moviemaking. However, Avatar will never achieve the kind of notoriety that the films listed on AFI top 100 lists. It's one of those, what I call, 1-hit wonders. While it's made money for the studio, it will never be recognized as part of America's culture.

Wait..... arn't you the person who claimed to have not even seen the film?

Or am I confusing you with someone else offering the same tired complaints.

And who cares if Avatar doesn't make the snobbish AFI 100 list. It doesn't diminish the film.

Half the films on that list I wouldn't consider recommending to anyone or even watching again.

[42041]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I'm not saying that people should blindly love them. For me, I've never seen many of these great classics but they are part of our cultural identity. For anyone to dismiss these movies and say they are not great cinema is un-American.

That's because Dirty Harry, James Bond, Star Wars, etc, try to do exactly what Avatar tries to do. Entertain. They are not art movies.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I'm not saying that people should blindly love them. For me, I've never seen many of these great classics but they are part of our cultural identity. For anyone to dismiss these movies and say they are not great cinema is un-American.

It's like if I said that Affirmative Action is a blight on our country.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these films are a part of cultural identity and they are a part of American history. Avatar just lacks that presence in our culture. In 10 years, nobody will remember Avatar.

Oh, and it's not that I don't like Avatar, I think it's a step forward in Hollywood moviemaking. However, Avatar will never achieve the kind of notoriety that the films listed on AFI top 100 lists. It's one of those, what I call, 1-hit wonders. While it's made money for the studio, it will never be recognized as part of America's culture.

Here is a quote of my last comment on which you supposedly commentd.

Very few people of general population ouside USA (1 in 100) know or have ever heard about Gone With The Wind, American version of Wizard Of Oz, Dirty Hary and so on.

Very many people in Europe, Middle Asia know about masterpicies of cinema you dont know even exist that are on par or better than GWTW.

So, you were talking about value that Avatar gave to Ameican culture is less han GWTH. Maybe. Big Maybe.
But guess what, America is not all the world. Its effectively less than 10% of the world.

So, while nobody knows about GWTW outside USA, everyone knows avatar. Thats an advantage in terms of cultral value to the world, not USA IMO, and that is more important IMO as well.


See, I dont want to say that Masterpieces of Russian, French cinema are world culture value, they are local values, as is GWTW.

All this was to say that in Gross world terms, which is more important, Avatar represents much more of a cultural value than GWTW.

So, were do you see here that I said anything bad about American Cinema.
I just said they represant local, small-scale cultural values, as are European and Asian masterpieces, and as a result, they dont represent as big worldide cultural value as Avatar, couse everyone knows Avatar.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

I understand what the cause of our disagreement is.
You dont like Avatar, and as a result are too critical to it. Notice that I never tried to be critical of GWTW.

One piece of advice though, talking in the simplest way possible as to justfy avatar is an epic movie I think you really shouldnt undersetimate James Cameroon. He is a Leonardo Da Vinchi of cinema.

His previous movie, Titanic, Aliens, Terminator 1,2 and so on are considered the Hallmarks of international cinema, dceades after their release.

This might give you a little bit of groung to make predictions how Avatar will be liked in say 20 years, if you really care about future.

Actually you got it all wrong. I do not mind Avatar, it does what it does well. In fact it's a typical James Cameron movie, using all of his good old formula to make a entertaining movie that can please a wide range of people using the newest tech the best way possible. What I disagre with is the HYPE for calling it the greatest movie ever. I love...no I adore Star Wars, it's my favorite movie of all time...note the difference "my favorite movie of all time". I would never make the claim that Star Wars is the greatest movie of all time because 30 years ago it destroyed everything else at the box office. What I do not like is the blindness that surround our society now a days going with "the greatest thing ever" for everything or anyone that is at the moment popular. There is a huge difference with being popular and being great. Popular does not equal great. As I keep saying, just two years ago The Dark Knight was for 90% of people the greatest movie ever. So now just 24 months later it's already forgotten and people have moved on to something else. That is what I dislike, this going from thread to thread claiming that what they just saw a few moments ago is the greatest thing in history. That is nothing but hyped and not greatest. Hype as no staying power. In fact I respect more Titanic then Avatar for the simple fact that it as not gone through this insane period that we have now that everything that is coming out, everything that win's championship, everything that is on radio or TV is the greatest thing ever.